Diablo® III

Leoric's Signet farming stories

See the spreadsheet I posted.

It's about finding the right balance, I guess. I personally don't want to have my blues have a chance of rolling at more than 50% of the time. For now, I lowered my MF to 200% unbuffed.
Where did you find this spreadsheet? The chance for legendary drop looks too high. If you check the diabloinc MF thread, the estimated chance for legendary is like .002 or something like that.


It's just made up numbers. Still, it shows that the higher the MF, the % increase of a legendary drop is lower than the increase % of a blue/yellow drop.
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Where did you find this spreadsheet? The chance for legendary drop looks too high. If you check the diabloinc MF thread, the estimated chance for legendary is like .002 or something like that.


It's just made up numbers. Still, it shows that the higher the MF, the % increase of a legendary drop is lower than the increase % of a blue/yellow drop.


Regardless, getting more blues doesn't reduce the number of legendaries.


Item quality is checked in the following order:

Legendary
6-affix rare
5-affix rare
4-affix rare
2-affix rare
1-affix rare
magic item
Using the above example, when your roll ‘misses’ a higher-level item quality, the item generator proceeds to the next lowest item quality in the chain (in this case, checking to see if you got a 6-affix rare, then checking for a 5-affix rare, and so on). Your magic find bonus applies to each roll. If the same monster has a 10% chance to drop a 5-affix rare item and you have 50% magic find, you now have a 15% chance to get a 5-affix rare item.


So every dropped item rolls to see if its legendary first. If it misses, it rolls for 6 stat and so on.
So your blue drops are items that failed the rolls for better quality.
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Where did you find this spreadsheet? The chance for legendary drop looks too high. If you check the diabloinc MF thread, the estimated chance for legendary is like .002 or something like that.


It's just made up numbers. Still, it shows that the higher the MF, the % increase of a legendary drop is lower than the increase % of a blue/yellow drop.
exactly that's what I was trying to say. The numbers on the spreadsheet for legendaries was too high but the concept is that the MF boost for legendaries barely moves to be noticeable but the more MF you add, the better and more significant the chances become for magic/rare items.

MF is like playing roulette and having a magnet or something attract it to the number and it works most of the time but could land somewhere else.
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It's just made up numbers. Still, it shows that the higher the MF, the % increase of a legendary drop is lower than the increase % of a blue/yellow drop.
exactly that's what I was trying to say. The numbers on the spreadsheet for legendaries was too high but the concept is that the MF boost for legendaries barely moves to be noticeable but the more MF you add, the better and more significant the chances become for magic/rare items.

MF is like playing roulette and having a magnet or something attract it to the number and it works most of the time but could land somewhere else.


except, higher quality item chance always rolls first.
More MF will NEVER mean getting more blues means you get less 6 stats or legendaries. Even though the base chance for a blue is higher than a legendary and gets multiplied, since it tries to roll best type first, it already failed the roll for a rare or a legendary if its rolling to see if its a blue or white item.
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08/30/2012 10:20 AMPosted by speedforce


MF increases your legendary droprate. Confirmed by Blizzard and proven with reasonable certainty through data collection.
You're not reading clearly. Legendary drop rates do increase, however magic/rare chances increase EVEN MORE. Magic/rares end up taking priority and you see less legendaries as a result.

MF is a way of taking some of the randomness in finding superior loot however the devs didn't account for legendaries. The boost to legendary drop rate through MF is like .01 per 50MF or .001. That's not enough to truly affect legendaries. However, MF increases rare and magic drop rates by a significant amount. Therefore with higher MF, it's rolling the dice on items and rares/magics are winning out.


You're not looking at it correctly.

Loot drops are determined by rolls that are done independently of one another, and in order:

1) Legendary/Set
2) 6 rare
3) 5 rare
4) 4 rare

etc
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/game/guide/items/equipment#item-quality

Item quality is checked in the following order:

Legendary
6-affix rare
5-affix rare
4-affix rare
2-affix rare
1-affix rare
magic item

Using the above example, when your roll ‘misses’ a higher-level item quality, the item generator proceeds to the next lowest item quality in the chain (in this case, checking to see if you got a 6-affix rare, then checking for a 5-affix rare, and so on). Your magic find bonus applies to each roll. If the same monster has a 10% chance to drop a 5-affix rare item and you have 50% magic find, you now have a 15% chance to get a 5-affix rare item.


If you have, say, a 0.01% chance of rolling a Legendary, and you have 300% MF, you will have a 0.04% chance of rolling a Legendary. Legendary rolls are checked first, ahead of rare and magic rolls. For the sake of argument, let's pretend you have enough magic find that your chance for a magic roll are 100%. That doesn't mean you'll never see rares or Legendaries. It simply means that, after missing your Legendary roll and then missing your rare rolls, you are guaranteed to hit the magic roll and never see white items.

TL:DR - Magic find = good.
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So every dropped item rolls to see if its legendary first. If it misses, it rolls for 6 stat and so on.
So your blue drops are items that failed the rolls for better quality.
Well here's the problem, the more MF you have, the more the bonus affects it's quality roll, causing it to fail the legendary check. So we look at it like this

Legendary .001%
Rare 6 - 4%
Rare 5 - 8%
Rare 4 - 12%
Magic - 24%

then lets say we have 100% MF, now it looks like

Legendary .004
Rare 6 - 12%
Rare 5 - 32%
Rare 4 - 48%
Magic - 96%

So when you look at 0 MF vs 100MF, you can see that legendaries don't really change in actual drop chance but rares and magics change significantly.
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So every dropped item rolls to see if its legendary first. If it misses, it rolls for 6 stat and so on.
So your blue drops are items that failed the rolls for better quality.
Well here's the problem, the more MF you have, the more the bonus affects it's quality roll, causing it to fail the legendary check. So we look at it like this

Legendary .001%
Rare 6 - 4%
Rare 5 - 8%
Rare 4 - 12%
Magic - 24%

then lets say we have 100% MF, now it looks like

Legendary .004
Rare 6 - 12%
Rare 5 - 32%
Rare 4 - 48%
Magic - 96%

So when you look at 0 MF vs 100MF, you can see that legendaries don't really change in actual drop chance but rares and magics change significantly.


(Your increases represent 300% MF, not 100% MF, by the way)

But you still have four times the chance of getting a Legendary. The increase in rare and blue drops does not change your Legendary drop chances to be lower.

Legendaries are given top priority in item rolls. You cannot fail the Legendary roll due to circumstances occuring on later rolls, ie, by your rare or magic chances. Legendary is rolled first and rolled independently. You can only fail the Legendary roll based on the following formula: 100 - %chance of Legendary.

Just using your table as an example, you have Magic = 96%. That doesn't mean 96% of your items are magic. It means 96% of the items that drop that miss the Legendary roll and then miss all the rare rolls will end up as Magic.
Edited by Mith#1762 on 8/30/2012 11:19 AM PDT
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Well here's the problem, the more MF you have, the more the bonus affects it's quality roll, causing it to fail the legendary check. So we look at it like this

Legendary .001%
Rare 6 - 4%
Rare 5 - 8%
Rare 4 - 12%
Magic - 24%

then lets say we have 100% MF, now it looks like

Legendary .004
Rare 6 - 12%
Rare 5 - 32%
Rare 4 - 48%
Magic - 96%

So when you look at 0 MF vs 100MF, you can see that legendaries don't really change in actual drop chance but rares and magics change significantly.


(Your increases represent 300% MF, not 100% MF, by the way)

But you still have four times the chance of getting a Legendary. The increase in rare and blue drops does not change your Legendary drop chances to be lower.

Legendaries are given top priority in item rolls. You cannot fail the Legendary roll due to circumstances occuring on later rolls, ie, by your rare or magic chances. Legendary is rolled first and rolled independently. You can only fail the Legendary roll based on the following formula: 100 - %chance of Legendary.

Just using your table as an example, you have Magic = 96%. That doesn't mean 96% of your items are magic. It means 96% of the items that drop that miss the Legendary roll and then miss all the rare rolls will end up as Magic.


I missed the part where the legendaries are rolled first. If so, then you've got me convinced that higher MF = good. Sheesh, these theories make my head hurt.
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agree to disagree. Meanwhile, I sold a Zunimassa's Trail that dropped on a run after I took off my MF. Sold nearly instantly, then sold the gold for nearly instantly.
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08/30/2012 11:27 AMPosted by speedforce
agree to disagree. Meanwhile, I sold a Zunimassa's Trail that dropped on a run after I took off my MF. Sold nearly instantly, then sold the gold for nearly instantly.


Did you get 5 stacks on the run? Also, what act did it drop?
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08/30/2012 11:27 AMPosted by speedforce
agree to disagree. Meanwhile, I sold a Zunimassa's Trail that dropped on a run after I took off my MF. Sold nearly instantly, then sold the gold for nearly instantly.


There's nothing to disagree on. It is fact that increasing your MF increases your Legendary chances, and that your Legendary chances are not pushed off because you see more rares and blues.

Increasing your MF will always help your Legendary chances. It will never hurt them.
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This farming is driving me crazy. I've been doing it almost non-stop since Sunday. Today I got a legendary source from a treasure goblin, making the total 13. That's an average of 2.7 legendaries per day...
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08/30/2012 11:27 AMPosted by speedforce
agree to disagree. Meanwhile, I sold a Zunimassa's Trail that dropped on a run after I took off my MF. Sold nearly instantly, then sold the gold for nearly instantly.


random is still random. MF only helps, it doesn't mean the difference of not getting anything good and getting everything good. It just gives a better chance.

Same way you can count cards in blackjack and still draw a 2 7. Just because you know the deck is heavy with face cards doesn't mean they're guaranteed. It also doesn't mean the guy not doing it can't get a blackjack.
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3 days no luck. Got 3 legendaries in the 1st 6 hours, and then nothing for the next 2 days. Tonight might be my last night. which is sad, because I REALLY need the cash infusion, but with the chance of finally getting one and have it be <25% and therefore worth alot less (what down to sub 60m this morning) makes me sad.

I'm suffering from
1. bad rng
2.jealousy over those farming it for 4hours and getting it. Those getting 2 already
3.Anger from the way people are pricing it, as if giving a 10m discount is going to sell it faster.
4.Burnout-My speeds have improved. My MF has going up 55 points since the 1st night, and yet, my drops are just horrible. I know the runs, I know how to play. I know how to farm efficiently.
Hell on Royal audience I know exactly where to click, when, how long to wait to let them transform, where to stand to trigger the next phase, and be in range of all the mobs I need to kill, when to hit spirit walk. Nothing.

I both not hate and hate diablo at this point.
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MF has almost no effect on legendary items but it doesn't hurt your chances either, based on the way the tables work now. Different then D2 with diminishing returns and such. Since we are running specifically to look for a legendary item, and don't care at all about the others, then stacking valor for example is a waste, unless it happens naturally on your run. Same with getting extra MF items just for the sake of the run. Now if the cap was removed and we could reach say 600-800-1000% MF then it would have a slightly noticeable effect, but still not a enough to force the issue. .002% is just way to low to be substantially effected one way or the other because of how MF is calculated and the Pseudo-randomness of the drop itself.
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08/30/2012 11:23 AMPosted by MoonForged
But you still have four times the chance of getting a Legendary
4 times zero is still zero. ;)
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But you still have four times the chance of getting a Legendary
4 times zero is still zero. ;)


the whole concept behind this thread was for those missed the last one that had reached its cap, just let people who want to farm for this, know what areas to farm and what area not to farm. !@#$%ing about not finding anything is just gonna get this thread closed at the result of maximum post reached.

so to anyone who finds it just post a screenshot and where you found it doing which of the four routes.

Royal Audience, Unexpected Allies, or Duglar Oasis, Desolace Sands + VoA/CotB
Edited by Convic#1479 on 8/30/2012 1:24 PM PDT
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I f

3 days no luck. Got 3 legendaries in the 1st 6 hours, and then nothing for the next 2 days. Tonight might be my last night. which is sad, because I REALLY need the cash infusion, but with the chance of finally getting one and have it be <25% and therefore worth alot less (what down to sub 60m this morning) makes me sad.

I'm suffering from
1. bad rng
2.jealousy over those farming it for 4hours and getting it. Those getting 2 already
3.Anger from the way people are pricing it, as if giving a 10m discount is going to sell it faster.
4.Burnout-My speeds have improved. My MF has going up 55 points since the 1st night, and yet, my drops are just horrible. I know the runs, I know how to play. I know how to farm efficiently.
Hell on Royal audience I know exactly where to click, when, how long to wait to let them transform, where to stand to trigger the next phase, and be in range of all the mobs I need to kill, when to hit spirit walk. Nothing.

I both not hate and hate diablo at this point.


I feel your pain brother. I share your luck. I got a Curaiss, Mage Fists and a Broken Crown early and felt like it was inevitable that the ring would drop. Now this whole week is almost gone and my lone legendary last night was a level 5 kick in the nads.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/vigilante-belt
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08/30/2012 01:05 PMPosted by ChaosLeech
MF has almost no effect on legendary items but it doesn't hurt your chances either, based on the way the tables work now. Different then D2 with diminishing returns and such. Since we are running specifically to look for a legendary item, and don't care at all about the others, then stacking valor for example is a waste, unless it happens naturally on your run. Same with getting extra MF items just for the sake of the run. Now if the cap was removed and we could reach say 600-800-1000% MF then it would have a slightly noticeable effect, but still not a enough to force the issue. .002% is just way to low to be substantially effected one way or the other because of how MF is calculated and the Pseudo-randomness of the drop itself.


I think you're undervaluing MF.

Not only does it increase, say, your chances of a Legendary roll from 0.002 or whatever at 0 MF to 0.008 with 300% MF and to 0.0095 with 375% MF (capped with 5 NV), but it also gives you an extra item drop from all elite/champ packs, which is another item that has a chance to be Legendary.

The first point is actually far greater than you're making it out to be. The base chance for a legendary is not statistically insignificant. People have found Legendaries. People have found many Legendaries. All things considered, you should have averaged at least 1 or 2 Legendaries by now, and the people complaining about having never seen a single Legendary are outliers. Doubling, Tripling, or Quadrupling your odds of a statistically significant chance (0.002% is 1 in 50,000, which is pretty damn good considering how many mobs we can kill in just a couple hours farming) is great. It's not like we're buying two, three, or four lottery tickets compared to one ticket in a lottery that has like 1 in 1,000,000,000 odds of winning, to which I'd say yeah, you're not relevantly improving your odds. But when you're going from 1:50,000 to 1:10,562, that's a different story.

I'm not sure how powerful the 2nd point is, because on its own it might not seem like much (it probably isn't). But I'm sure something is up with lower level mob drop chances / mf / etc, because I see far more often than I should that the only rare I get is the 1 guaranteed NV rare.
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3 days no luck. Got 3 legendaries in the 1st 6 hours, and then nothing for the next 2 days. Tonight might be my last night. which is sad, because I REALLY need the cash infusion, but with the chance of finally getting one and have it be <25% and therefore worth alot less (what down to sub 60m this morning) makes me sad.

I'm suffering from
1. bad rng
2.jealousy over those farming it for 4hours and getting it. Those getting 2 already
3.Anger from the way people are pricing it, as if giving a 10m discount is going to sell it faster.
4.Burnout-My speeds have improved. My MF has going up 55 points since the 1st night, and yet, my drops are just horrible. I know the runs, I know how to play. I know how to farm efficiently.
Hell on Royal audience I know exactly where to click, when, how long to wait to let them transform, where to stand to trigger the next phase, and be in range of all the mobs I need to kill, when to hit spirit walk. Nothing.

I both not hate and hate diablo at this point.

im feeling you brother
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