Diablo® III

RNG = RNG

RNG = RNG

I see this statement in so many threads that the people saying it are starting to sound like bleeting sheep.

The statement is true (for the most part). Yes, there are glitches to a poorly implemented RNG that causes computers to not generate a true random. You'll see things such as duplicate items dropping, but the occurrences are so rare that it is still considered random.

However, what most people that use this RNG=RNG argument for everything from loot drops to mob affixes fail to realize is that there are more factors involved than just an RNG. Every hardcoded limitation reduces the effectiveness of "random" If a mob has a specific loot table, then it is no longer completely random, is it? You can randomize from a loot table, but you have a 0% chance of getting something that is not in the loot table.

I'm putting this out there to try to educate some people and I don't want to start an argument.

I would just like to ask everyone 1 question....

If loot is completely, 100%, random, then how is the following line from the patch notes possible?

"Drop rate on quivers has been reduced"
Reply Quote
Well, it's not impossible to fiddle with RNG. There's a math term called, Random Variable.
Reply Quote
I havn't read RNG=RNG here in a while. Maybe im just not in the right threads. I see variations a lot. But I rarely see "RNG=RNG" Nobody says that.
Reply Quote
Pc can not create true random, but you can change PC.
Reply Quote
08/23/2012 11:01 AMPosted by Vuron00
If loot is completely, 100%, random, then how is the following line from the patch notes possible?


Please link us where the game says loot is 100% random
Reply Quote
if 1-5 drops a quiver, and 6 drops a sword, the RNG is still random, but the odds of getting a number that drops a quiver is higher, no?
Reply Quote
There's a difference between random and limits.

Example:

Truly random drop rate: Everything has chance to drop from 0% to 100%.
Limited random drop rate: Everything has chance to drop from 10% to 20%.

In both cases, it's still random, it's just that the limits have been changed.

So reducing drop rates of quivers is just changing the limits. It's still random.
Edited by JohnTeddy#6592 on 8/23/2012 11:06 AM PDT
Reply Quote
08/23/2012 11:05 AMPosted by Feeber
If loot is completely, 100%, random, then how is the following line from the patch notes possible?


Please link us where the game says loot is 100% random


The game doesn't say it and that is my point. The people using this argument try to use it to dispute any idea that goes against the game being 100% random.
Reply Quote
I don't people are using RNG = RNG or "random is random" in defense that the game populates truly random results.

More-so, this is used to refute those out their sporting tinfoil hats that are accusing Blizzard of secret nerfs to drops rates. It's possible to get a string of good drops and then not see anything decent for a long time. The fallacy is people assume, as soon as those drops stop, since that they haven't changed something, it must be Blizzard fine tuning the numbers.

This is incorrect, the change is just the random result of loot tables over time.
Edited by Zerowyn#1533 on 8/23/2012 11:10 AM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 3,789
View profile
It's very likely that there was something in the code what was causing quivers to drop at a higher rate than other items.

Your sentiment is true - that there is no "true" RNG in the game as a purist would look at it. However, the spirit of RNG is there and that's what people refer to when they say "RNG is RNG".

... though I would argue that at this time, RNG is weighted toward lower quality drops overall.

But man... really you're just starting a semantics argument.
Reply Quote
- Diablo III (Monk)
Posts: 7,174
View profile
RNG = RNG

The statement is true (for the most part).


To be fair, the Law of Identity states that, in fact, RNG = RNG.

Something is, by definition, equal to or the same as itself.
Reply Quote
08/23/2012 11:04 AMPosted by Neoreturn
Pc can not create true random, but you can change PC.


You can seed the RNG with current date/time which varies and never same at all. However, you can fiddle with the outcomes by tweaking the RNG itself.
Reply Quote
If loot is completely, 100%, random, then how is the following line from the patch notes possible?

"Drop rate on quivers has been reduced"


The random number seeds the drop rate algorithm for a particular item or class of item. The moving parts of said algorithm are adjusted by Blizzard at their whim.

Edit: Grammar!
Edited by Zuzax#1341 on 8/23/2012 11:11 AM PDT
Reply Quote
1 = 1, 2 = 2, RNG = RNG
yea.. i know... im bored
Reply Quote
RNG = RNG

The statement is true (for the most part).


To be fair, the Law of Identity states that, in fact, RNG = RNG.

Something is, by definition, equal to or the same as itself.


lol.. you got me...
Reply Quote
08/23/2012 11:10 AMPosted by Mitchell
What is RNG?
Something you wear on your FNGR.
Reply Quote
It's very likely that there was something in the code what was causing quivers to drop at a higher rate than other items.

Your sentiment is true - that there is no "true" RNG in the game as a purist would look at it. However, the spirit of RNG is there and that's what people refer to when they say "RNG is RNG".

... though I would argue that at this time, RNG is weighted toward lower quality drops overall.

But man... really you're just starting a semantics argument.


I wasn't trying to start a semantics argument or argue the definition of computer RNG. I was attempting to stress the point that everything in this game isn't random. There are hardcoded factors such as loot tables, spawn rates, affixes, etc. that all apply BEFORE the RNG is used.

This is a fact that a good many people on this board either choose to forget to just don't know.

This very argument happened in posts where people were saying that they were getting tons of quiver drops. You can search for these threads and see all the replies that RNG=RNG.
Reply Quote
When you use a term like 'truly random' in this context you are mis-using it. Random means that future outcomes can't be determine by current or past state. This is why we call random numbers generated in computers 'psuedo random.' Because all outcomes are predetermined. There are just so many of them that it appears random along with choosing an arbitrary seed.

Second and more importantly.

You can't talk about probabilities and not have random choice. You can't say some choice has X probability but isn't randomly selected. It just doesn't make sense.

If you have a jar of 10 jelly beans all black except one red, what is the probability you will randomly select the red one?

Just because the probability is only 10% doesn't mean its not 'TRULY RANDOM.' The definition of probability requires a random selection.

Third, to the point of OP.

I don't think you understand WHY people say something like 'RNG = RNG'

Is usually in response to someone saying something like:

If I have a 10% chance of getting drop X then how come I just got 50 drops in a row without getting drop X?

Or,

I just played 200 hours with 300% MF, and never got a legendary drop.

With both of those statements its good to bring up the nature of randomness as an explanation.
Edited by Ham#1161 on 8/23/2012 11:22 AM PDT
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]