Diablo® III

Guild Wars 2 is way better then wow and D3

You really exposed your level of maturity and objectivity with the "giggles" and "I will come back here to laugh at you" comment.

Laugh all you want, no one but you will care.

It's funny you use WAR as a comparison (based purely on DEs i'm sure). That is what you call grasping at straws. I played WAR and GW is superior to it in a number of ways, not the least of which is PVE.

You can tell you have lost an argument when you have to resort to the "fanboy" or "hater" name game.

Edit: and btw it is "predecessor", not "successor", get educated.

Read the thread moron. I was called a wow fanboy multiple times just for pointing out GW2 problems. Apparently Im not allowed to use negatives without being a rabid WoW fan. I guess if I go talk about WoW's shortcomings, Ill be labeled a GW2 fanboy by that playerbase.

Im not the fanboy here; you and the others are. If I made a post right now Discussing WoW's shortcomings, 17 fanboys would roll in telling me to gtfo go back to GW2.

At first, I was just pointing out the problems with GW2. Now, after the usual rabid delusional fanboys that come barreling out at every one of these games(rift, age of conan, SWTOR, WAR, Hellgate London, etc), people get justification and retribution watching them fail.

I cant wait to see the number of active players in a month or 2. Its gonna be hilarious.

Heres a thought:

How about all of you labeling me a fanboy stop using cop-out arguements like I havent played the game, or spending 90% of your time going, "no" or trying to look for stupid word mistakes in my examples and use some of your own?

Everyone argueing against me either calls me a fanboy, tells me Im false with zero rebuttal, or says I havent played the game. Those arent good arguements. Like I said, Im the only one offering up hardly any game examples of what I mean, where you guys go, "False WoW fanboy, you havent played the game. I see a spelling error Noob!"

You need to calm yourself. No need to get in a rage, especially seeing as how you clearly did not read my post.

I called you no names. I showed you that it was immature of you to do so, but you just keep going. You are making yourself look worse each time you post. You also keep calling me a fanboy. So in your mind, it is ok to call people names, but no one can do it to you?

I made an argument against your comparison of WAR and GW, but you totally ignore that, and go crazy spewing "fanboy", and "everyone is picking on me", etc.

Now if you would like to act like an adult and demonstrate how GW2 is exactly like WAR, please do. You can speculate all you want, but it is still just guessing.

And just so you know, I play many games, and enjoy every one I play. If I don't, then I don't play it. It would be somewhat crazy to go in to forums about a game I don't play and don't llike, just to have my little opinion heard.
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Posts: 211
What's funny about this thread is I'm the only person giving precise examples while the GW2 fanboys just keep saying "no". Cracks me up

Here you go again, flat-out insulting people's intelligence.

Just as you aren't the only person in here without bias, you are similarly the not the only person providing specific examples.

You want Guild Wars 2 to fail. That much is obvious. Then you argue the reasons that it "sucks" and why it will "fail" with examples that just aren't very good.

There is no reason to PvP? False. Just because you don't like what they offer in Guild Wars 2 doesn't mean that it sucks. I doubt you spent much time in WvW since you just think it is ZergvZerg.

The combat is not unresponsive. When you use a skill and have to wait to use the next skill, that doesn't automatically make it unresponsive. Maybe if you're impatient. You do one thing, then you do the next thing. If someone is comfortable with the mechanics of how their class plays, they won't cry about combat being "unresponsive". It's also worth noting that not every weapon set for every class has any emphasis on these longer moves. I'll say it again: my ranger has zero long wind-ups.

I haven't played all the classes. But in addition to the thief, the warrior has adrenaline to manage.

And no endgame? Seriously? Spoken like someone who probably didn't reach any endgame. Orr. 100% completion. PvP/WvW. 5-man dungeons in Exploration Mode. Crafting. Getting the gear/look that you want for your character.

You know why people might consider calling you a WoW "fanboy" (something I've never called you)? Because you constantly talk about how much "better" WoW is in different ways. You talk about how WoW is a great game with spectacular visuals and spectacular story-telling.

Seriously, don't play the victim. And don't act like you're the only mature person in this topic. If you're going to argue something, argue on the basis of facts. I think it's hilarious that you get testy because you think people are accusing you of being a "fanboy" or a "hater", when that's exactly what you call the people who disagree with you.
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I wouldn't compare D3 to GW2 as they are different genres and D3 is good game in my opinion that I will keep playing once in awhile. However GW2 vs WoW, GW2 wins by far. I don't see myself going back to WoW or any other raid centric mmos ever again. One thing I hated about WoW was that you had to do raids for some overpowered trinket/weapon that was superior to whatever you could get from PvP and to get boss to drop that trinket you simply needed luck.

Combat and generally PvP is just so much fun in GW2. For example when you shoot projectile in GW2 it will hit first enemy in its path, which is really handy in WvW because if you get chased by lot of enemy players and run to bunch of npc then these npcs will take hit from projectiles and aggro that group chasing you. Also in big fight enemy group wont be able to just "3,2,1 focus fire on X" as depending on group position most of player wont hit that one target because something blocking their path and if target is moving a lot in own group it doesn't make it any easier.

There is so much in combat that let you be creative skills/traits that make it very fun. Here is good video that demonstrate that with mesmer portals http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhXF9wY0BPE teamwork > massive zerg
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And just so you know, I play many games, and enjoy every one I play. If I don't, then I don't play it. It would be somewhat crazy to go in to forums about a game I don't play and don't llike, just to have my little opinion heard.

Actually I think its more crazy to be on another game forum trying to convince ppl to like a game from a diff. company. Why arent you on GW2 forums?

Seriously what sounds more crazy; me posting on Blizzard forums how bad GW2 is, or you posting on Blizzard forums about how great it is? Ill wait while you think that through.

Actually if you bothered to check what forum you are in, you would notice that it is a subforum concerning Games, Gaming and Hardware. You are funny though, getting all defensive, and only addressing the last thing I said in my post. No suprise there.

Where do you see me trying to convince anyone to try and play any game? Stop making things up. Your argument is weak.

Learn what forum you are in. Learn how to make a valid argument without throwing insults. Learn that your opinion is just one, and no matter how hard you kick and scream, you will not convince anyone who likes the game, to stop playing.

And why would you care if a couple of million people like a game that you don't? Why are you so personally hurt by GW2? What is your current game?
Edited by Zenjo#1135 on 9/14/2012 6:20 PM PDT
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Posts: 211
Arent very good? Ive gave pretty damn clear examples in which you go "false" "opinion" and offer NOTHING in return. Nothing.

This is completely dishonest. In fact, I've answered some of your criticisms on multiple occasions. And when I declare that something you say is purely subjective, there's not much else for me to say. You often equate your preferences with something being good, and things you dislike with being bad. That's not how it works.

There you go again thinking niche=good. It doesnt. Sorry. There was alot of ppl who actually liked Hellgate London. Didnt matter cause the game sucked. And died. There was a car that was released called an Aztec. Sold 27,000 cars. 27,000 ppl like that car, but its recognized as one of the worst cars of all time.

Once again, you're trying to re-word what I say to fit your own argument. I have never said that something fitting into a narrow niche makes it good. However, I have said that something being good and something being popular are largely independent of each other. There are numerous examples of exactly that.

Actually that kind of does. It makes it FEEL unresponsive, which is just as bad as being unresponsive. If it feels cold outside because of the windchill but its really 10 degrees higher, is it still cold? Ya because it FEELS cold. Im not even a very fast gamer, and when I can notice having to spam a key a few times before it goes off because another is casting, its hard not to think the combat feels or is unresponsive. Not to mention things like a Warriors charge if you hit a wall or miss. Or the windup on rocket jump, etc.

So, because you're too impatient to let an animation play itself out, it's the game's fault? The reason the combat "feels" unresponsive to you is because you're trying to make your character do something else before he (or she) has finished his/her current move. There's a solution to this. It's called paying attention to the game and starting your next skill when it's time to start the next skill. You must have had one hell of a time getting used to Demon's Souls/Dark Souls.

Adrenaline is almost always up, esp. with sword builds loaded with adrenaline talents. I never felt out of adrenaline, and it really doesnt change much. There is no management; it might as well be a CD, spam on full.

Yes, there is management. Particularly since some builds can build adrenaline more effectively, and some builds/skill sets are more potent with filled adrenaline.

I talk about what WoW does better. If pro and cons make me a fanboy so be it. WoW actually is better in a large number of facets. The only thing GW2 beats WoW at is lvling and questing. That is it, and that is a very mundane thing to beat a MMO at. WoW's endgame is far better. The PvP and arenas are much better then GW2 atm. So is endgame raiding if PvE is your thing. Crafting(both share this), exploring(both share), and 5 mans(both share), doesnt trump WoW's pve. It just doesnt, and thats why ppl, even streamers are already jumping ship.

There isnt much for ppl to do. That has been the problem for every MMO released. They offer a far better questing/leveling experience and completely lack in all endgame material from PvE to PvP and ppl wonder why they continue to lose to WoW.

I'm not calling you a fanboy. But you are biased towards WoW. My point is that you complain about people suggesting that you are a "fanboy", then you turn around and call pro-Guild Wars 2 people that very same term. That makes you a hypocrite.

In your "WoW > GW2 for these reasons", I'm seeing a lot of bias. And a lot of being misinformed when you say that there just isn't much to do. In fact, I produced a laundry list of things that you can do at the end of the game. You avoided addressing them because they don't fit your message of Guild Wars 2 lacking any endgame.

GW2 is a better leveling experience. You've admitted as much. You like WoW's PvP experience better. I'd call it personal preference, but that's my opinion. You say that crafting and exploration are equivalent between the two games, and that is one point where I very strongly disagree. Exploration, in particular, demonstrates a wide disparity between the two games. In crafting, I have a greater sense of both flexibility and reward than I ever did in WoW. WoW has instanced raids. GW2 has outdoor raids.

Are people jumping ship? You keep saying this, and you keep talking about streams, but you aren't really proving anything. You just say it multiple times.

I said it WAS. You keep tooting Baldur Gate 2 as a great game. By todays standards, no it isnt. The graphics are bad, etc. When WoW released in 2004, it WAS a great game and stayed a great game for a very long time. It is still by definition a great game if you still consider games like BG 2 a great game. At the time of release its presentation was 10000x better then any MMO on the market. So was its graphics, which for the time was very good. You gotta realise 8 years ago those wow graphics were amazing.

It was a great game. Its lost a lot of its sheen in 8 years, what game doesnt? Its still a good game, far better then mediocre crap like SWOTR and GW2, which are why these games fail and lose to WoW. As another poster put it; WoW took 4 years to become mediocre, these games release mediocre out the box.

You clearly have forgotten the formula I use for determining a great game. WoW was never, ever a game that struck me as gorgeous. Visually, it was average. So was the gameplay. The story was below average and (from my understanding) they re-worked the lore as they saw fit. Yes, it had replayability. Yes, it advanced the MMO genre by leaps and bounds. Yes, it made a ton of money. But that doesn't mean that it's a pantheon game.

You want a comparison? Think about the NBA's Dr. J. Very good player who saved the association and basically invented the dunk. No intelligent NBA fan would tell you that he was a pantheon player, but he was historically significant. In my opinion, WoW occupies a similar place. In terms of cultural significance, it's massive. It'll always be a big story in the history of gaming. But one of the greatest games that I've played? Not at all.

Which brings me to Baldur's Gate 2. Visually impressive? No. Very average. But it has great story-telling, great replayability, and great gameplay. I also believe that I made a point of emphasizing that I contextualize graphics. That's why I don't say that WoW looks awful. It just looks average.
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DynomiteDave, please take note of what Zenjo is saying about your behavior.

I cant speak for everyone BUT nobody else is interested in 'converting' anyone. Have you ever considered that we are critiquing because we want gaming companies to take note of what works and what dont so that they can make better games FOR US TO PLAY in the future?

Actually I think its more crazy to be on another game forum trying to convince ppl to like a game from a diff. company. Why arent you on GW2 forums?

Obviously not. Do you think i do not point out what i feel are GW2 flaws in GWguru? I dont do it here because you need an advance understanding of the games first. You keep screaming zerg-this and zerg-that as if that means something. Do you know that even Zergs have strategies? You also keep talking about subscription drops as if you have conclusive data. Only Anet has the real statistics now so we should let them deal with it in their own discretion.

In the future, remember that the point of a debate/argument is to convince people to side with you, not: insult them or show how much better you think you are. Thats why everyone here eventually turns on you.
Edited by TheCursed#6888 on 9/14/2012 7:00 PM PDT
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Im not hurt. If anything me stating the shortcomings of a game I bought pissed off a few fans. Its funny that to you, I'm the villian in this while the ppl argueing with me are the sane ones. Funny stuff. Why are you or the others so worked up that a random guy on the net thinks GW2 is mediocre?

I answered the last part because I have to type an essay to the other guy every time, since I have to do to the talking for both of us with his "opinion" one-liners.

Ive made many arguements which get shrugged off as "opinions" because others dont agree with them. Why dont you learn to read the whole thread before you hit the last page and make a post? If anything, Im about the only person who has said clear arguements, not just "no, wrong, fanboy, never played game." I attempt to point out actual in-game situations, yet my arguements are stupid

What about the other guys arguements? The Pro-GW2 ones you obviously agree with(like "opinion" and "no") which offer nothing, nadda, zilch. It has took 5 pages for Petyr to even mention an ingame situation.

I dont have to convince anyone of not playing. I told the guy to buy the game and find out how mediocre it really is, but make sure he gets the digital version so he can get a refund.

GW2 will do the convincing for me, and so will time. Ppl get to make a very strong arguement in the first month of everyone of these mediocre failure 2nd coming games. 2-3 months down the road, tables will turn.

Currently, I play mostly TF2. I was hoping GW2 would be good. Its not. I was playing D3 but it sucks and I have liquidated all my gear on the RMAH. I dabble a bit in PoE. Atm I got nerve damage in my right hand thats taking a long time to heal so my games are limited.

I might go back to Tribes. I personally prefer FPS games.

And yea, I might try MoP in the long run. Will it be the greatest thing since sliced bread? No, but arenas will prob. be a decent time waster for 3-4 months. I dont think WoW in its current incarnation is an amazing game. But, the competition is always worse.

GW2 is just mediocre. Thats not my fault. D3 was mediocre too. Even worse actually. Its not my fault these games arent good. And yes, its just my single little opinion, but opinions are shared. And if the majority falls on my side of the table, well its not our fault the game sucked and lost the majority of its playerbase. ANd from past experiences in these games, that seems to be the exact path its taking because it lacks the same stuff all the others did: good endgame.

That is still just your opinion, but your ego makes you think that it is the "right" opinion, and that any opposing opinion is "wrong".

The problem is with you, not the game in this instance. You made that clear by stating "I prefer FPS".

I could easily call the games you like "mediocre", and give you clear examples, but what would be the point? You wouldn't stop playing, and I am sure you would rush to defend them, as is clear by your stance against GW2. Plus I don't feel the need to waste my time like you do, but that is your choice.

You place alot of emphasis on "end-game". I guess you didn't notice the millions of people who currently play MMOs , with your version of "end-game", but don't actually get to enjoy this content. That compiled with people like myself who have actually raided (because that is what you are talking about when you refer to end-game), but don't enjoy the way it is in many games, gives you many millions of players who may like and actually "get" what end game is in a game like GW2.

It is unfortunate that you are stuck to such a narrow view. That is your loss.

You don't like a game, that is fine, but try not to invest so much time trying to convice others to not like it. It is an exercise in futility. Your time would be better spent doing something you like. Some FPS maybe? Now off witcha, pew pew.
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Diablo3 wasn't about leveling...

Pros about Diablo:
-well designed armor and monsters
-addictive loot system
-real cash auction house

-weekly server [down/update] problems/ errors (inept programers at Blizzard?)
-incomprehensible story with too many lose ends(why is the greatest strategist of hell so stupid and weak? did diablo die (all that work just to throw him from a high place)? Zoltun Kulle cant die, right(did you bother to check)?, [Diablo's corruption of the Crystal Arch renders Imperius and his angels powerless, every other Angel is not effected]? If Tyrael rules the heavens in the end as a human, why not me? WTF!)
-short actual content (real game starts when you reach Inferno/lv60)
-lots of skills but most are useless in Inferno(where the real game starts)
-"the pvp is a lie" OR no PvP = no reason for better loot! I bet the d3 expansion will come before the pvp.
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Posts: 1
Oh lorrrdy. Whatever do i say about this game....... I am sure most of you have hit level 80 by now and made tons of gold which isn't really challenging. What to do now? I was extremely passionate about this game and the first 200 hours was a blast O_O, but now i'm starting to wonder....... I 5v5 with friends every now and then sometimes, but that's all i really do. I cant make myself PVE anymore, because honestly there isn't a real reason for it. The instances really aren't hard and require very little strategy <--- Explorer mode included, and i do these for what? Some tokens that i can make legendary weapons with or purchase the same statted gear i already own? The combat is sorta interesting it does take some skill, but its not like you need 400 apm and need to practice everyday. The game is still new so there is pretty much one build for each specific class to rule them all in pvp. WVWVW is somewhat interesting you can level with it slowly but surely, but the other rewards for doing it are very small and seem unimportant. Im sure some people might disagree with me, but I believe the downed balance is somewhat jacked up. Staking some classes in pvp is much harder than staking others and seems obnoxious. I honestly wouldn't mind if they took out staking all together or atleast give you the option to take it out in pvp.
Completing the word doesn't really give you anything you don't already own or can purchase for cheap. The crafting again doesn't really give you anything better than what you have, or can aquire. The mystic forge recipies are all on reddit.....

As we all know GW2 is not a PVE game really its all about the PVP, but i just cant find the motivation to continue... My team feels the same way.... Maybe ill just go play some more dota 2 or sc2.

Sorry for the bad grammar.

I just got done talking with my friends and we all concluded that gw2 seems to just be a casual mmo... Log on do a couple spvps log off. Thats atleast all we do sense were all level 80 and can't find the motivation to make a new 80
Edited by Darkpony#1260 on 9/14/2012 11:54 PM PDT
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09/14/2012 06:42 AMPosted by DynomiteDave
2 dodges that you spam

I'm still not understanding how you can call something you can do only 2 consecutive times, spamming and in the span of 2 seconds then you're waiting a good 7 seconds before your energy has regenerated enough to do 1 more dodge.

09/14/2012 06:42 AMPosted by DynomiteDave
Hitting one skill on CD in WoW is not the same as hitting every skill on CD in GW2.

WoW has only one skill you're waiting for to come off cool down?

09/14/2012 06:42 AMPosted by DynomiteDave
Sure did. The combat is unresponsive.

Subjective, I don't feel that it is /shrug.

09/14/2012 06:42 AMPosted by DynomiteDave
A lot of the skills are like that.

"a lot" is ambiguous, if you're saying the majority of skills/spells work this way, you're reaching a bit.

09/14/2012 06:42 AMPosted by DynomiteDave
There is no reason to PvP. This is a MMO.

Again, I ask, then why is WvWvW queues still full? Why am I waiting to PvP if it's such a horrid system with "No reason" to play it?

Just because you find no motivation, does not make this a substainted fact.

09/14/2012 06:42 AMPosted by DynomiteDave
Why isnt there at least some kind of special looking gear for ppl to strive for

I'm guessing you didn't play long or look at what high level karma vendors have to offer.

09/14/2012 06:42 AMPosted by DynomiteDave
This game is a rehashed War 2.0, and guess what? History repeats itself.

I played Warhammer Online for a good while, I can tell you, other then the Dynamic Quests or what Warhammer called them "Public Quests" the similarities end there.

09/14/2012 06:42 AMPosted by DynomiteDave
Dont take my word for it

I won't and I hope others won't either, and form their own opinions.

09/14/2012 06:42 AMPosted by DynomiteDave
What's funny about this thread is I'm the only person giving precise examples while the GW2 fanboys just keep saying "no". Cracks me up

Your definition of precise I think probably differ then what it actually means.

At best you give your biased opinions on why the game is terrible and why you'll "laugh" when it fails, all the while giving your expert opinions on what "great graphics" are.

If you don't like GW2, that's cool, the game isn't for everyone. But passing off your opinions as fact and calling people who disagree names is pretty, well...entertaining at least.

09/14/2012 08:12 PMPosted by DynomiteDave
Hell, wow put EQ in the grave,

While that may be true, Meridian 59, UO and EQ all pathed the way for World of Warcraft.

09/14/2012 08:12 PMPosted by DynomiteDave
Because they are all mediocre and miss the most important part of the puzzle: endgame and the social aspect.

EQ mediocre? The game broke subscription records previously held by UO, both were quality MMORPG titles.
Edited by TwoSwordsII#1323 on 9/15/2012 2:19 AM PDT
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Ultima Online and Everquest where the best Mmos before Wow, i didn't play EQ because i was playing Dark Age of Camelot at the time but i ve seen it and tested it wasn't bad. I had my share of UO though

It's just that wow offered freedom that in other games you couldn't find. Example you could attack an enemy town with a raid.

Game initially was supposed to be like that. You would have conquered the outposts with quest givers and so on.

But Blizzard then stepped back and the abolished World Pvp and such things since probably they were too stressfull for most player pcs and for their servers as well.
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Posts: 211
Might be subjective, but thats a bad subjective thats gonna run off players. My buddy played for 1 day before he quit. Said combat is clunky and unresponsive. I caught a glimpse of Kripp's stream last night, he mentioned something similar while he was trying MoP out, how fluid WoW is compared to GW2.

Do you even know what subjective means?
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