Diablo® III

Guild Wars 2 is way better then wow and D3

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09/15/2012 06:23 AMPosted by DynomiteDave
WoW bgs stay full, whats your point?


My point is, people obviously play them for a reason.

09/15/2012 06:30 AMPosted by DynomiteDave
Again your reading comprehension is staggering

09/15/2012 06:30 AMPosted by DynomiteDave
What the hell does that even matter? Did you read?


When you use words that aren't specific like "they", it does not make it clear as to what you are referring to.

You seem to like to attack people, that's cool I guess, at least it's entertaining to read.

I can agree with that sentiment somewhat, but I understand that not every MMO released since WoW is aimed at the "User Twoswords Market", Eve Online is a good example of this, I could never get into the game, but Eve has been doing well for some time now, and I personally wouldn't call it mediocre. Some would argue Lord of the Rings is also a quality product, the same with D&D Online, you would be more credible and probably more people would quit calling you out if your quote read:

Every MMO in my opinion released since wow has been mediocre.


09/15/2012 06:23 AMPosted by DynomiteDave
Might be subjective, but thats a bad subjective thats gonna run off players.


Some would argue your subjective is a "bad subjective" heh.
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Posts: 211


Do you even know what subjective means?


Your a funny one Petyr. You have zero arguements in this thread besides derailing mine with "opinions" and "no's". You probably set at home thinking your a debate king number 1.

And yes, it means personal feelings on the subject. So what is exactly wrong with my post? If the majority's "tastes" are that the combat is clunky and unresponsive, where did I go wrong? Thats a bad opinion to have cause it'll cause ppl to leave the game.

Honestly I cant win vs 700 ppl trying to convert players to GW2 on a Blizzard forum. I already know this. It doesnt matter if Jesus himself came down to earth and posted "GW2 is mediocre", you guys dont care. My only saving grace is 2-3 months from now when half the playerbase is gone. Ill be sure to keep my eye on it just so I can update this thread with a "I told you so"

How about these games release with more then a lvling experience. Maybe then people wont leave after a month.

So keep wasting time argueing vocabulary words while streamers jump ship, which seems to be a more important issue.

I have made arguments in this thread. Several of them. However, you ignore the arguments that are inconvenient for you.

Do you know why it feels like it's "700 against 1"? Your attitude. You have a nasty habit of calling people names when they don't agree with you. You act like you're superior. To paraphrase, it's almost like you're saying: "I think this way, and no other sane person would think otherwise".

You say the game is dying, but all you give is one piece of anecdotal, unconfirmed evidence. You say that the majority of the people who have played (or who will play) Guild Wars 2 hate the combat, but give no evidence.

Weren't you saying something about how you're the only person in here making substantive arguments?
Edited by ballsohard#1432 on 9/15/2012 9:56 AM PDT
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09/15/2012 09:41 AMPosted by DynomiteDave
If the majority's "tastes" are that the combat is clunky and unresponsive, where did I go wrong?


Where are your numbers to back up your claim of "majority"?

Oh you don't have any, that's part of your problem with your post, you keep assuming your opinion is proven substantiated fact, it's not, it's merely your opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

09/15/2012 09:41 AMPosted by DynomiteDave
Thats a bad opinion to have cause it'll cause ppl to leave the game.


Realize that, opinions are subjective, and you labeling ones you don't agree with as "bad" is ironic and pretty damn funny.

09/15/2012 09:41 AMPosted by DynomiteDave
Honestly I cant win vs 700 ppl trying to convert players to GW2 on a Blizzard forum.


Does it make you mad gamers are trying to share an experience with a game they enjoy? Oh I guess it does because your opinion is a "Good Subjective".

People will figure it out for themselves, no worries, they won't just read this thread and make a purchase from a bunch of strangers, they'll probably look at metacritic and user reviews, which are for the most part positive, before they purchase.
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[quote="65707765853"][quote]quote]

Honestly I cant win vs 700 ppl trying to convert players to GW2 on a Blizzard forum. I already know this. It doesnt matter if Jesus himself came down to earth and posted "GW2 is mediocre", you guys dont care. My only saving grace is 2-3 months from now when half the playerbase is gone. Ill be sure to keep my eye on it just so I can update this thread with a "I told you so"

How about these games release with more then a lvling experience. Maybe then people wont leave after a month.

So keep wasting time argueing vocabulary words while streamers jump ship, which seems to be a more important issue.


You keep making bold claims, like "most", and "mark my words". Who are you? You are nothing but some wannabee internet know it all. News for you and your ignorance is that you know very little about games in general.

You like what you like, we do not care. We do not care that you are on some blind Blizzard crusade.

You may be on a Blizzard forum, but you are in a subforum. I told you about this already, now unless you say "sorry my mistake", then you are just here causing trouble and adding nothing to the discussion.

When you come back to say "I told you so", you will look like a huge idiot because you are only one person with one opinion, and if you can't admit mistakes, no one will ever think anything more of you.

Hows about you listen, instead of speaking.

You say WOW was advanced for its' time, and in some ways it was. But you completely disregard the fact that it was released to run on many low end systems. WOW looked good for it's time, but it was in no way ahead of everything else. And again, these are opinions.

You need to move along now. You made your opinion known many many times. You are not convincing anyone who has an open mind and can see through your completely biased crusade.

I will say it again. I like many games, and many I do not. The ones I do not like, do not get any of my time beyond trying them. I would have to have something wrong with my head if I continued the way you do. Please go check that out. We are only trying to help you here.
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Posts: 211
09/15/2012 11:33 AMPosted by DynomiteDave
Do you know why it feels like it's "700 against 1"? Your attitude. You have a nasty habit of calling people names when they don't agree with you. You act like you're superior. To paraphrase, it's almost like you're saying: "I think this way, and no other sane person would think otherwise".
\

Actually no, its not my attitude, its my stance. There are a few ppl in this thread that have acted out at me in the same fashion or worse. The only difference is they like GW2 and I dont. Thats really the only difference in my arguements too. If my arguements were Pro-GW2, I could say whatever I wanted and you'd be nose-deep in my buttcrack agreeing with me. Not only that, my "attitude" would be overlooked, like the Pro-GW2 ppl's attitudes in this thread.

Go read a few and get back to me.

Yes, it is your attitude. You use a lot of space in your responses to insult people, call them names, etc.

If you were arguing your points in a mature manner, I wouldn't necessarily agree with you but I doubt you would get the reaction that you're currently getting. Bad behavior is bad behavior, it doesn't matter what side of the argument that you're on. Show me the posts where I am outright endorsing pro-Guild Wars 2 people who are behaving childishly. You can't.

And, once again, you continue to dodge points in this thread that don't support your argument.
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Posts: 211

Yes, it is your attitude. You use a lot of space in your responses to insult people, call them names, etc.

If you were arguing your points in a mature manner, I wouldn't necessarily agree with you but I doubt you would get the reaction that you're currently getting. Bad behavior is bad behavior, it doesn't matter what side of the argument that you're on. Show me the posts where I am outright endorsing pro-Guild Wars 2 people who are behaving childishly. You can't.

And, once again, you continue to dodge points in this thread that don't support your argument.


You are effectively ignoring them arent you? I mean I dont see any posts saying, "So and so, Dave would be more receptive of your opinions if you would tone down your attitude". I havent seen a post like that; except for one directed at me.

And? I'm not giving them any positive attention whatsoever. Ignoring something does not mean that I'm validating it. For example: when I make a good point that you ignore, I don't automatically assume that you are validating my argument.

Or are you seriously asking me to chaperone everyone within this thread? Am I to believe that you'll start acting mature if I ask people to be respectful?
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Guidwars 2 view concerning 'endgame'-

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-endgame-reimagined/
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I'm not gong to answer Dave since ir seems that he's trying to turn this discussion abou GW2 into a discussion about him - not sure if it's intentional or not.
However, if someone else is curious about the 'adrenaline' mechanics here is a link with the détails. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Adrenaline

Basically. - there are was to boost adrenaline buildup or to lower burst costs. Keeping it up offres specific avantages -better healing and crit rate for instance. Also, since différent weapons have different adrenaline bursts, there are tactical choices.

You can play it the 'simple' way - hit burst when recharged - but you are limiting your effectiveness and complexity. Still-it's your choice.

I've played the same classe for a week at level 80 - ranger. I still discover new tricks and gameplay stuff everyday - like howto be a 'master puller' using pet controls. People playing other classes tell me it's the same for them. A necro payer told me he's changing his setup very day.

Edit - sorry about spelling -my pad does autocorrecting for french.
Edited by Maegglin#1669 on 9/15/2012 2:01 PM PDT
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How many mmos have came out since WoW released? How many? How many have did "well"? Tell me how many. How many games had this same exact fervor going for it 1 to 2 months into release? How many?

I mean if surviving is considered a success, then WAR, Conan, Swotr, and all the other failures are amazing successes in the MMO world. If simply surviving on f2p models and a small playerbase is the pinnacle of gaming success then I guess all these games are amazing.

Honestly answer my question. What in the world does GW2 do that makes it any different then the others that came before it and failed? It really doesnt do jack crap. If anything its pretty similar to SWOTR in the fact the personal story is the selling point or at least its high marks, and end game is a 2nd thought. I read somewhere they are trying to add more stuff to do for ppl in GW2; the game just came out you would figure ppl would have enough to do in 2 weeks gametime. Bad sign, a sign that has showed itself for what, 8 years?

So if anything, I have at least enough past evidence to guess that GW2 will follow in all the other games' footsteps. Why wouldnt it? What does it actually do better then WoW or different? Not much thats what. There is far more evidence for me to say the game will "fail" (depending on what you call fail) then for it to succeed.

Will it die? Honestly ppl still play EQ1 I think. Of course itll probably be around in some sort of survival mode niche way, with a small base of fans. But is that really a good game? Nope its mediocre like every other one released.

Those are examples based in time following the same formula GW2 is following, and I doubt somehow GW2 breaks the mold, esp. with a WoW expansion coming and gamers being the way they are today.

Nowadays lvling is moot. Most gamers have did this song and dance from d2 to wow to other mmos to the point the lvling and questing aspects arent even on the register for most gamers anymore. They rush to max lvl to start the "game". I doubt Blizzard's next mmo will succeed if it doesnt have ample endgame waiting on ppl 2-3 weeks into release.


Success equals profit. The level of success is another subject. Games do not have to reach WOW numbers to be a success. There are a huge number of games released since WOW, that are a success. Please try your best to prove any of this wrong.

You spin what you read to suit your argument. You are very apt at misquoting and misunderstanding things to fit your opinion.

Your opinion matters as much as anyones, but it doesn't make it right or wrong, just an opinion.

You make wild assumptions about what most gamers do, but where are they supporting you in this thread? Perhaps that should tell you something about yourself. You have already noticed all the people against your opinion, but I guess they are just "fanboys" right? They couldn't possibly be objective right? Wrong!

You know you have contradicted yourself in this thread as well. Earlier you complain about GW2 lack of endgame (which only means raids to you, so very narrow-minded), but then you go on to say how GW2 is exactly like every other MMO since WOW. You just can't break yourself from the end-game mold, quite silly really.

Try putting up an argument that doesn't involve the following:
- name calling
- contradiction
- ignoring something that makes you look wrong
- saying "everyone is picking on me"
- saying everyone opposed to me "is in a blind fanboy rage or blindly defending GW2"
- saying "most gamers" without providing any evidence
- acting like the past is an accurate predictor of the future
- stomping around like your opinion is the "right" opinion
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Posts: 211

And? I'm not giving them any positive attention whatsoever. Ignoring something does not mean that I'm validating it. For example: when I make a good point that you ignore, I don't automatically assume that you are validating my argument.

Or are you seriously asking me to chaperone everyone within this thread? Am I to believe that you'll start acting mature if I ask people to be respectful?


Also Petyr, since you gave me advice on having a discussion, Ill give you some. How about discussing my arguement with examples of why Im wrong instead of resorting to saying, "baseless opinion" and trying to discredit my arguement without even argueing it. Simply stating what I say is baseless opinions with no arguement from you is a flat out cop-out and attempt to discredit whatever I just said as having no merit.

Also, using "some ppl like it" is the same as me using WoW's playerbase; hell its worse. At least I have some semblance of numbers to argue with; not a vague "some". I also would like you to take a look at a post I made earlier showing why the probability of GW2 failing is higher then it succeeding, and I bet you will whip out that discrediting "opinion" line again and not even make an arguement.

I attempt to at least argue the small points you make. You make some vague point that Warriors have adrenaline to manage. Really? How do they manage it? How about backing it up? I'll start where I left off on why its not managed.

It controls 1 skill. It builds up fairly quickly from doing anything, most builds incorporate talents that regen it fast, and it doesnt really change much depending on its lvl.

If it controlled more then 1 skill, yea it would require some management. Its really more like a proc in its current state; you use it whenever its up. If you had to make a choice btw 2 or 3 skills, then it would require managing it. The entire time I played a Warrior, I never worried about adrenaline. It was just another skill, or cd to use. I never felt like I was managing anything. Managing, to me, means making a choice.

Whats the choice in adrenaline atm? U just hit z when its full, you dont go, "damn I would like to use this skill, or that skill, which do I use?" You dont save it either, its not like a long CD ult that requires some thought on when to save or use.

Now do you think you can discuss that with me without resorting to using "baseless opinion?"

Weird. Once again, you completely side-stepped one of my points.

I already addressed Warriors and adrenaline, but I'll address it again. Yes, there is one burst skill attached to each weapon set that is fueled by adrenaline. But there are also other skills that are enhanced based on how much adrenaline you've accumulated. There are passive benefits (boons) that are granted based on how much adrenaline you have accumulated.

That is why it is more than just a "proc". Considering adrenaline to be something that you just build up, then use up right away, is a terribly simplistic view.

Don't pretend that you've answered my arguments. For example, you've mentioned multiple times that Guild Wars 2 has no endgame. I then provided a list of different endgame options and... you suddenly stopped talking about endgame.

Show me this post of yours that you suggest has concrete numbers that Guild Wars 2 has a greater probability of failing.
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How many mmos have came out since WoW released? How many? How many have did "well"? Tell me how many. How many games had this same exact fervor going for it 1 to 2 months into release? How many?

I mean if surviving is considered a success, then WAR, Conan, Swotr, and all the other failures are amazing successes in the MMO world. If simply surviving on f2p models and a small playerbase is the pinnacle of gaming success then I guess all these games are amazing.

Honestly answer my question. What in the world does GW2 do that makes it any different then the others that came before it and failed? It really doesnt do jack crap. If anything its pretty similar to SWOTR in the fact the personal story is the selling point or at least its high marks, and end game is a 2nd thought. I read somewhere they are trying to add more stuff to do for ppl in GW2; the game just came out you would figure ppl would have enough to do in 2 weeks gametime. Bad sign, a sign that has showed itself for what, 8 years?

So if anything, I have at least enough past evidence to guess that GW2 will follow in all the other games' footsteps. Why wouldnt it? What does it actually do better then WoW or different? Not much thats what. There is far more evidence for me to say the game will "fail" (depending on what you call fail) then for it to succeed.

Will it die? Honestly ppl still play EQ1 I think. Of course itll probably be around in some sort of survival mode niche way, with a small base of fans. But is that really a good game? Nope its mediocre like every other one released.

Those are examples based in time following the same formula GW2 is following, and I doubt somehow GW2 breaks the mold, esp. with a WoW expansion coming and gamers being the way they are today.

Nowadays lvling is moot. Most gamers have did this song and dance from d2 to wow to other mmos to the point the lvling and questing aspects arent even on the register for most gamers anymore. They rush to max lvl to start the "game". I doubt Blizzard's next mmo will succeed if it doesnt have ample endgame waiting on ppl 2-3 weeks into release.


Aion did well.... And now that its free to play doesnt mean its dead. The game is literally free.... Nothing in the shop is needed. When it first came out, Im pretty sure it broke a million players.... Playerbase now is probably close to a million still. WoW has over 10 million, but still, that is pretty good and Aion is still doing well, just like WoW.
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You know you have contradicted yourself in this thread as well. Earlier you complain about GW2 lack of endgame (which only means raids to you, so very narrow-minded), but then you go on to say how GW2 is exactly like every other MMO since WOW. You just can't break yourself from the end-game mold, quite silly really.


I never contradicted myself. It is like every game since WoW, solid lvling experience or some random cool idea, nothing else. Its following in all the other MMOs footsteps right to a huge drop off in players. Whatever these games come up with and do, gets old faster then whatever WoW offers. Lvling from lvl 1 in Warhammer thru pvp was a cool !@# idea Somehow they implemented it wrong and it made the game and the pvp get boring as hell. I think because the PvP was boring as hell.

I dont even PvE, btw. I only played Arenas for a long time. But I can see how 5 mans and zerg Dynamic Events can wear someone down; random bgs and meaningless 5v5s for random loot chests already wore me down. The combat not being very good, to me, didnt help its cause on me sticking with it.

Oh yea, so Im supposed to prove you wrong on saying success doesnt equal profit; where do you get this claim? There are many a game companies in the dust that by that merit, sold some games, but still went under. Where do you draw the line on your version of success?


All you talk about is the lvling experience, clearly showing you did very little of what the game has to offer. Just because you did not do or know about something, does not mean it does not exist ( you learned this back with peek-a-boo).

Just because something gets boring to you (because it is not a carbon copy of WOW), does not mean it will get boring for everyone. Clearly you believe something has to have the exact formula and number of players as WOW, to be considered a success. I wish you could see how absurd this along with your argument.

Your logic on success is flawed. According to your reasoning, a company would have to exist and be profitable for eternity, to be considered a success. I mean really , you should just admit defeat, you have lost here on a number of levels. ( eg Atari was once a very succesful company, but their future failures did not erase their past successes).

Anyway good luck to you in WOW, glad you are having fun with it. I stopped playing it years ago, as I got bored with it. Nothing wrong with it, just got tired of it. That happens to alot of games we play, you will learn this as you mature.
Edited by Zenjo#1135 on 9/15/2012 3:29 PM PDT
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