Diablo® III

Guild Wars 2 is way better then wow and D3

[quote]

.


Haha concede defeat huh? To a guy who believes success is simply selling 1 copy of a game. I seriously doubt any of these games released was a 100% success to their company. I doubt in the board room they are going, "I wanna spend 4 years to make a 250,000 sub game!" Again, in the end if simply surviving constitutes success to you, then you will have a fufilling life my friend.

I know if I made a game, I would want to beat WoW. Who the hell sets a goal to be 2nd place? Really? Do you? "Man I cant wait to be a runner up today!" Maybe after they initially FAIL they readjust their goals and start meeting more attainable ones; but in the end they still failed at what they obviously wanted to do: Be number 1.

At least my level of success has a cut-off, whereas your level of success can stretch from 10 million ppl buying/playing a game to 1 person buying and playing a game. Seriously where is your cut-off on acceptable levels of gamers to be a success? Enlighten me,


You don't have the skills nor business know how to make a game. That much is clear.

You constantly put words in peoples mouths, or take a completely different meaning from what was actually said. I never said selling 1 copy equals success. You said it, then claimed I said it. Face it, you are grasping at straws here. Making up things that were not said, etc.

Again, hopefully you won't miss it this time. Profit equals success. The amount of success is related to the amount of profit. Pretty basic business stuff really.

It's funny that you say that you have all kinds of proof and arguments, but you are very selective in what you respond to. You only pick things in which you believe you can look right, but still end up with nothing.

You have lost.

Edit to your edit: WOW gets boring real fast , no matter what they add these days. I and many others can attest to this. It has nothing to do with the quality of the game, and probably more to do with the sameness.

You may consider LOL to have the correct formula, I do not. See, different people like different things. How novel.
Edited by Zenjo#1135 on 9/15/2012 3:56 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 211
I didnt side-step anything. You mentioned a bunch of things every mmo in existence has; most of those mmos are considered to have nothing to do for high lvl players. Crafting and exploring can be done in any game, and more then likely has a smaller % of lovers.

I doubt when ppl talk about D3 endgame, they mention playing the Auction house as a positive arguement. Or WoW for that matter.

Yes, you did side-step it up until this post. You said that Guild Wars 2 has no endgame. I contradicted you and gave examples. Then you ignored it and moved on to something else. And now your rebuttal is that other games have similar content. So... in order for Guild Wars 2 to meet your standard for having "enough" endgame, it needs to have a massive amount of Level 80 content that no other MMORPG has? Crafting. Exploration. PvP. Orr. Dungeons. Dynamic Events. It doesn't matter how you try to rationalize it, Guild Wars 2 has plenty of content.

As far as Adrenaline goes, oh yea it souinds good on paper, but thats it. Its pretty horribly implemented. You mentioned boons, thats a cool mechanic on paper. But in the game, the adrenaline gains so fast there is no reason to sit on it at lvl 3. None. You are better off eviserating or something and regening the adrenaline in 5 seconds.

When I was noobing it up, I honestly didnt even realize it took the whole bar to use my burst skill, thats how fast that stuff builds up. I thought it only took a lvl or 2. There is just no reason to sit on it for boons with the speed it regens. Not to mention, there is really no reason in worrying about swapping skills. The only time u really mess with it is if it misses or dodges and goes on cd, then NP swap and use that burst skill. By the time Eviserate is off CD, you will be back at full.

There just isnt any real management to the skill in practice. It turns out spammy like the rest. Not to mention the short CDs, i think 10 seconds, invites just spamming it and using it on cd like everything else.

Maybe if it regen'd slower and the boons were better and you had to make a real choice on eviserating or sitting on it, or a long eviserate cd so blowing it on a miss was crucial, or if it had 2 skills on the bar to choose from for each weapon slot, it would be more manageable.

Its current incarnation doesnt require any real thought. Hit Z on full, and on CD.

There really isnt anything to actually manage in this game besides HP bars and Ults

Now you're contradicting yourself. You said: "If it controlled more then 1 skill, yea it would require some management". It controls multiple skills and confers multiple boons if managed correctly. In fact, there are builds that can be designed to maximize adrenaline's benefits. But, since this absolutely contradicts your point, you backpedal and try to change your argument.

Just because you don't think that adrenaline use requires any thought doesn't mean that you're correct. You may spam it, but that doesn't make it a spam skill. But really, the most important thing here is that you change your argument as soon as you realize that it doesn't work. You set one standard for adrenaline necessitating "resource management". Then, when we inform you that adrenaline meets this standard, you contradict yourself and try to argue your way out of the corner.

Give me 2 months and Ill make that concrete post for you. Its the first month of the game. I can get concrete numbers for the other 3-4 MMOs that released and went to the dumps after two months

Wait. Now you need two months? Look, you already said that the game was suffering based on anecdotal evidence. You've also made baseless declarations like the one that most people think that the combat is completely clunky and unresponsive. Excuse me if I don't trust your assessment of the probability that Guild Wars 2 will fail. Particularly since you're trying to compare the game to MMOs that it doesn't have much in common with.
Reply Quote
[quote]

.


You take half a quote, as usual, and pretend not to be selective. Gotcha. Pot meet Kettle. I havent lost anything, this game has atm 1600 freakin twitch viewers, which is a microcosm of whats happening to the game; the same thing that happened to all the other games.

Every damn game out there isnt a success. Ive been argueing that this game is mediocre from the beginning and small sample sizes are starting to appear. Twitch streams down at least 50%, they are continually under even non xpac wow and Craptastic D3. While thats not a legit sample size to you, its a telling trend for a game less then a month in release.

The number is only gonna get lower in 2 weeks. In a month or 2 this Microcosm is gonna show in the loss of active players if they even release that number. Dont say I didnt tell you so. GW2 has alot of good ideas that they missed the mark on. Happens. WAR had good ideas too. So did HGL, etc. D3 missed its mark as well. Most would consider D3 an absolute failure. But it made a profit.

To me, take it as you want, GW2 will be a mediocre failure that missed the mark, relegated to f2p survival mode so they can attempt to fix the errors they made on GW3 or the next xpac.

There is something called Goodwill that you lose when you screw up, profit or not.


Please show some actual correlation between twitch streams and success. I mean real business numbers here, not your fantasy.

Show me where i said every game is a success. Show anything at all that show you know what you are talking about. Why would i ever say you did not tell me so? You did nto tell me anything but a bunch of guessing and crystal-balling. Pure amusement for me.

You keep saying "most" but never back it up. You have no argument, just opinion. You have no reason to be here, or at least you won't tell us why this is all so important to you.

You did almost or entirely nothing in GW2. Anyone who has played it can see that much, regardless of your claims.

You still think the past equals the future. You make absoulutely no parrallels between these games you mention beyond your opinion.

All you are doing here is keeping the thread high, defeating yourself. Hurray for you.
Reply Quote
Posts: 211

Yes, you did side-step it up until this post. You said that Guild Wars 2 has no endgame. I contradicted you and gave examples. Then you ignored it and moved on to something else. And now your rebuttal is that other games have similar content. So... in order for Guild Wars 2 to meet your standard for having "enough" endgame, it needs to have a massive amount of Level 80 content that no other MMORPG has? Crafting. Exploration. PvP. Orr. Dungeons. Dynamic Events. It doesn't matter how you try to rationalize it, Guild Wars 2 has plenty of content.


Now you're contradicting yourself. You said: "If it controlled more then 1 skill, yea it would require some management". It controls multiple skills and confers multiple boons if managed correctly. In fact, there are builds that can be designed to maximize adrenaline's benefits. But, since this absolutely contradicts your point, you backpedal and try to change your argument.

Just because you don't think that adrenaline use requires any thought doesn't mean that you're correct. You may spam it, but that doesn't make it a spam skill. But really, the most important thing here is that you change your argument as soon as you realize that it doesn't work. You set one standard for adrenaline necessitating "resource management". Then, when we inform you that adrenaline meets this standard, you contradict yourself and try to argue your way out of the corner.


Wait. Now you need two months? Look, you already said that the game was suffering based on anecdotal evidence. You've also made baseless declarations like the one that most people think that the combat is completely clunky and unresponsive. Excuse me if I don't trust your assessment of the probability that Guild Wars 2 will fail. Particularly since you're trying to compare the game to MMOs that it doesn't have much in common with.


Where the hell do you guys keep getting I contradicted myself? I said it looks good on paper, but it regens so fast its not even worth paying attention to managing it. It would be like buying a car with unlimited money, If it took 10 minutes to get 30,000 more dollars, would you hesitate to spend the first 30? Hell no you wouldnt. Whatever built in mechanic like boons there is to manage, is effectively nulled out because there is no reason to actually manage it. There is no real choice. You can eviserate pretty much on CD. Is it really worthwhile to save lvl 3 adrenaline to "manage" boons when itll be full in under 10 seconds, and you will do a boatload of dmg in the meantime? Or Stun? Or whatever?

No. So please tell me where I contradicted myself in stating there is no reason to manage this mess. Its implemented poorly. You dont lose Adrenaline on a miss, or a dodge, and it regens so fast there is no reason to sit on it. Not to mention the benefits of using say, eviserate or kill shot pretty much rule out whatever boons you get.

There is nothing to manage. Eviserate on CD is the name of the game my friend. Why not? You do a billion dmg for 3-5 seconds of minimal boon cost, since again its never empty. As long as you arent stunned and casting crap, you should be sitting at lvl 1 or more after blowing it on Eviserate.

I quoted you. You said: "If it controlled more then 1 skill, yea it would require some management". It does. Now you're saying that doesn't make it something that requires resource management.

You contradicted yourself. I quoted you. There is nothing to argue here.
Reply Quote
Posts: 211

I quoted you. You said: "If it controlled more then 1 skill, yea it would require some management". It does. Now you're saying that doesn't make it something that requires resource management.

You contradicted yourself. I quoted you. There is nothing to argue here.


There is no choice. Again, you are doing stupid ad hominem attacks focusing on minimal reasons to discredit the fact there is no reason to manage whatever boons gives. Go find me a warrior who doesnt use his burst skill on CD, on full adrenaline.

There is no real reason to swap skills. Eviserate or use the other? Who cares, if I use say the great sword burst, and miss, I can eviserate on lvl 3, swap back and use the greatsword skill on CD.

There is nothing at all to manage about adrenaline, besides hitting Z on CD/lvl 3. Go find me a guy who doesnt. Hell Ill go parse the 1600 streamers for a warrior and watch.

There is nothing that I used in that post that was ad hominem. Nothing. I made no personal attack. I merely stated what you said, compared it to what you are now saying, and accurately described it as a contradiction.

Judging by your original standard, adrenaline is a resource that requires management. You're just unwilling to admit that you were wrong (twice) about there being no resource management in Guild Wars 2.

Don't bring twitch into this. Especially since you also said: "There you go again thinking niche=good. It doesnt.". Twitch is a very, very, very small sample. What you might call a "niche". But apparently this niche is good because you think it *might* be able to prove a point for you?
Reply Quote


Please show some actual correlation between twitch streams and success. I mean real business numbers here, not your fantasy.

Show me where i said every game is a success. Show anything at all that show you know what you are talking about. Why would i ever say you did not tell me so? You did nto tell me anything but a bunch of guessing and crystal-balling. Pure amusement for me.

You keep saying "most" but never back it up. You have no argument, just opinion. You have no reason to be here, or at least you won't tell us why this is all so important to you.

You did almost or entirely nothing in GW2. Anyone who has played it can see that much, regardless of your claims.

You still think the past equals the future. You make absoulutely no parrallels between these games you mention beyond your opinion.

All you are doing here is keeping the thread high, defeating yourself. Hurray for you.


Oh yea, Im shaking in my boots at your thoughts of me on a naked D3 account on a videogame forum argueing with a guy buried knee-deep in a niche game. Gotcha. Enjoy that server Merge in your future.


I see you have admitted defeat then? Your rage shows that much. Keep watching your streams, and acting like you played the game.

On topic: GW2 is certainly a good game:
- It has a very high attention to detail, meaning, just about everywhere you go and just about everything you see has a reason for being there
- The combat system is refreshing and fluid from my experience.
- It has many different things to do, for many different styles of play.
- You get your own loot and your own gathering nodes
- No fighting or rolling for loot or crafting nodes, see above.
- No kill steals
- Helping people kill something, does not ruin their XP, nor does it entice them to be angry about losing XP. You both get credit and loot if it drops.
- Helping low level friends and doing low level content is always challenging because of the deleveling in lower areas. I was unsure if I would like this feature, but I do. It keeps all content from becoming trivial, thus extending playability and longevity.
- Really like the guild features
- Crafting is interesting, not ground breaking, but interesting
- Rezzing people gives XP
- PVE is fun
- PVP is fun
There is more, and sure there are some bugs, and negatives that need to be worked out, standard fair. These are my opinions, but all are based upon existing systems in the game.
Reply Quote
I have GW2 but I still spend most of my gaming time on D3. GW2 is a good game but I just find myself a little hard to adept to its graphic arts and controls. It could be very frustrating at time.

First of all, the graphics is very cartoonish. It is like a Japanese Anime with bad Disney clones. The color is too bright, all characters are like prince and princess in Fairy Land and at some point of the game (especially when I am inside a city) the game feels like an out-of-date 2D MMO and it makes me feel like I am playing Everquest1 all over again.

Secondly, I am still having a really hard time trying to control and menuver my characters. There are 8 keys for skills, w/a/s/d/q/e for moving around, hold right mouse button to turn and look around, V for dodge, F for picking stuff... F1/F2/F3/F4 for special skills, and if you have a pet, 4 more keys to worry about.

Combats are usually fast. It can happen and finish in split seconds. For an old man with slow reaction like me, everything can come and go while I am still trying to find the attack key. So, for this reason alone, I bought a 4 buttons mouse and things are a bit easier for me now.

I keep hearing others say GW2 is the next generation of MMO. I am only a week into it and I do not feel that at all. On the contrary, I feel very much like I am back 12 years ago playing EQ1 all over again. It gives me that exact same feeling.
Edited by Fenlius#3910 on 9/15/2012 8:31 PM PDT
Reply Quote
09/15/2012 08:11 PMPosted by Fenlius
Secondly, I am still having a really hard time trying to control and menuver my characters. There are 8 keys for skills, w/a/s/d/q/e for moving around, hold right mouse button to turn and look around, V for dodge, F for picking stuff... F1/F2/F3/F4 for special skills, and if you have a pet, 4 more keys to worry about.


You can change the controls. This is what i did:
-change left strafe to A
-change right strafe to D
-use right mouse to control facing
-double tap W/S/A/D to dodge
-change interact/pick up to E

If you find you are unable to use hotkeys now, use your mouse. Trust me eventually you will want to learn by your self.

09/15/2012 08:11 PMPosted by Fenlius
Combats are usually fast. It can happen and finish in split seconds. For an old man with slow reaction like me, everything can come and go while I am still trying to find the attack key. So, for this reason alone, I bought a 4 buttons mouse and things are a bit easier for me now.


diablo 3 combat is faster dude... you can die from full health anytime in 2 to 4 sec (or 2 hits). And you cant run away in diablo 3. MMO's are meant to be competitive because you are not playing alone. Being old doesn't mean you have slow reaction, its how you are so unmotivated to explore and challenge yourself.
Edited by TheCursed#6888 on 9/17/2012 8:51 PM PDT
Reply Quote


diablo 3 combat is faster dude... you can die from full health anytime in 2 to 4 sec (or 2 hits). And you cant run away in diablo 3. MMO's are meant to be competitive because you are not playing alone. Being old doesn't mean you have slow reaction, its how you are so unmotivated to explore and challenge yourself.


A bit quick on the judgement there young one aren't you ? But that's how it always worked - the youth judging and blaming us elders - it's a force of nature.

Motivation exists at all ages - it differs. When you have 10 hours per week max to play because of other important things in life, you want to make the best of them. Exploring and challenging yourself can be part of that - or not. Sometimes it's the social aspect. You'll understand that when you'll get here.

Anyway - I'm confident Fenlius will keep on playing GW2 once he discovers something that he likes. See, the opinions of the "older ones" are less quick to make and less extreme in intensity. The fact that he names some aspects he does not like in his subjective experience doesn't mean he's discarding the game completely.
Edited by Maegglin#1669 on 9/16/2012 6:15 AM PDT
Reply Quote


diablo 3 combat is faster dude... you can die from full health anytime in 2 to 4 sec (or 2 hits). And you cant run away in diablo 3. MMO's are meant to be competitive because you are not playing alone. Being old doesn't mean you have slow reaction, its how you are so unmotivated to explore and challenge yourself.


A bit quick on the judgement there young one aren't you ? But that's how it always worked - the youth judging and blaming us elders - it's a force of nature.

Motivation exists at all ages - it differs. When you have 10 hours per week max to play because of other important things in life, you want to make the best of them. Exploring and challenging yourself can be part of that - or not. Sometimes it's the social aspect. You'll understand that when you'll get here.

Anyway - I'm confident Fenlius will keep on playing GW2 once he discovers something that he likes. See, the opinions of the "older ones" are less quick to make and less extreme in intensity. The fact that he names some aspects he does not like in his subjective experience doesn't mean he's discarding the game completely.


Excuse me. Where did i say im commenting as a "young one"? Im 30 years old and work and manage a team of professionals. I suport my family. So I play 1-3 hours a day. Dont patronize me just because you read 1 line and didnt bothered to read the rest of what i said.

I am merely saying he is contradicting him self because he said that he is unable to cope with gw2 combat which is slower(and more strategic) but has no problems with diablo3 (and WoW) which is instant, because. I am also reminding him(something all players do) that you can change the controls to suit themselves.

Fenlius:
For an old man with slow reaction like me, everything can come and go while I am still trying to find the attack key.


If anything, i am insulted because he implies that I(and everybody above 30) need games to be slower paced to be enjoyed!
Edited by TheCursed#6888 on 9/16/2012 8:17 PM PDT
Reply Quote
My fault. I am not stating my opinion clearly. D3 is easy for me because I only have to deal with 7 buttons whereas in GW2 I have to deal with 15 to 20 buttons which can be quite frustrating at time since I am not used to binding keys, macroing keys and positioning my fingers for the best reaction etc.

I apologize for making it sounds like the majority of mature players have the same problem. Really, it is just me and just my personal opinion, nothing more.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Warlock
13705
Posts: 394
I hate Guild Wars 2, i tried to like it but when it really comes down to it, it feels like a Single Player RPG converted to a partial MMO with a "oh look its a MMO thats is free". The combat is pretty much a spam fest i tried the elementialist and the necro and it just felt like spamming the same set of skills as quickly as they come available and people blah blah about it takes skill my !@# from everything i read in forums off web sites and talking with friends and just watching my friends play the game its just like any other RPG. The random events and quests just feel like a big cluster $%^- same goes with the PVP and all the running around and instance loading and a very bland way to give direction of the game gets really old. I really dont see what is so amazing about GW2 other then its new, and yes it is free but they will get your 15$ a month one way or the other i can guarentee that and without any direction of main end game my guess is it will lose its cool a month or so down the road just like every other MMO. Just like the last 7+ mmos that have come out in the years the game is so amazing for the first few months and then the real replayability comes in and most fail besides for the hardcore loyal fan base. Just face it the genra is getting old, I just wish a company would break the MMO mold and completely change the MMO genra other then the obviously scams like Free to play bs..
Reply Quote
Don't be a fan boy... GW2 have flaws.. but any of the thing you say there are..

I hate Guild Wars 2, i tried to like it but when it really comes down to it, it feels like a Single Player RPG converted to a partial MMO with a "oh look its a MMO thats is free".


??? It's not free.. and it is a MMO. Try soloing BGs, WvWvW, Dungeons, Group/World events... you are saying nonsense.

09/16/2012 11:38 PMPosted by Sheara
The combat is pretty much a spam fest i tried the elementialist and the necro and it just felt like spamming the same set of skills as quickly as they come available and people blah blah about it takes skill my !@# from everything i read in forums off web sites and talking with friends and just watching my friends play the game its just like any other RPG.


What? Try to kill 1 veteran.. with only spamming one key. I think you are talking about others MMOs. I use the full set of skill (15+4 in death shroud as a necromancer) + dodge to make a safe kill without complications.

The random events and quests just feel like a big cluster $%^- same goes with the PVP and all the running around and instance loading and a very bland way to give direction of the game gets really old. I really dont see what is so amazing about GW2 other then its new,


Ok... thats an opinion.

09/16/2012 11:38 PMPosted by Sheara
and yes it is free but they will get your 15$ a month one way or the other i can guarentee that


Saying again that is Free only shows that you know anything about the game.. just spamming comments of other people without knowledge. It's BUY TO PLAY. And nobody force you to spend any cent more.

09/16/2012 11:38 PMPosted by Sheara
without any direction of main end game my guess is it will lose its cool a month or so down the road just like every other MMO.


Ok, thats another opinion. My opinion:

In wow, what do you do when you are not raiding?
* Stay in orgri/storm doing nothing? Yes.. that is fun.
* PvP ? Ok, GW2 got it.
* Increase crafting? Crafting in GW2 is a much more fun. A lot.
* Increase Fishing? Ohh god WHY!?
Making Alts? Yes.. GRINDING, GRINDING, GRINDING mobs/quest to max level as fast as you could because there is nothing more interesting to do. In GW2 you can reach max level with PVP, Crafting, EXPLORING(without makin a quest), a bit of grinding, maybe, but rushing a dungeon, two times, means 1 level up.
* Exploring? Ok, you are goning to tell that exploring in wow is as fun as gw2?
Besides, doing all this stuff take much less time. MUCH. why? Because the trick of Blizzard is TIME. All the thing you want to do, takes time. And thats is more MONEY.
They had to add pokemon because there is nothing more to do besides raiding. They remove the limit cap of diary quest because of this too.

Again, i love both games, but in GW2 i feel free. Everything is rewarded, nothing has ever felt like wasting time.

09/16/2012 11:38 PMPosted by Sheara
Just like the last 7+ mmos that have come out in the years the game is so amazing for the first few months and then the real replayability comes in and most fail besides for the hardcore loyal fan base.


I have played several of these new MMOs and no one is like GW2...

09/16/2012 11:38 PMPosted by Sheara
Just face it the genra is getting old, I just wish a company would break the MMO mold and completely change the MMO genra other then the obviously scams like Free to play bs..


Sigh... you talk about change and play WoW and talk !@#$ about others MMO without knowing? ok..
Reply Quote
Fenlius,

Its cool. Yeah, combat is technically simpler in diablo3(i misunderstood because you started with how GW is faster), its more action based compared to GW2. And as long as yo dont intend to beat inferno, diablo3 is good as a casual game. GW2 lets me better experiment with it. As i mentioned, i still use my mouse for GW2 F1>F4 keys, no shame in that.

As for the camera, i can also understand that it takes some getting use to. The only other games that requires you to rightclick drag to change camera facing are NeverwinterNights1 & 2 and GW1. Eventually i find the advantage to it, i can look sideways without turning my avatar. There is one problem though, in small rooms, the camera is forced to zoom in and thus my sight range is reduced.
Edited by TheCursed#6888 on 9/17/2012 8:53 PM PDT
Reply Quote
09/16/2012 11:38 PMPosted by Sheara
I hate Guild Wars 2, i tried to like it but when it really comes down to it, it feels like a Single Player RPG converted to a partial MMO with a "oh look its a MMO thats is free". The combat is pretty much a spam fest i tried the elementialist and the necro and it just felt like spamming the same set of skills as quickly as they come available and people blah blah about it takes skill my !@# from everything i read in forums off web sites and talking with friends and just watching my friends play the game its just like any other RPG. The random events and quests just feel like a big cluster $%^- same goes with the PVP and all the running around and instance loading and a very bland way to give direction of the game gets really old. I really dont see what is so amazing about GW2 other then its new, and yes it is free but they will get your 15$ a month one way or the other i can guarentee that and without any direction of main end game my guess is it will lose its cool a month or so down the road just like every other MMO. Just like the last 7+ mmos that have come out in the years the game is so amazing for the first few months and then the real replayability comes in and most fail besides for the hardcore loyal fan base. Just face it the genra is getting old, I just wish a company would break the MMO mold and completely change the MMO genra other then the obviously scams like Free to play bs..


The fact that GW2 (emphasis on 2) follows the business model of GW1 renders everything you said irrelevant.

The fact you would would rather pay USD15 per month for a year for the same service you can get for free shows you are what humans call a 'sucker'.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]