Diablo® III

+x% Elemental Damage mechanic: blue clarify!

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Hmmm. +X% cold/lightning/fire/arcane triggers Wizard passives instead of buffs Wizard spells?

If so, I must find some things that add cold...
Edited by PAV#1876 on 9/1/2012 11:24 AM PDT
Can you please explain why it is coded to add 2 * (x%) min damage instead of x% min + x% max?

Note: I have personally done the math and I can tell you, without doubt, that it currently adds 2 * (x%) min and ignores the max damage on your wep.


I've reached out to our developers, programmers, and QA about the current functionality. Once I have more information, I'll respond back to the thread.

Thank you for pointing this out!
Hmmm. +X% cold/lightning/fire/arcane triggers Wizard passives instead of buffs Wizard spells?

If so, I must find some things that add cold...


Ive wondered this. Because if magic missle has 100% coefficient, and if the tal rasha amulet adds cold damage or if the trium adds lightning damage, would it in fact proc our passives?
Hmmm. +X% cold/lightning/fire/arcane triggers Wizard passives instead of buffs Wizard spells?

If so, I must find some things that add cold...


Ive wondered this. Because if magic missle has 100% coefficient, and if the tal rasha amulet adds cold damage or if the trium adds lightning damage, would it in fact proc our passives?


I'd assumed so but since you mention, it'd be good if a blue can clarify this. Then maybe I can drop that Frost Hydra for Teleport or something.
Hmmm. +X% cold/lightning/fire/arcane triggers Wizard passives instead of buffs Wizard spells?

If so, I must find some things that add cold...


Ive wondered this. Because if magic missle has 100% coefficient, and if the tal rasha amulet adds cold damage or if the trium adds lightning damage, would it in fact proc our passives?

Unfortunately Magic Missile deals damage as Arcane, meaning it overrides any other damage type that your weapon or other equipment would provide.

You could use Spectral Blades and keep the bonus damage types - that is the one spell (I don't think Wizard has any others) that doesn't have its own damage type.
08/31/2012 11:43 AMPosted by Lylirra
If you have any suggestions for how this affix could be better worded, we're definitely interested in your suggestions. Just keep in mind that space is limited in item tooltips, and that whatever we use would need to be translated into all of our supported languages.


+x% weapon damage as <element>
The stat on Stormcrow, Tal's ammy, SoJ, Zuni boots, etc.... increases the MINIMUM damage on your wep by:
2 * x% <element> * MINIMUM weapon damage

...

1. You have a wep that does 100-200 damage and NO stats.

-Zuni's boots will add 2 * 0.05 * 100 = 0.1 * 100 = 10 POISON damage to the MINIMUM damage of your wep.
-Now your wep does 110-200 damage. 10 of which is poison.

...

-Druin, the happy monk


I am confused here. So you are saying that +x% Elemental damage adds 2 times x% to your minimum damage, but adds ZERO to your maximum damage? That does not seem right.

Based on this, if my Physical damage for an individual attack rolled at 100, then the Zuni's boots would add 10 Poison damage to that and I would have 100 Physical + 10 Poison = 110 damage. But, if another single attack rolled a Physical damage of 200, then Zuni's boots would add 10 Poison, and, what, I would LOSE 10 Physical damage??
The stat on Stormcrow, Tal's ammy, SoJ, Zuni boots, etc.... increases the MINIMUM damage on your wep by:
2 * x% <element> * MINIMUM weapon damage

...

1. You have a wep that does 100-200 damage and NO stats.

-Zuni's boots will add 2 * 0.05 * 100 = 0.1 * 100 = 10 POISON damage to the MINIMUM damage of your wep.
-Now your wep does 110-200 damage. 10 of which is poison.

...
It is 110-210 (100*.1=10; 200+10=210)
-Druin, the happy monk


I am confused here. So you are saying that +x% Elemental damage adds 2 times x% to your minimum damage, but adds ZERO to your maximum damage? That does not seem right.

Based on this, if my Physical damage for an individual attack rolled at 100, then the Zuni's boots would add 10 Poison damage to that and I would have 100 Physical + 10 Poison = 110 damage. But, if another single attack rolled a Physical damage of 200, then Zuni's boots would add 10 Poison, and, what, I would LOSE 10 Physical damage??
- Diablo III (Monk)
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I am confused here. So you are saying that +x% Elemental damage adds 2 times x% to your minimum damage, but adds ZERO to your maximum damage? That does not seem right.

Based on this, if my Physical damage for an individual attack rolled at 100, then the Zuni's boots would add 10 Poison damage to that and I would have 100 Physical + 10 Poison = 110 damage. But, if another single attack rolled a Physical damage of 200, then Zuni's boots would add 10 Poison, and, what, I would LOSE 10 Physical damage??


Oops!

I think I understand what you are saying, I was thinking of this in terms of DPS and not the actual values on your weapon. However, it is silly to assume that it ACTUALLY adds the damage to your minimum twice because that wouldn't make any sense (the example you gave is perfect for explaining this).

However, the overall DPS change is the same, it just should be looked at as adding (x% * MIN) to MIN and (x% * MIN) to MAX.

Ex. With 5% Zuni boots:
1. 100-200 damage wep
Becomes 105-205

2. 100-200 damage wep with +100min +200 max affix
Becomes 210-410 wep

3. 100-200 damage wep with +100-200 lighting damage affix
Becomes 205-405 damage wep

Sorry about that confusion, there is virtually no way it could ACTUALLY be adding all the damage to your MIN value. It just makes the math work to do so ... I will update my spreadsheet to reflect this.

Thanks for pointing it out!!!

-Druin, the happy monk

Note: There is no way to tell that this is actually the case with math because the paperdoll DPS is the same with either formula, I am merely assuming it works this way because it wouldn't make any sense for it to actually just add 2 * x% to MIN :P
add x % of physical dmg as element.
Edited by koez#1816 on 9/1/2012 3:10 PM PDT
ROFL

Seriously, pay someone who is fluent in the language utilized. The current wording of the affix is nothing (NOTHING) like how it is stated to work in this post.

On a side note, I actually thought stuff like this was supposed to help create unique builds. You know get a plus fire damage weapon and spec fire wizard, or whatever. I guess not, eh. So nothing for unique builds in this game?
Now you know why they have dyes, because they knew we would all end up wearing the same generic equipment in the end anyways.
How do so many people not understand, even after a blue post.

READ:

If you have a weapon that gets 50% of its DPS from an element, then only HALF of the weapon's damage would be affected by this affix. How is that hard to understand? So a weapon that does 500-1000 damage TOTAL, with an affix on it that adds 250-500 poison damage, that means that the OTHER 250-500 damage (physical) would get a bonus from the +% elemental damage affix.

This affix is retarded in the way it works, because it's like saying that if you have 50% more beer, you really have 50% more vodka instead. How the hell is "50% more beer" not giving you 1.5x the amount of beer you already have? Instead it gives you 50% more beer based on the amount of vodka you have????
Edited by PackersFTW#1402 on 9/1/2012 6:48 PM PDT
- Diablo III (Monk)
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How do so many people not understand, even after a blue post.

READ:

If you have a weapon that gets 50% of its DPS from an element, then only HALF of the weapon's damage would be affected by this affix. How is that hard to understand? So a weapon that does 500-1000 damage TOTAL, with an affix on it that adds 250-500 poison damage, that means that the OTHER 250-500 damage (physical) would get a bonus from the +% elemental damage affix.

This affix is retarded in the way it works, because it's like saying that if you have 50% more beer, you really have 50% more vodka instead. How the hell is "50% more beer" not giving you 1.5x the amount of beer you already have? Instead it gives you 50% more beer based on the amount of vodka you have????


+1 for alcohol!

~Druin~

People ... CALM DOWN.

The stat we are discussing in the thread reads "Adds x% to <elemental> damage"
Example: Zunimassa's Trail http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/zunimassas-trail
[snip]
3. You have a wep that does 100-200 damage with a 100-200 FIRE damage stat.
-This wep tooltip READS as doing 200-400 damage.
-Zuni's boots will add 2 * 0.05 * 100 BASE = 10 POISON damage to the MINIMUM damage of your wep.
-Now your wep does 210 - 400 damage 10 of which is poison and 100-200 of which is fire.


/facepalm

Am I to understand that I am being a complete idiot for using exclusively weapons with + Holy Damage because Inna's Blessing http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/innas-blessing includes the affix "Adds 5-6% to Holy Damage"?

Sounds about right. I should be calming down any moment now.

BTW, I very much appreciate the tedious empirical testing done to extract this information, even if the results are somewhat mystifying. Until now, I didn't think the affix description was ambiguous at all, but, if this analysis is correct, the description is unambiguously wrong.

Advocates of a change to "Adds X% Damage as <element>" are on the right track. Based on the math, perhaps this:

"Adds 10-12% Minimum Physical Damage as Holy"

With the caveat that additional wording is needed if the bonus applies to elemental damage inflicted by skills, such as the Fulminating Onslaught explosions of Seven-Sided Strike. Does it?

~PackersFTW~

How do so many people not understand, even after a blue post.

READ:

If you have a weapon that gets 50% of its DPS from an element, then only HALF of the weapon's damage would be affected by this affix. How is that hard to understand? So a weapon that does 500-1000 damage TOTAL, with an affix on it that adds 250-500 poison damage, that means that the OTHER 250-500 damage (physical) would get a bonus from the +% elemental damage affix.

This affix is retarded in the way it works, because it's like saying that if you have 50% more beer, you really have 50% more vodka instead. How the hell is "50% more beer" not giving you 1.5x the amount of beer you already have? Instead it gives you 50% more beer based on the amount of vodka you have????


Beautifully stated. I find myself wondering whether the programmer coded the intended (designed?) effect incorrectly, or whether the tooltip writer just misunderstood the complexity of the situation.

In any event, changing the tooltip for a bonus which makes absolutely no sense is not a very satisfying solution. How about fixing the code so that beer is beer, vodka is vodka, and let the description stand?

---------
Edited to manually add attribution at top of quote (it displayed correctly in preview!).
Edited by truthseeker#1278 on 9/1/2012 11:24 PM PDT
- Diablo III (Monk)
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Please ask them to make it work with elemental damage on weapons because that is totally unfair and makes no sense to me why it wouldn't.

Also will +poison damage and a skill giving off physical damage like grasp of the dead activate the -20% enemy damage from bad Medicine?


bump


You will have to test this, but when I equipped a phsical only sword, then equipped my zuni boots and killed stuff with basic auto attacks, it made the poison death animation on monsters.

I honestly don't know how to test weather or not it is actually DOING psn damage ... but I know it made it LOOK like it is :D

I would assume, as long as your wep doesn't have an element attached to it, zuni boots would make grasp do psn damage, yes.
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