Diablo® III

Upcoming Change to Trail of Cinders

People started having fun with new vault and having fun is against blizz tos, needed a nerf.

Time to reroll barb i guess
Edited by Void#2731 on 8/31/2012 5:19 PM PDT
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08/31/2012 05:11 PMPosted by Cam
No. Not everyone has it. Unless you're quite tanky or lots of +discipline, it becomes quite clear you can easily get yourself killed by using it.

Actually most players still use Vault + ToC as a defensive / kitting ability.

This, people should feel shame for thinking it is only good for tankier players. It was the only ability I had that made kiting feel bearable again. I'm hoping it still does that after the change.
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08/31/2012 05:10 PMPosted by Lylirra
Agree not a bug a bug is something that is doing something not as intended. It is dealing 1500% damage it is working as it was designed.


The fire on the ground deals damage 5 times a second, and we set a value for how much damage we wanted Trail of Cinders to do in that period of time. Unfortunately, that value was incorrectly added to the individual ticks. So, the amount of damage currently done by each of those 5 ticks is actually the total amount of damage it's supposed to do over the entire second. That part is a bug.

We didn't catch this during testing, which is absolutely our fault. There are still very good reasons for fixing this issue, and they're outlined in the main post.


OK, so your saying basically you still want it to do 1500% damage over its full duration, and not per tick, that's fine, so the tool tip was right, and you just have to fix the mechanics on your side right?

My understanding is, you wanted it to do 1500% weapon damage over 3 secs, but actually it was doing 5 times that = 7500% over 3 seconds? So if the initial goal was 1500%, why in the hell you guys throwing out numbers like 300%?

Why don't we get back to an actual 1500% first?
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This game is becoming less and less enjoyable. Every time I login I question why I bother.
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It was definitely OP but lots of fun. What was the % before the patch?
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Those of you who think 300% over 3s is bad, you need to think again. Vault is a DEFENSIVE skill that offers "some" damage. Think of it as a bonus damage just like Action Shot which does 75% x 4.

You can't possibly think 1500% over 3s is acceptable.

It is against the design because Vault is NOT an offensive skill. You want offense? Look at your hatred spenders. I am glad they fixed this because it is odd and ridiculous. I team with DHs that jump in dealing great damage and then die all of sudden.

I approve this change. 300% over 3s is still very good. Most "defensive" skills that have damage rune deal similar damage. WD's spiritual walk does 225% over seconds (but has 15s cd) and Diamond Skin explodes for 210% damage. Why should Trail of Cinders do 1500% over 3s?

I really don't know why some DHs didn't see this coming... Consider it lucky that Blizzard is giving you a warning before they nerf it. And they already admitted their mistake. Give them a break geeze.
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 8/31/2012 5:22 PM PDT
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This is a bit of a shame for me, I seriously enjoyed playing a DH again.

08/31/2012 04:43 PMPosted by Lylirra
Discipline-based skills were never intended to trump Hatred-based skills when it comes to dealing damage. Instead, Discipline should be something you build up and save to use defensively, or to provide utility in addition to dealing damage. Allowing Trail of Cinders to remain in its current form goes against this philosophy


I know its early days for this game, but I hope that you will allow for some evolution in the characters you guys have made. I mean, why not allow for a switch in playstyle for those that choose it. Since the patch, I have been using TOC as an offensive and putting my char in danger as a result, but its way more fun than keeping my distance.

Please don't set all your ideas in stone yet, there may be much better way to go about it... or at least give us the freedom to choose.

Thanks for the heads-up though.
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screw it am just gonna go play GW2, Had enough of my DH getting nerfed
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And don't forget to nerf ToH proc coefs, since it's the last skill that proc decent LoH and CCs values ....
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NOOOOO... PLZ NO.....<crys>
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just some food for thought:

300% over 3 seconds is pretty much back to not being useful again. I think we all saw it coming at 1500% over 3 seconds, but why such a drastic change?

Think about this though, would you I, or anyone want to wait 3 seconds for 300% dmg? We all know it was fun, I can't dispute that at all, but why can't it be "competitive damage" with other skills? Something in-between "useless" and "op." Something like 500% over 3 seconds is more reasonable. Monsters will NOT stand still for 3 seconds, and it's very annoying to actually target it properly (to take advantage of the full duration)

I think making skills competative against the mainstream skills is the philosophy behind 1.0.4, and you also recognize that this skill is really fun. I don't think you should care whether ToC is risky for the player - that's dumb, but if you want 1.0.3 philosophy and design goals with build diversity and all that good stuff, I think 300%/3sec is too low.

Just my 2 cents. Take it for what it's worth, from someone who plays a lot.
Edited by MysticaL#1298 on 8/31/2012 6:36 PM PDT
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How long til this game moves to open beta?

Seriously it's a fricken joke that this game got released in the state it did. So much wrong with it. If you make us pay for it, how bout you have a polished product. Pathetic.
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I'm glad they're reducing the damage. The damage was absurd for something that you could spam, specially since there is low risk if you play it with smoke screen, you get invulnerable massive damage roll. Also, when you combined it with SS, you lost the incentive to ever attack anything. Ex. my DH does about 93k with SS, lets say weapon damage closer to 80k (if you reduce as to 1/second). That would mean as long as I don't attack and leave my SS at 100% crit my trail of cinders was dealing 1,200,000 damage over 3 seconds. That is straight up stupid compared to all the other skills I have. Why would I ever shoot anything when my dps drops to 30k after a crit when i can deal 400k dps instead.
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Dear Over worked, under paid, and un-appreciated sw team. Thanks for outing this. Please remember that the yahoo's who complain about the code have not idea how complex qc is.

If it was easy you wouldn't be paid.

PS: Remind your bosses that programmers work better, longer, and faster when fed good food for free...or at least have them bring in a cooler!!!
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Give us back jagged spikes in exchange for Trail of Cinders. I don't see anyone complaining about it then.
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08/31/2012 05:20 PMPosted by redstone
And don't forget to nerf ToH proc coefs, since it's the last skill that proc decent LoH and CCs values ....


Don't give them any ideas!
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Community Manager
08/31/2012 05:19 PMPosted by Tybudd
My understanding is, you wanted it to do 1500% weapon damage over 3 secs, but actually it was doing 5 times that = 7500% over 3 seconds? So if the initial goal was 1500%, why in the hell you guys throwing out numbers like 300%?


Not quite. =/

We originally wanted Trail of Cinders to deal 300% weapon damage over 3 seconds (or approximately 100% weapon damage each second). What ended up happening, is that -- instead of the rune doing only 100% weapon damage each second -- it now does 100% weapon damage each tick. The fire damage ticks 5 times each second, so 15 ticks for the entire duration of the spell. That's 1500% weapon damage, or 5 times more damage than originally designed.

I know its early days for this game, but I hope that you will allow for some evolution in the characters you guys have made. I mean, why not allow for a switch in playstyle for those that choose it. Since the patch, I have been using TOC as an offensive and putting my char in danger as a result, but its way more fun than keeping my distance.

Please don't set all your ideas in stone yet, there may be much better way to go about it... or at least give us the freedom to choose.


This is definitely feedback I will be relaying back to the developers. Thank you for sharing it. :)
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I gotta rush quickly to get to Act III with my craptastic gear while I can use ToC to get through the Belial battle and then get crushed in Act III wink, wink :)
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