Diablo® III

how will the cc changes affect soft cc?

edit2:
after scanning through the thread, i was pretty appalled at how uninformed and/or unintelligent some of the responses are. so, if you dont know why im asking what im asking, please take a look at the recent dev blog before reading anything else here:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/7100052/Developer_Journal_Crowd_Control_Changes-9_5_2012

no, blizzard isnt nerfing cc. theyre buffing our skills, some of the ones we dont use because they suck in inferno. however, i differentiate between "hard cc" and "soft cc" rather than "cc" and "snares" because my definition comes from my league of legends experience rather than ... what, wow or wc3 probably? so reading the dev blog, i automatically assumed slows were cc as well, but that isnt the case at blizzard. (but whether well get buffs to slows is still up in the air... please do!)

as for caltrops: torturous ground... well i hope lylirra or another blue peeks at the thread again to clarify if the immobilize will be subject to diminishing returns! id suspect it will.

--------------------------------------

more specifically, blizzard totally forgot about a situation... everything in the blog is about stuns.

example:
a soloing ____ is using a cold weapon follower (or cold stone of jordan). followers always aggro on mobs before you (which is a problem in itself), so it starts autoattacking the next closest mob, applying the soft cc.

what happens when the player uses a hard cc? is it reduced?

soft cc isnt very useful to melee classes (situational), but hard cc is almost always invaluable. would a barbs ground stomp stun length get cut by 30% because his enchantress is overly willing to start a permaslow rotation and he doesnt choose to keep his only gap closer in his skill set?

will the caltrops: torturous ground kiting dh's get the full effect of the root (another hard cc) if they run a cold bow scoundrel? will any cold wielding follower screw over frost novas? horrify? blind (since d3's version of blind amounts to a stun)?

edit: thanks lylirra!
Edited by insanemaniac#1818 on 9/7/2012 6:53 PM PDT
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This is blizzard, where snares are not considered cc in diminishing returns calculations.
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Community Manager
09/05/2012 03:08 PMPosted by insanemaniac
what happens when the player uses a hard cc? is it reduced?


The following CC types will be affected by diminishing returns (and, in turn, will increase a monster's CC resistance):
  • Blind, Freeze, Stun, Charm, and Fear
  • Environmental CC effects (e.g. falling chandeliers)
  • Item-based CC (e.g. Chance to Blind/Fear/Freeze/Stun on Hit)

This applies for followers, as well.

09/05/2012 03:20 PMPosted by Gewalt
This is blizzard, where snares are not considered cc in diminishing returns calculations.


Correct. Movement speed slows, knockbacks, snares, chills from Cold damage won't be affected by DR or add to a monster's CC resistance.

Speaking more specifically, movement slows are handled differently than CC (this is because of persistent area effects that slow monsters who walk through them, like Caltrops). While it makes sense to reduce the duration of a stun, for example, it doesn't make sense to reduce the "duration" of the slow from Caltrops because the slow affects you for as long as you're in the area of effect.

So, movement speed slows are instead reduced in effectiveness at higher difficulty levels. Since we're buffing other forms of CC, what we're currently experimenting with internally (this is all still under development) is reducing how much we penalize movement slows. Specifically, in Inferno, slows are reduced by 40% (e.g. a 60% movement slow is reduced to a 36% movement slow). We are experimenting with a 25% reduction instead. So, a 60% movement slow would be reduced to a 45% movement slow.
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09/06/2012 06:57 PMPosted by Lylirra
So, movement speed slows are instead reduced in effectiveness at higher difficulty levels. Since we're buffing other forms of CC, what we're currently experimenting with internally (this is all still under development) is reducing how much we penalize movement slows. Specifically, in Inferno, slows are reduced by 40% (e.g. a 60% movement slow is reduced to a 36% movement slow). We are experimenting with a 25% reduction instead. So, a 60% movement slow would be reduced to a 45% movement slow.


nice to hear
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09/06/2012 06:57 PMPosted by Lylirra
what happens when the player uses a hard cc? is it reduced?


The following CC types will be affected by diminishing returns (and, in turn, will increase a monster's CC resistance):
  • Blind, Freeze, Stun, Charm, and Fear
  • Environmental CC effects (e.g. falling chandeliers)
  • Item-based CC (e.g. Chance to Blind/Fear/Freeze/Stun on Hit)

This applies for followers, as well.

This is blizzard, where snares are not considered cc in diminishing returns calculations.


Correct. Movement speed slows, knockbacks, snares, chills from Cold damage won't be affected by DR or add to a monster's CC resistance.

Speaking more specifically, movement slows are handled differently than CC (this is because of persistent area effects that slow monsters who walk through them, like Caltrops). While it makes sense to reduce the duration of a stun, for example, it doesn't make sense to reduce the "duration" of the slow from Caltrops because the slow affects you for as long as you're in the area of effect.

So, movement speed slows are instead reduced in effectiveness at higher difficulty levels. Since we're buffing other forms of CC, what we're currently experimenting with internally (this is all still under development) is reducing how much we penalize movement slows. Specifically, in Inferno, slows are reduced by 40% (e.g. a 60% movement slow is reduced to a 36% movement slow). We are experimenting with a 25% reduction instead. So, a 60% movement slow would be reduced to a 45% movement slow.


Please try to do something for slows. The super fast elite mobs (stupid tongue lickers) are a pain since they don't seem to be slowed down at all in inferno.
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09/06/2012 06:57 PMPosted by Lylirra
So, movement speed slows are instead reduced in effectiveness at higher difficulty levels. Since we're buffing other forms of CC, what we're currently experimenting with internally (this is all still under development) is reducing how much we penalize movement slows. Specifically, in Inferno, slows are reduced by 40% (e.g. a 60% movement slow is reduced to a 36% movement slow). We are experimenting with a 25% reduction instead. So, a 60% movement slow would be reduced to a 45% movement slow.

I might start using Clatrops again if this happens.
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Wait, they are playing around with the thought of allowing movement slows to visually affect the movement speed of things? That would certainly beat the current situation where dropping caltrops to slow mobs while having 20% runspeed and still having every mob outrun you by a long shot. I stopped playing my DH solo ages ago, because I really couldn't kite at all with my kiting class because I couldn't outrun any of the mobs I wanted to kite even dropping a chain of slows behind me.
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09/06/2012 06:57 PMPosted by Lylirra
Correct. Movement speed slows, knockbacks, snares, chills from Cold damage won't be affected by DR or add to a monster's CC resistance.


This should have been stated in the dev journal. I was under the impression snares were also affected.
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09/06/2012 06:57 PMPosted by Lylirra
Since we're buffing other forms of CC, what we're currently experimenting with internally (this is all still under development) is reducing how much we penalize movement slows. Specifically, in Inferno, slows are reduced by 40% (e.g. a 60% movement slow is reduced to a 36% movement slow). We are experimenting with a 25% reduction instead. So, a 60% movement slow would be reduced to a 45% movement slow.


OMG DO THIS. DO IT NOW.

I love my slow effects. I think there is a sweet spot where you feel that your slows matter, but it doesn't make the game trivial. It's not quite there yet, but I think we could get there with a few tweaks like this one.

I stopped playing my DH solo ages ago, because I really couldn't kite at all with my kiting class because I couldn't outrun any of the mobs I wanted to kite even dropping a chain of slows behind me.


I'm in the same boat on my DH. I loved using caltrops all through the difficulties, but it became readily apparent in Inferno it was mostly pointless. :(
Edited by Ignatius#1870 on 9/6/2012 7:12 PM PDT
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Eventually the majority of people will have 100k+ and just melt elites. So why is the CC even being messed with? Its being abused right now? Well god forbid some squishy wiz use something to stay alive. That class is horrible and im not sure many can even solo without dieing every 25 seconds. Let people have their stuns....yawn....
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09/06/2012 07:11 PMPosted by Zaino
Let people have their stuns....yawn....


Um. That is what they are doing. Are you another one who didn't read the article? Yawn.
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All hail Blizzard, weilder of the unessesary game changing nerf bat.

How about you guys focus on bringing back DH build diversity, or something else that might actually be usefull?

Just saying...
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09/06/2012 06:57 PMPosted by Lylirra
what happens when the player uses a hard cc? is it reduced?


The following CC types will be affected by diminishing returns (and, in turn, will increase a monster's CC resistance):
  • Blind, Freeze, Stun, Charm, and Fear
  • Environmental CC effects (e.g. falling chandeliers)
  • Item-based CC (e.g. Chance to Blind/Fear/Freeze/Stun on Hit)

This applies for followers, as well.

This is blizzard, where snares are not considered cc in diminishing returns calculations.


Correct. Movement speed slows, knockbacks, snares, chills from Cold damage won't be affected by DR or add to a monster's CC resistance.

Speaking more specifically, movement slows are handled differently than CC (this is because of persistent area effects that slow monsters who walk through them, like Caltrops). While it makes sense to reduce the duration of a stun, for example, it doesn't make sense to reduce the "duration" of the slow from Caltrops because the slow affects you for as long as you're in the area of effect.

So, movement speed slows are instead reduced in effectiveness at higher difficulty levels. Since we're buffing other forms of CC, what we're currently experimenting with internally (this is all still under development) is reducing how much we penalize movement slows. Specifically, in Inferno, slows are reduced by 40% (e.g. a 60% movement slow is reduced to a 36% movement slow). We are experimenting with a 25% reduction instead. So, a 60% movement slow would be reduced to a 45% movement slow.


Jesus !@#$ and here I thought frost arrow was good
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what happens when the player uses a hard cc? is it reduced?


The following CC types will be affected by diminishing returns (and, in turn, will increase a monster's CC resistance):
  • Blind, Freeze, Stun, Charm, and Fear
  • Environmental CC effects (e.g. falling chandeliers)
  • Item-based CC (e.g. Chance to Blind/Fear/Freeze/Stun on Hit)

This applies for followers, as well.

This is blizzard, where snares are not considered cc in diminishing returns calculations.


Correct. Movement speed slows, knockbacks, snares, chills from Cold damage won't be affected by DR or add to a monster's CC resistance.

Speaking more specifically, movement slows are handled differently than CC (this is because of persistent area effects that slow monsters who walk through them, like Caltrops). While it makes sense to reduce the duration of a stun, for example, it doesn't make sense to reduce the "duration" of the slow from Caltrops because the slow affects you for as long as you're in the area of effect.

So, movement speed slows are instead reduced in effectiveness at higher difficulty levels. Since we're buffing other forms of CC, what we're currently experimenting with internally (this is all still under development) is reducing how much we penalize movement slows. Specifically, in Inferno, slows are reduced by 40% (e.g. a 60% movement slow is reduced to a 36% movement slow). We are experimenting with a 25% reduction instead. So, a 60% movement slow would be reduced to a 45% movement slow.


Great, why don't you just post about how you want to make people play the game you made, your way. I think its funny that with every way that people find a fun way to play the game you people at blizzard find a way to FORCE them into doing something different.

Seriously, this isn't your cash cow World of Warcraft, stop treating it so!
Edited by TehGrimZa#1664 on 9/6/2012 7:43 PM PDT
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09/06/2012 06:57 PMPosted by Lylirra
what happens when the player uses a hard cc? is it reduced?


The following CC types will be affected by diminishing returns (and, in turn, will increase a monster's CC resistance):
  • Blind, Freeze, Stun, Charm, and Fear
  • Environmental CC effects (e.g. falling chandeliers)
  • Item-based CC (e.g. Chance to Blind/Fear/Freeze/Stun on Hit)

This applies for followers, as well.

This is blizzard, where snares are not considered cc in diminishing returns calculations.


Correct. Movement speed slows, knockbacks, snares, chills from Cold damage won't be affected by DR or add to a monster's CC resistance.

Speaking more specifically, movement slows are handled differently than CC (this is because of persistent area effects that slow monsters who walk through them, like Caltrops). While it makes sense to reduce the duration of a stun, for example, it doesn't make sense to reduce the "duration" of the slow from Caltrops because the slow affects you for as long as you're in the area of effect.

So, movement speed slows are instead reduced in effectiveness at higher difficulty levels. Since we're buffing other forms of CC, what we're currently experimenting with internally (this is all still under development) is reducing how much we penalize movement slows. Specifically, in Inferno, slows are reduced by 40% (e.g. a 60% movement slow is reduced to a 36% movement slow). We are experimenting with a 25% reduction instead. So, a 60% movement slow would be reduced to a 45% movement slow.


Good post. Answers questions directly and clearly with hard numbers and specific inclusions and exclusions. This is the kind of post I like.
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09/06/2012 07:56 PMPosted by Wtflag
Good post. Answers questions directly and clearly with hard numbers and specific inclusions and exclusions. This is the kind of post I like.


You like Nerf posts? really?
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They're strengthinging our CC. And they're talking about strengthening our snares.

They're implementing diminishing returns on CC (up to the penalty that is already in place as a flat reduction). And they're discussing reducing the penalty to snares as well so that our snares are more effective than they are now.

This isn't diminishing returns on top of the effect we currently see in Inferno. It's removing the current effect, then implementing diminishing returns which can take us to the shortened duration we currently have in Inferno.

It's one thing to argue that there should be no penalty to our CC at all. That's a valid position. But this is in no way a nerf post.
Edited by Tiakatt#1643 on 9/6/2012 8:12 PM PDT
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Good post. Answers questions directly and clearly with hard numbers and specific inclusions and exclusions. This is the kind of post I like.


You like Nerf posts? really?


That guy loves being told how to play a game he bought, forget playing the way you want anymore, blizzard will just tell you to play these days.
Edited by TehGrimZa#1664 on 9/6/2012 8:11 PM PDT
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What about Elemental Arrow (Frost Arrow rune)?. The duration of the slow on that is 1 second. VS Champions/Elites in Inferno, its non-existant. Will this be changed as well? I think Frost Arrow is pretty interesting but the slow effect is useless for Elites/Champion since it can eat through hatred fast.
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