Diablo® III

Dev Journal: Defensive Bonuses Discussion


It's probably a godo thing, what you're doing... but...

In general, I'm not in favor of changing player skills and changing the rules of the game.
Partly because when I choose a class, I read a lot about skills, etc, and then I choose based on that. Too much changing could ruin the reason why I choose a specific class.

When I read about the skills on the D3 before launch, I thought these skills are so balanced that this game will be really boring. Now it turns out they were not so very balanced. In my opinion, that doesn't have to be bad. I think there's a fun challenge in finding stuff that can be unbalanced. The constant balancing and changing of classes takes away part of the fun, imho.

So if I could buy Diablo 3 off-line version, unsupported without future adding of content and balancing, I'm pretty sure I'd pick that version. Then I would know for sure what I get when I buy the game, my class will not get nerfed or boosted and it would be great fun to play through all classes discoverying the best (or some of the best) builds. Clearly, now Blizz has a goal to make sure that there is NO best build. A noble thought... but, imho, not so fun.

I say: if barbs are OP, let them be OP... There will always be people that find other ways to play barbs and they do that for the sake of an interesting challenge. (I don't play Barb myself.)

Now if someone says Barb was SO TOTALLY OP... then what did the beta testers do all this time? ... if it's really so extremely bad and unbalanced, it's weird it wasn't discovered before...

In the end it's all about game philosophy and what we enjoy. I enjoy that I can rely on the game rules that I read when I start playing the game, and I enjoy to discover "unbalanced" skills myself.

/Craze the Monk
25% nerf. Why even make a 4th difficulty?

This is ridiculous Blizzard. You're convoluting the ENTIRE game.


Level Cap 60

Patch 1.0.4:

Released 100 levels of Paragon.

Why not just have the level cap at 99 like you did in the LAST GAME. Nah, level 60 cap is just too smart of an idea, gotta keep it.

Rolling nerf's in EVERY patch since Release. Just awesome, gotta make it easier for everyone. More people playing = more money.

You greedy, self serving, lazy businessmen need to be fired. Remember when games weren't patched. They just gave you a finished product to buy every time. Instead of testing it out by charging you full price for an unfinished product.

Now I understand that games nowadays are more complicated and can be played over the internet. But I'm just so sick of every game handing everyone victory. What happened to the thrill of EARNING that victory?

I'll say it again.

What ever happened to the thrill of earning that victory? Isn't that of the object of the game? The purpose of playing? Some simple questions that will produce very complicated answers.
Can we all just be OP please? It was way more fun finding ways to counter the "OP" builds, rather then being subjected to rolling nerfs.
I don't even know why they are nerfing inferno. It is so easy. Killing my SnB barb with the impunity nerf. Another bad change. You guys should really address sub 55 gear dropping in Act 3. I think the game is in a good difficulty now as gear is cheap if you don't want all the perfect gear and people can actually farm. Please don't make this like WoW and nerf everything just because people gravitate towards specs that work. How about making other skills more attractive?
Agreed. Inferno Difficulty doesn't need adjustment.

We invest time and gold (others Real Money) to gear ourselves in line with the skills. Only for it to be changed for every patch. 1.0.5 gives you that feeling of why bother gearing up it will be nerfed anyways and all your efforts gone. What is next with 1.06 crit nerf?

1.0.4 is a step forward while 1.05 is 2 steps back. :(
Can we get an answer to Sprint and Run Like the Wind change for 1.05. Or let us know there is an article coming up explaining the change???
09/22/2012 06:52 AMPosted by jjwhitey
Most L60 Barbs have the same skill builds

You must be new to Diablo. Because when i played classic and d2expac there was no other way than a WW barb (excluding PvP, BvB, etc.). This isnt't WoW..

You never killed the Ubers in D2 did you. Frenzy barb was the only way you could do this.
09/14/2012 09:15 AMPosted by Amoeba
We want FUN Blizzard... NOT NERFS! If you WANT to encourage spell diversity, simply strengthen other spells to the point where people are willing to consider them. Nerfing existing spells to FORCE people to move away from them (WW nerf) only encourages frustrations. Also, to make the game better you bring back elements of D2? Why couldn't you have done that to begin with? There is a lot of heavy truth to what Brevik said when he criticized D3. It truly does not do its prequel justice...

Posts: 5
I like the new concept. This is not only going to help make the builds more diverse it also will help to prevent players running up against soft and hard caps in armor as the game moves forward. I personally like the new content and the new ideas. Many of these posters who wish for the good old days of d2 make me laugh. I loved d2 but d3 is its own game. I think it should be vetted on its own merit and not on some roses and sunshine viewpoint based on a nostalgic remembrance of everything that was good about d2. I think many people must forget all of the scammers, gankers, and dupers that flooded battlenet with nothing but an array of spam. Now all the haters will jump on me about DRM and the handful of spammers we get hit with now. Then they will point out the isolated incidents of scamming and theft and say that d3 is the same. I am not going to argue that point. I merely am pointing out that this game is not d2 and it never will be d2. I went to play GW2 for a week or two but me and my gaming buddy ended up comeing back to d3. I really enjoy the changes that have been made and am looking forward to the new ones. Thank you for the massive buffs to Monks during the last patch and kudos on finding a way to place a nerf in game without ruining the associated classes. To all the haters.... the door to other games like tl2 is right there so feel free to head on out that way and share your tears with them.
Edited by Crashin#1795 on 9/24/2012 1:33 PM PDT
My interpretation of the recent and coming changes to the game is Blizzard is moving the game towards a dps contest. I.E. it should be much easier to survive so that people can come up with combinations of skills which stack damage to the point ridiculousness.

Personally I enjoyed the game when it seemed almost impossible to clear inferno on hardcore. The paragon system made the long and grueling grind seem much more fruitful, yet now the grind seems much less necessary. The more the grind moves from "I have to get better gear to survive the next area" to "I want to get better gear because its pretty", it will threaten player longevity. Eventually making pvp the only meaningful portion of the game.

As of 1.0.4 many builds moved much more towards dps stacking with heavy crits. I would project that the coming changes in 1.0.5 will move builds even further towards this end in that survivability can be much more of an afterthought.

Eventually this trend will negate monster differentiation as players will largely be able to one shot most enemies and/or ignore them completely. So the trend of hunting down packs of elites will likely become more dominant, and the base enemies are much more likely to be skipped as though they didn't exist.

I have enjoyed the time I have invested in this game so far. However, the easier the game becomes the easier it becomes to be "done" with the game.
**************Here's the fix to OWE and Seize!**************

The strongest monk defensive skill is One With Everything. We've mentioned it before and it bears repeating - this is something we would like to fix someday, but we're going to take our time. Changes to One With Everything heavily impact existing monk gear. We still plan on addressing this in the future but will do so in a way that does not invalidate the gear monks have invested in.
Resolve: Damage reduction reduced from 25% to 20%.
Seize the Initiative: Changed to grant 50% of your Dexterity as Armor. This will result in anywhere from 750 to 1250 armor for most monks (depending on your Dex) which is comparable to the mitigation lost by other classes. The reduction to Resolve and Seize the Initiative should mean if you want to be a “super-tanky monk” you can still take all three defensive skills, but it should be a lot easier to pick some other passives without feeling like you’re going to blow up at the first Elite pack you encounter."

Make OWE also match your highest resist element with 1 armor per resist. This way you get aprox 500-900 extra armor and no need for Seize anymore.

Now if someone says Barb was SO TOTALLY OP... then what did the beta testers do all this time? ... if it's really so extremely bad and unbalanced, it's weird it wasn't discovered before...

In the end it's all about game philosophy and what we enjoy. I enjoy that I can rely on the game rules that I read when I start playing the game, and I enjoy to discover "unbalanced" skills myself.

/Craze the Monk

I think they admited a few time somewhere that Inferno was not tested properly. Well now we have to pay for it with our builds. Awesome isnt it?

Released 100 levels of Paragon.

Why not just have the level cap at 99 like you did in the LAST GAME. Nah, level 60 cap is just too smart of an idea, gotta keep it.

the difficuilty of Inferno comes from the fact that monsters have a level higher then yours (act 3 for example lvl63) while you always stay lvl 60.

Thats why the paragorn system is a thing for it selt.
im downloading the beta then ima comment i play a dh and a ww barb seems like my classes or taken some pretty giant nerfs but we ga see how it goes just gonna adjust and keep playen all u !@#$%en and winning go play mario brothers or punchout on regular nintendo if u want a easy game i have been loosen the will to play d3 its been so easy this sounds like a upgrade its inferno level u noobs it post to b hard man yall get over it waaa waaa waaa sound like a bunch of lil kids cryen good job blizz make the game hard man thats what i wanted to hear STR8BEAST

[Why doesn't the quote tag properly reference the quoted post half the time? :-/ ]
Jax: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6571517430?page=52#1031

If you are balancing these nerfs with a reduction in inferno, it makes sense. However, please know the following. Monks cannot replace armor like a barbarian can. Armor is Essential. The new players 8 mode will be the gold standard and not the new inferno, in which classes judge themselves by.

If the new players 8 mode is more difficult than the inferno your balancing these skills for, then they are indeed nerfs to the new standard.

Rather than re-balance the current 'players 1' inferno after the fact, why not tone down the planned scaling for 'players 8'. Players will still have to re-gear in order to handle the increased difficulty, but it won't feel like current choices are being penalized.

I hope the devs are paying attention to the excellent discussion on these points in the monk forum.


It seems there is some "concern" that players are choosing passives because they feel "mandatory". This is a false assumption. Yes, choices are sometimes cast in favor of passives that seem to have a better return-on-investment. However, if the passives with better ROI are not game-breaking, a far better strategy for getting players to choose *other* passives is to create alternatives that makes them competitive with the current favorites. This may mean introducing *new* passives.

Give monks viable offensive passives to directly compete with the existing defensive passives.
PLEASE please please don't change the proc rate for the wizards Storm Chaser! I totally got changing wicked winds proc rate, you could freeze and cast twister and you didn't have to be anywhere near harms way. For storm chaser to work, you must be right next to enemies & twisters don't spin in place, they travel so they don't continually proc over the same enemy. I have almost 50% crit chance and I can't keep things perma frozen like pre-1.0.4 and against one or two enemies at a time it doesn't work nearly as well, so battling against elites isn't like it used to be. I only use my CM wiz for group games and I usually die a few times every run for just that reason- elites don't stay perma frozen and I have to be right next to them so I get smacked around quite a bit and some smacks go right through diamond skin. It's not an over powered build by the nature of the design itself: the twisters must travel. Can it please be left alone, please?
What kind of discussion is this? Not a single blue reply in 82 pages.
Ya know, I'm not really one to complain on the forums (if Blizzard even really reads this jank), but having read your latest patch notes, I'm sorry but I couldn't remain silent any longer...so...I gotta say...

You guys are idiots. STOP W. THE FRACKING NERFS ALREADY! Haven't you guys lost enough of your player base already as is? This patch is just going to further alienate the base you have left. It doesn't matter if you're making Inferno "easier," because the majority of remaining players aren't going to see it that way. Most people still playing this game, including myself, are hardcore fans, and if you're introducing a "monster leveling system," that's what we're going to want to play, for both the added challenge and the loot.....Nerfing our ability to survive in that respect is just plain obnoxious and frustrating for the average player.

BTW, I loved your ridiculous example in the article of the wizard (not to mention the barbarian example) w. 6k Armor and 800 Res All. PRE BUFF. LAWL! You know how many wizards actually have those stats (besides your staff)? Maybe the top 5%? 10% at most? And that's a very generous estimate. These are the players who have the godly gear and probably have used the RMAH (as I'm sure you'd love for ALL of us to do), or have actually bought gold. While I'm sure there are some in this category who are legit players, the fact is that most ppl w. those kinds of stats simply are not, and these are the people you are choosing to reward by nerfing defensive skills. THE VAST MAJORITY OF US DO NOT HAVE UBER STATS/GEAR AND ARE VERY MUCH GOING TO FEEL THE IMPACT OF THESE NERFS. Just incentive for us to give you more money, right Blizzard?

I'll admit, I've logged over 600 hrs in this game and in that time MAYBE have found 2 decent drops. Two. In 600 hrs. Now I'm sure many have probably had better luck, but that has been my personal experience. It's a good thing you guys are upping the drop rates, because I'll tell you this right now: You better keep upping them w. consistent nerfs like this EVERY patch, because as far as I'm concerned, you guys got all the money you're going to get from me when I bought this game, and not a penny more. For $60, I'd say 600 hrs of fairly enjoyable play was well worth it. But I simply refuse to pay more for continued enjoyment, which is exactly what I feel you guys are pushing for w. these sort of nerfs, and it truly disgusts me.

What happened to you Blizzard? You used to be an iconic leader in game development w. a fierce and loyal fan base like none other. Now you guys seemingly churn out rushed and crummy expansions to dying franchises because well, I guess you've not only alienated your fan base, but also all the sound minds and real talent you had at your company. So what are you left with? People who make poor development decisions? People who treat a traditionally dark Dungeon Crawler like an MMORPG? People who are more interested in short term profit than long term customer satisfaction? People who try to make a game more like its wildly successful predecessor w. each passing patch because those at the top were stupid enough to fire the original developers and restart from scratch even though the ground work had already been layed out before them? Idiots I suppose...
Edited by Spellbinder#1984 on 9/25/2012 12:44 PM PDT
Rebuild the loot quality, stop making other changes.
I have noticed people mostly stack defense. That's fine if you are soloing but in a group if you aren't bringing the pain then buffs, debuffs, or cc would be much more helpfull than less then 30k dps. It's not rightly grouping. It's more 4 people soling near eachother. Sack up and bring the pain. We didn't get dressed up for nothing.
Looking at some of the interviews you guys have some obvious issues. Why else would you already have to introduce new items when adding overall little content. It was one thing with the uniques, it's an entirely different thing when you start messing with item rolls because we need to do more damage, because your feeding ah or rmah? It's not like rings, offhands and amulets aren't powerful enough.... Lets make them roll even higher. It's annoying enough you guys get the idea that achievements mean anything when it comes to mp lvl... <<<<< Not many people care about this, they want to be able to crush the game at the hardest difficulty not constantly have to regear other FRICKEN PATCH. I and many other would have preferred it if you got the most important patch for all of us, pvp, this would have been much much much more preferrable than any updates that you have in mind.

I forgot to add, 6k armor and 800 resists on a wizard with no buffs hahahahahahhahahahahhahahha. That's so expensive if you want to do damage.
Edited by BlackBog#1277 on 9/26/2012 9:52 AM PDT
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