Diablo® III

How did the Nephalem come to be?

This is a little out there, just a random musing of mine.

I know the Nephalem were made by demons and angels having off spring, but how did this come about? I mean based off the game lore, angels are created from the crystal spire right? the demons are made in the wake of the prime evils foot steps or whatever and the prime evils are remnants of Thathemet or whatever. What I'm getting at is that the angels and demons have no need to procreate as all the key members are essentially eternal with all their respective methods of genereating new hordes for the ranks of the eternal conflict.

So... why do they have genitalia to being with lol!? What do spirit based beings need with em? I know it's a nice plot twist or whatever, but I just keep thinking, why do any of the angels or demons even have the ability to procreate. At least Diablo inhabited the body of a man when he and Adria created Leah so that makes sense in a way. But what are beings with no need to procreate doing with the gear and the will to create something like the Nephalem to being with? :)

Sorry to expose everyone to my twisted mind, but these are things I think about as I hear the story over, and over, and over as I play different classes and different difficulties etc.
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ok heres whats going to happen.

some blizz fanboy will come in here and tell you that theres nothing wrong with this and its totally natural to think that two groups of beings who are complete opposites of each other and are supposedly slaves to their nature w/o freedom of choice could go,

"lets just get together and have kids!"

yet that is what they do aparently. Were supposed to swallow that......you can see why Diablo 3 ruined it for me.
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ok heres whats going to happen. some blizz fanboy will come in here and tell you that theres nothing wrong with this and its totally natural to think that two groups of beings who are complete opposites of each other and are supposedly slaves to their nature w/o freedom of choice could go
I guess I'll be said "fanboy."

So, your question is how could two completely separate beings whose reproductive system does not have anything to do with sex create new beings. The details have not been explained, but let me take a whack at it anyway.

So we have angels. Pretty simple here. They spawn from the Crystal Arch and do not have any reproductive organs, less any organs.

Then we have demons. They spawn from the Black Abyss but are of flesh and blood. They can mate with each other, as referenced in a few pieces of lore, not to mention the fact that there is a Maiden of Lust implying that demonic sex does happen.

However, even considering that, it still wouldn't make sense if the two could intermingle. And even if they could, it shouldn't work like angel + demon = nephalem any more than dog + fish = seal.

Again, it has not been officially explained, but it is pretty obvious that it doesn't work the same way as having offspring does with mortals. My interpretation is that with the powers of the Worldstone, angels and demons that were in love created their vision of a perfect being. This being would be of both angelic and demonic influence, and would call their creators "parents."

Based on what I understand the lifecycle of the first generation nephalem to be, I also assume that they do not start as children and grow into adults. They probably just are as they are. Similarly, while they certainly do have the ability to learn, they probably are created with a significant of innate knowledge.

This could be wrong.
Edited by Chris#1235 on 9/16/2012 10:30 PM PDT
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Haha,

Actually not a bad stab it Chris! I could see that being more plausible than the "birds and the bees" method ;)

The only thing with your scenario that I could see being a little problematic is that doesn't the lore in the game say that when Inarius and Lilith saw what they had created they were horrified or something like that? And that they started fighting because once they saw what they had created they had very different ideas about what should be done about their offspring. That would imply, at least I think, that they weren't aware of what the outcome of their union would be prior to the Nephalem being "born". Or am I remembering something wrong? You would think after hearing the story several times I would NOT blank out on it but what can I say?!

I doubt this is something they would ever bother to explain anywhere but still your idea is an interesting one.
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I guess I'll be said "fanboy."

So, your question is how could two completely separate beings whose reproductive system does not have anything to do with sex create new beings. The details have not been explained, but let me take a whack at it anyway.

So we have angels. Pretty simple here. They spawn from the Crystal Arch and do not have any reproductive organs, less any organs.


I appreciate your effort in trying to explain it. Allow my to bring up an often overlooked point: Angels obviously do have reproductive organs. There are male and female angels, and the female angels have breasts. Female angels probably have breasts because most of the people who play this game are men, but if we are to use an in-universe explanation then it's probably because newborn baby angels drink milk (same reason human females have breasts). It's not unreasonable to assume that both genders of angels are fully equipped.

Of course, then there's the problem that if angels could reproduce, then why have them respawn at the crystal arch when they die? They would then have two methods of maintaining their population, which would result in eternal population growth, and the whole universe would be infested with angels. Personally, I don't have so much of a problem with angel/demon interbreeding, as much as I have a problem with the idea that angels and demons just respawn if they die.
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They reproduced magically, or by some means that we're not aware of. Interestingly enough, since angels don't have any physical form, does that mean that the human body is based on succubi anatomy (minus the wings)? Don't forget that Lilith was a succubus.
Edited by Starblazer#1223 on 9/17/2012 1:06 AM PDT
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I'm gonna take a page from the Star Trek rulebook here, and suggest that Angels and Demons might reproduce in the same manner as the Q. If you are unfamiliar with the Q, I'll explain them a bit before I go on.

The Q are a "species" of omnipotent beings with the power to affect time, space, and the laws of physics as they see fit. They claim to have always been in existence, and, naturally, they live forever, or until killed by another Q. In this respect, the Q are similar to Angels, in that both Angels and the Q see themselves as higher beings, almost like gods, and they can only be killed by other higher beings, I.E. Demons.

Now, back to the issue of Angelic and Demonic procreation. I suggested earlier that Angels and Demons might procreate in the same manner as the Q. Now, I'm not sure at all how Q procreation works, but in ST: VOY Season 3 Episode 11 "The Q and the Grey", a male and female Q are shown to procreate by touching the tips of their index fingers together and employing their Q powers in some way. How exactly their reproductive system works is never explained, nor does the female Q ever appear pregnant. However, later in the same episode, their child does appear on screen.

That's my guess as to how Angels and Demons might bear children together. Feel free to add anything I might have overlooked. Thanks for reading.

*EDIT* I deleted and reposted because, as I was hitting the SUBMIT button the first time, I glanced up and noticed literally the only spelling mistake in the entire post, and my OCD demanded that I fix it. That is all.
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I think chris explained it perfectly.
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10/06/2012 04:14 PMPosted by WitchDoctor
I think chris explained it perfectly.


I hadn't seen this thread in weeks....

How drunk was I when I wrote my response to him? lol Though I will point out that nobody has yet adequately addressed my point about why angels have two genders, and why the female angels have breasts.

And to compare Diablo to an awful episode of Star Trek Voyager, is to underscore my objection to the sloppy writing.
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Angels have two genders because some are of masculine essence, and some are of female essence. Who's to say that they can't fall in love with each other and have angel babies? The first angels came from the Crystal Spire, but that doesn't mean that every angel since then did.
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I appreciate your effort in trying to explain it. Allow my to bring up an often overlooked point: Angels obviously do have reproductive organs. There are male and female angels, and the female angels have breasts.


In the book of cain angel's are described more like beings of light and sound, and their armor is decoration to distinguish them from eachother (although he also says it might serve as protection, it seems to imply pretty heavily that angels do not have physical bodies). So I don't think they have reproductive organs. I'd rather buy into starblazer's theory of them just having a more masculine or feminine nature.
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10/18/2012 10:36 AMPosted by Oldmanriver
In the book of cain angel's are described more like beings of light and sound, and their armor is decoration to distinguish them from eachother (although he also says it might serve as protection, it seems to imply pretty heavily that angels do not have physical bodies). So I don't think they have reproductive organs. I'd rather buy into starblazer's theory of them just having a more masculine or feminine nature.


If they have bodies (of any sort) that need protection, then the masculine armor would be more practical than the feminine armor, because the feminine armor has basically two large gripping points that can be used as leverage against them in hand-to-hand combat.

But, of course, the angels probably don't see much combat (judging from Tyreal's rather flaccid sword arm, and the fact that Heaven is stocked with weapon racks full of inferior weaponry) so this might be a moot point.
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