Diablo® III

1.0.5 is a HUGE buff... Not a nerf...

09/16/2012 07:46 AMPosted by Balkoth
You didn't get what i was typing there. They throw my ratio off with the nerfs to warcry. It doesn't matter if they nerf monster damage, they simply nerf my gear. Thats what i am angry about.


The stats on your gear is going to remain exactly the same. It's not anyone else's fault you geared around ONE skill knowing full well they make changes to this game constantly. Boo freakin hoo, you might have to get more all res. Boy life is tough.
For instance, the new reflect damage would now be 18.75%

If you reduce the percentage that is REFLECTED then it will MATCH the nerf to monster damage.

Yes. It's just that they haven't said anything about that; changes to monster damage do not imply changes to player damage. Reflected player damage is player damage. So I wonder. As you pointed out, it would make sense to nerf the reflected percentage. At the same time, as another player pointed out, I am not sure I trust Blizzard to do what makes sense regarding this affix. Its inclusion in the first place as as a ubiquitous, non-curse mechanic seems to me a design flaw.

But anyway: can you speculate upon the interaction of reflect damage with the new /players command?

Let's say, just for the sake of argument, that /players 4 or /players 8 or whatever it is that they're adding restores mob difficulty to 1.03 levels. All classes would feel slightly weaker than they did in 1.03 vs mob power at those settings, and they would do so at a normalized rate. So far so good. But because reflect damage scales with player dps rather than simply with mob power, the threshold for critical output (the point at which reflected player dps overwhelms player defense) is also decreased because player dps will be as high or higher than it has ever been while player defense will be lower than it has ever been. That sounds like a buff to the affix. So it seems like nerfs to this affix will need to exceed the proportion of nerfs to mob damage. And, again, they haven't said anything about that.
There will not be reduced monster damage in the new monster power modes that they are releasing. There is only reduced damage in the old inferno modes no one will play after 1.05 is released.

What are you talking about?

The Monster Power mode is basically just giving the monsters the health that they would have in a coop game.

If there's a 25% nerf across the board in damage, then there's a 25% nerf across the board in damage.

Monsters won't deal more damage, they'll just have more health.
________________________________________________
@Drothvader | US Diablo III MVP
MVP's are not employees of Blizzard Entertainment. We are players just like you.
Motto: "I aint 'fraid of no post"


You should be trying to say that you can't be nerfed in soemthign taht does not exist.

They will tune the difficulty to be whatever the current game is set up like.

If X is the difficulty they are aiming for they will make the difficulty X even if you have 1.04 game rules or 1.05 game rules.
Edited by Glassfist#1820 on 9/16/2012 8:20 AM PDT
Why bother changing anything the game is DEAD ! it's not like the millions of people that bought this game will come back. This game has been a disapointment from day one. Sadly i waited a very long time for D3 and SWTOR to come out only to be extremely unsatisfied with both. Both games are irreparable and haven't delivered one tenth of what was promised.
There will not be reduced monster damage in the new monster power modes that they are releasing. There is only reduced damage in the old inferno modes no one will play after 1.05 is released.

What are you talking about?

The Monster Power mode is basically just giving the monsters the health that they would have in a coop game.

If there's a 25% nerf across the board in damage, then there's a 25% nerf across the board in damage.

Monsters won't deal more damage, they'll just have more health.
________________________________________________
@Drothvader | US Diablo III MVP
MVP's are not employees of Blizzard Entertainment. We are players just like you.
Motto: "I aint 'fraid of no post"


1st off I like your motto.

Now on to my point.

If the only thing this new Players X does is increase mob Hp then I'll be extremely disappointed in Blizz.

How boring that would be, to only have an Hp increase.

Prove me wrong Blizz!!! Do something Exciting!!!
Edited by ShadowStarr5#1189 on 9/16/2012 8:38 AM PDT
09/16/2012 08:17 AMPosted by k0re
Reflected player damage is player damage.


Reflected player damage is monster damage that takes into account player damage.
So I read through this developer journal sticky discussion... and I see a lot of people complaining and crying that these nerfs are going to make it harder for them to play...

Actually, it's quite the opposite.

First let's take a look at the formulas so you can follow along.

- Armor Formula -

Armor DR = Armor / [ Armor + ( 50 * Monster Level ) ]

- Resistance Formula -

Resistance DR = Resistance / [ Resistance + ( 5 * Monster Level ) ]

- Total Mitigation -

Mitigation = 1 - [ ( 1 - Armor DR ) * ( 1 - Resistance DR) ]

Now that we've got all the formulas out of the way and people actually know how mitigation is calculated, let's take a look at the data for 1.0.5. Keep in mind that Monster Damage is reduced by 25% now.

For this specific example, I'm going to use War Cry and Energy Armor.

- Old War Cry -
Armor - 20%
Resistance - 50%

- New War Cry -
Armor - 20%
Resistance - 20%

- Old Energy Armor -
Armor - 65%
Resistance - 40%

- New Energy Armor -
Armor - 35%
Resistance - 25%

Now at first, these look like daunting nerfs. However, given that monsters now hit 25% less, we will actually be taking LESS damage than before, and we will have LESS emphasis on REQUIRING these skills.

http://i.imgur.com/PmpFr.png
Now there's the cold hard numbers.

If a monster dealt 70,000 damage in 1.0.4, it now deals 52,500 damage in 1.0.5

If you refer to the chart and look at the survivability column, you will notice a trend.

That's right, your survivability is going to INCREASE with the LESS armor and resistance that you CURRENTLY have.

A Barbarian at 1000 Armor and 100 Resistance is going to see a 19.83% increased survivability rate come 1.0.5.

The more and more armor you have, the less survivability you'll notice, but this means you can safely drop your defensive skills quicker than you would normally.

This is what we all wanted, we wanted more choices.

Well, now you can finally play more offensively.

As to those of us complaining that Inferno is already too easy (Yes, I am included in that as well) we can see an increase in difficulty thanks to the new Monster Power system.

If you want a challenge, you'll still get a challenge.

TL:DR
This patch is a buff, please stop complaining about it.
________________________________________________
@Drothvader | US Diablo III MVP
MVP's are not employees of Blizzard Entertainment. We are players just like you.
Motto: "I aint 'fraid of no post"
]

No. Survivability increases greatly in INFERNO. However, what if monsters hit harder in the Players 8 mode or the new Infernal Machine? Then it becomes a huge survivability nerf. Sure, Inferno becomes easier, but that isn't the standard anymore. Inferno is now going to become obsolete and players will flock to the new Infernal Machine and Players 8 modes. If the monsters in these areas don't hit harder then I guess we're fine. But if they hit lets says 10% harder per player on the Players 8 settings, then we're in some deep trouble.


Refer to my above post.


Refer to my second sentence.


You're being really optimistic if you think they'll buff our offensive passives like that, but yes, if they do, fair enough. It wasn't a nerf. Then again however, it goes against there philosophy of not having "mandatory skills" and with a passive having such an offensive and defensive benefits it would practically mandatory. Which is why I don't see it happening.
I don't see sentries being a valid playstyle unless they become moveable w/o costing more discipline.

If I could get a response to this it'd be great: Does your gloom chart take into account the extra 2 seconds. It will be going from 3 to 5 seconds at 35% DR instead of 65% so as it stands by the numbers it's a loss which is pretty gheeeey but if it lasts for 2 seconds longer it might not be that much of a loss??
Player 8 will increase the difficulty and thus probably incoming damage. Your argument is invalid.
I concur. Message is authentic. As a matter of fact I am among the few really looking forward to this patch, especially Infernal Machine. Hope its worth the hype.

At the same time, I do feel sorry for you Drothvader. All that sitting on the fence and occasional leaning to and fro must leave you with some monumental pain in your rear. Might I suggest some yoga? Side effects of an MVP's prerogative I suppose. Sucks to be you though.
09/16/2012 08:21 AMPosted by Bluebomber
Player 8 will increase the difficulty and thus probably incoming damage. Your argument is invalid.


You can't be nerfed in something taht does not exist.

If they are aiming for a difficulty level of X, it does not matter if they use 1.04 game rules or 1.05 game rules. They will make the appropriate adjustments to make the difficult be X.
You're being really optimistic if you think they'll buff our offensive passives like that, but yes, if they do, fair enough. It wasn't a nerf. Then again however, it goes against there philosophy of not having "mandatory skills" and with a passive having such an offensive and defensive benefits it would practically mandatory. Which is why I don't see it happening.


I know what you mean but just the wording they used..

"We are adjusting some runes and passives to provide ways to increase survivability that scales with your Life, Armor, and resistances."

Just makes it seems like they are adjusting existing runes/passives to do more on top of what they do now.
So droth, when are you going to convince me that having to sacrifice DPS in order to survive at the same level as 1.0.4 (get more LOH, get more Life regen, stop attacking RD mobs so quickly, get more defensive passives [which don't exist yet]) isn't a nerf?

I'm waiting...
Does your gloom chart take into account the extra 2 seconds. It will be going from 3 to 5 seconds at 35% DR instead of 65% so as it stands by the numbers it's a loss which is pretty gheeeey but if it lasts for 2 seconds longer it might not be that much of a loss??


The extra 2 seconds is totally irrelevant, since DH tanks died in 1.0.4., and you'll probably die if you just stand there and take damage constantly.

"We are adjusting some runes and passives to provide ways to increase survivability that scales with your Life, Armor, and resistances."

Again, until I hear otherwise, I have every faith entangling shot will soon be giving extra armor bonus and grenades will give life on hit.
Edited by silvermirage#1775 on 9/16/2012 8:27 AM PDT
Also don't get me wrong, they could screw it up and nerf DHs into the ground, But it just seems like they're aware of their situation and I pray they're smart enough to make them come out better in 1.05
09/16/2012 08:23 AMPosted by Glassfist
Player 8 will increase the difficulty and thus probably incoming damage. Your argument is invalid.


You can't be nerfed in something taht does not exist.

If they are aiming for a difficulty level of X, it does not matter if they use 1.04 game rules or 1.05 game rules. They will make the appropriate adjustments to make the difficult be X.


Then why are they not leaving Defensive skills alone and nerfing incoming Damage in order to get people to switch?

The reason is they know what the new Monster power modes will be and are reducing the value of defensive stats so that it is much harder to mitigate the damage than it would have been with the old defensive skills.

Maybe to push people to use their RMAH? Maybe to force people to farm longer for upgrades?

Only Blizzard really knows and they will not tell us the real reason.
Right when people see, Energy Shield and Warcry are going to have less effectiveness as far as the raw numbers go, anything else they read flies out their brain and they stop reading the rest of it to come complain here.
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