Diablo® III

[Mechanics] Monk Spirit Generators

I use Crippling Wave / Mangle, and have been since day 1 (well, day 2, didn't level to it day 1 ;-) ). I use it with a 2h'der with lifesteal. As many have said, glad to see other monk's having productive conversation (much better than general "discussion")...

I would love to see crippling wave generate more spirit; the 7 it does now is alright, but I spend a LOT of time holding my left click and generating (fun, but not super fun). My fix: make it do 5 spirit generation base, then +1 spirit per enemy hit, capping at 10). Crippling Wave should be the be-all end-all of AoE, so people who want to build around it (aka. me) should be rewarded for being able to hold tank while surrounded.
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I use Crippling Wave / Mangle, and have been since day 1 (well, day 2, didn't level to it day 1 ;-) ). I use it with a 2h'der with lifesteal. As many have said, glad to see other monk's having productive conversation (much better than general "discussion")...

I would love to see crippling wave generate more spirit; the 7 it does now is alright, but I spend a LOT of time holding my left click and generating (fun, but not super fun). My fix: make it do 5 spirit generation base, then +1 spirit per enemy hit, capping at 10). Crippling Wave should be the be-all end-all of AoE, so people who want to build around it (aka. me) should be rewarded for being able to hold tank while surrounded.


I totally hear ya!

I actually LOVE CW:Rising Tide. My dream is to someday do enough damage to switch to a Cyclone Strike / Rising tide build without losing effective farming speed.

I tried really hard to keep in mind the "CW should be for AOE" mindset when I proposed my changes. I like the idea of being rewarded for using CW as AoE, however, I don't know if Blizz would be okay with even that level of complexity on a base spirit gen (non-rune).

I could possibly change CW:Rising Tide to:
3c. Rising Tide
  • Effect: Critial Hits Generate 5 spirit.
  • Explanation: Yellow numbers give 5 spirit each.
  • Proposed Change: Change damage type to holy. Keep spirit per crit at 5. Gain 1 spirit for each enemy hit with every attack (up to 10).
    This change would highly reward players who use CW:Rising Tide to generate spirit in AoE situations. The max spirit generated by a single attack would be 8 (base) + 5 x n (number of crits) + 10.
    This might be too much and might not ... it would definitely produce terrible spirit when used on few targets.
  • .

    Actually now that I think about it. I like your idea more than the crit-based idea ... I would like to see:
    3c. Rising Tide
  • Effect: Critial Hits Generate 5 spirit.
  • Explanation: Yellow numbers give 5 spirit each.
  • Proposed Change: Change damage type to holy. Gain 2 spirit for each enemy hit with every attack (up to 20).
    The "rising" part is the increasing effect as more monsters surround you.
    This change would take this spirit generator and make it more about consistent AoE spirit generation and less about "stacking crit to win" as many monk skills currently are.
  • .
    Edited by Druin#1518 on 9/24/2012 9:50 AM PDT
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    Posts: 111
    Druin, I've written a little simulation program to get some hard data on the effectiveness of FoT and WotHF in terms of their effectiveness in single-target damage. I'll be honest -- I'm still a bit skeptical of the status quo mindset, given all the testing I've done on these spirit generators. So I want some real numbers to make help prove or disprove my theory.

    Okay, so its pretty obvious that no spirit generator except for WotHF can even hope to compete with FoT/TC in terms of single-target damage. So I'm using my simulator to test out these 3 runes, using FoT/TC as the baseline.

    - Hands of Lightning
    - Blazing Fists
    - Fists of Fury

    Note that I am not testing Spirited Salvo because it should be clear that this rune is not designed for dealing raw damage. I am also not testing Windforce Flurry because the projectile doesn't hit the primary target and deals inferior damage compared to the above three mentioned runes.

    The test assumes these things:
    - Only the damage to your primary target is considered, all other things are irrelevant
    - Your Monk is constantly in a state of attacking your primary target
    - Your Monk's weapon damage, attack speed, critical hit chance, and critical hit damage remain constant for the entire attack duration
    - Any effects that cause your target to take additional damage remain constant for the entire attack duration

    These are the test parameters that I will be adjusting:
    - Length of battle
    - Weapon speed
    - Attack speed bonuses
    - Critical hit chance bonuses
    - Critical hit damage bonuses

    Some of the preliminary results:
    - In most scenarios, FoT/TC does, in fact, deal the most single-target damage. I will concede this point.
    - Monks with high critical damage bonuses in short battles (less than 3 seconds) have the potential to deal much higher damage using WotHF than FoT/TC due to damage deviations being wider for WotHF.
    - WotHF/HoL scales well with weapon speed, attack speed bonuses, critical hit chance, and critical hit damage.
    - WotHF/BF scales well with weapon speed, but scales poorly with attack speed bonuses.
    - WotHF/FoF scales poorly with weapon speed, critical hit chance, and critical hit damage.
    - Overall, WotHF/HoL deals the most single-target damage out of any WotHF rune (this surprised me the most -- but I've tested this in-game and can confirm that this is true)

    I'll post some real data later, but again, I will now concede the point that FoT/TC deals the most single-target damage (still not yet convinced that it's the best spirit generator for ALL scenarios). I'm finding this study very interesting.

    But I have to address this one issue right now. Fists of Fury consistently has the lowest damage output in all scenarios due to its poor scaling. The damage over time mechanic really hurts the rune. After seeing some of the data, I would go so far as to suggest removing the DoT aspect, and simply make the rune deal more weapon damage. Fists of Fury currently deals 80% of Thunderclap's damage to a single target, and I feel that this is too low to be competitive. Of course, it shouldn't deal as much single-target damage since Fists of Fury has a larger AOE than Thunderclap. I believe that 90% of Thunderclap's single-target damage is fair now that we're removing the procs from the DoT. This translates into making Fists of Fury deal 175% weapon damage (25% weapon damage on the second strike).

    This is what I'd like to see with Fists of Fury:
    - Reduce the animation time on the dash.
    - Increase damage from 140% weapon damage to 175% weapon damage.

    "Increase damage to 175% weapon damage. Also adds a short dash to the first strike."

    Oh yeah, and then there's this:
    09/23/2012 11:33 AMPosted by Druin
    Then, when it comes to spirit generation, it is not THE BEST. That would probably go to Quickening. However, using a purely spirit gen rune is 100%, flat out, sub-optimal at this time. If you can show me a spec that can compete in clear speed with the cookie-cutter build using a spirit gen rune instead of TC, I will reconsider.


    Try this build with dual-wield. It competes with cookie-cutter very well in terms of offense, but has much improved mobilty:
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#adgXek!XVU!Ybabba
    Edited by strikerdude#1306 on 10/5/2012 2:29 PM PDT
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    @striker
    The build you posted would be subpar offensively compared to the current cookie cutter due to
    1. ToC:TC is basically equally efficient at mobility as DS
    2. ToC:TC > Quickening for single target/aoe, which you've made up for by using WoL, but WoL is subpar in a dw build as its mainly used in 2h builds with high weapon damage
    3. NOTHING competes with a BF:FitL SW for consistant aoe damage, spamming WoL will only get you so far based on spirit constraints and its buggy targeting...
    4. How do you spam the 48% overawe when all your spirit is being pissed on WoL... hit Overawe hit WoLx2 and thats one pack, or hit BF + SW + overawe and just spam overawe on each concurrent pack.
    The only realistic way that that build would compete offensively is if you had a massive amount of spirit regen, but at that point you may as well just drop BF/BoH and go with TR:TW and have even higher mobility...

    @druin
    I made that comment just because your proposed changes to spirit gens was very well thought out and written. You'd be the guy to go to for a write up on how we should be getting spirit on dodge baseline or as a passive (preferably added to ES). Think how much fun it would be if we could all just stack dex to 3k and use cyclone strike + backlash to clear EVERYTHING!!!!! I can dream
    Edited by Memlol#1255 on 9/24/2012 6:41 PM PDT
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    Nice
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    Very nice. I think it would even better with some number crunching to dial in the percentages. My own experience with these skills in Inferno? I started with Thunderclap for the teleport and the AoE, but it was getting e killed against Molten, Plagued, and Fire Chains. I moved to FoF for a while, and I loved the interrupt, but it was too slow for me. So I switched to Blazing Fists, and I really like it. I run with 18% movement bonus and use the Tempest Rush rune with the 25% movement speed bonus, and I FLY around the battle field. If it weren't for the damn rubber banding, it would be perfect for me.

    Anyway, I'm obviously not a monk who kills elites in three seconds, but that's my take. Carry on, and keep up the good work.
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    Nice post.

    I really hope they change WotHF. Really, I would just be happy in the 2nd strike proc coefficient was changed to .1 x7 hits. I mean WTF Jay Wilson, stop playing your barb for a @#$! second and consider some monk changes... that don't violate us in the behind, he has no problem in 1.0.5 saying WW barbs, the proc rate is going down, but don't worry it'll cost less fury...

    "Monks, why haven't you reroll barb?" - Jay Wilson
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    Posts: 111
    @Memlol
    I know that it's really difficult to accept that any build can compete with cookie-cutter, but give me some credit. I don't go onto the Monk Skill Calculator page, randomly pick out some skills that I think might work out together, then post on the forums, "YEAH! I just beat cookie-cutter! Yay for me!"

    As a matter of fact, I test these new builds over the course of many hours (sometimes several days) trying to perfect them. It's best to keep an open mind before you make claims that this build is weak, because it isn't. Try using the build first instead of blatantly theorycrafting about it.

    1. DS is simply better than FoT/TC for mobility. DS dashes longer, you have more mobility options and you have much more precise control. Efficiency is irrelevant when comboed with Quickening due to the low spirit cost of DS / Quicksilver and the fast spirit regen of Quickening.

    2. Again, you're thinking too much about spirit/damage efficiency. It's irrelevant. Also, the choice of dual wield + Quickening + WoL is by design. Quickening allows you to generate spirit so fast that you can constantly use WoL. Dual wield is necessary for this build because the WoL animation scales with attack speed, and Quickening benefits from the increased attack speed as well. This combo lets you drop bells really fast, allowing you to switch between bell drops and Quickening attacks at will.

    3. You don't understand what "consistent aoe damage" means. You are still thinking of spirit/damage efficiency, but it's completely irrelevant. What you are seeing is SW's one time activation cost for an aura DoT effect as consistent AOE damage, but there are other methods for achieving this. Yes, BF/FitL + SW deals consistent AOE damage by virtue of being a DoT effect. However, DoT effects are inherently slow. WoL is a burst damage attack which is fast. This build combines DS for the proper positioning, Quickening for the spirit regen, Empowered Wave for the lower spirit cost, and dual wield for the fast attack speed. This combination allows WoL to be used at will on targeted mob packs for maximum damage. So this build also has very consistent AOE damage output, but it comes out much faster.

    4. This isn't the same play style as the cookie-cutter build, so don't think of it as such. WoL spam deals much more damage than Overawe spam + some other attack because WoL is a very high burst damage attack unto itself. I can guarantee you that WoL spam will beat BF + SW + Overawe every single time. Why wait for SW's DoT to take effect when I can simply kill the mobs instantly with a burst damage bell?
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    YAY, people are talking about stuff!

    To reward you for your talking, I will acquiesce to Vrkhyz's request for math.

    I have some work to do at the office today so I will try and fit it in but if not today, you will see some additional math notes by tomorrow.

    @Strikerdude
    First off, THANK YOU. I absolutely love it when people run tests for things like that.
    I also feel like your results fit, VERY WELL, my anecdotal results from similar testing.

    I generally felt that WotHF:Blazing Fists was pretty close in overall dps to FoT:TC because the AoE felt stronger and the single target felt a bit weaker.
    WotHF:FoF felt like garbage and now, that appears to be because it is in fact garbage dps.
    Sad day for FoF fans.

    The info about WotHF:HoL is 100% new to me though. I never would have thought to compare this skill to Blazing Fists or FoF when looking at "things that do dps."
    Awesome find!

    Any thoughts on my proposed change to FoF? I felt like having two skills that have identical uses (WotHF:FoF and FoT:TC) makes no sense so I just changed the whole mechanic of FoF.

    Furthermore, after seeing your tests, I feel even better about my suggested changes for WotHF to bring them up to par with FoT:TC.
    I think that if Bazing Fists had slightly better dps, correctly procced on the second hit and the "dash" that is attached to FoF only right now, it would be a competitive skill with FoT:TC.

    -Druin, the happy monk
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    Posts: 111
    Updated October 14, 2012 to include an even better suggestion for Fists of Fury! Instead of dealing 175% flat weapon damage, it would deal 217%/154%/154% weapon damage per strike to improve the synergy with the teleport and to make the rune feel faster and more aggressive, but without actually increasing the overall damage against tough single targets.

    This is what I would like to see happen to Way of the Hundred Fists:

    First, I think the base skill is fine. It deals higher damage than all the other base spirit generators for its AOE area, and is only second to Fists of Thunder in single-target damage. The knockback effect on the third strike is also a plus for improving defense. What I would rather see is changes to the runes to separate their powers more from each other, allowing players to make more conscious choices on which rune to pick.

    So again, we have three main purposes for a spirit generator, so I will be writing in context of these three:
    1. Direct Attack Damage
    2. Spirit Generation
    3. Effect

    4a. HANDS OF LIGHTNING (DAMAGE)
    Hands of Lightning deals the highest direct attack damage compared to the other runes. And when compared to the other runes, it also scales the best with weapon speed, attack speed bonuses, critical hit chance, and critical hit damage. In terms of single-target damage, it deals 82% of the damage of FoT/TC.

    I believe that the overall ability is fine, but the damage should be slightly increased to be more competitive. An easy way to buff this is to increase the number of hits in the second strike to 11, which effectively makes Hands of Lightning deal 86% of the damage FoT/TC. Also, since Fists of Fury should be the big damage rune, Hands of Lightning should deal less damage than Fists of Fury. To compensate, we should increase the proc rate of each hit. This falls in line with the OP's suggestion.

    To note, these changes would change the role of Hands of Lightning from "Damage" to "Damage + Effect". This would give Hands of Lightning an edge in versatility over the other runes.

    Proposed Changes - Hands of Lightning:
    - Increase the number of hits in the second strike from 7 to 11.
    - Increase proc rate to 90%/120%/65% for each strike, respectively.

    "Increases the number of hits in the second strike from 7 to 11."


    4b. BLAZING FISTS (EFFECT)
    Blazing Fists is used for its attack speed and movement speed buff. This combos well with skills with animations that scale with attack speed, and is also very powerful with FoT/TC + SW/Cyclone. The extra attack and movement speed also provide some extra mobility.

    When Blazing Fists is used as its own attack, it deals 82% of the single-target damage of FoT/TC. However, it scales poorly with attack speed bonuses due the diminishing returns of increasing attack speed, so it actually deals less damage than Hands of Lightning when used in practice.

    To be more competitive, the effect needs to be stronger so it can have better synergy with the other Monk skills. Also, Way of the Hundred Fists has the slowest attack speed of any spirit generator, so this rune's effect should be an option to compensate for that fact. Therefore, I suggest increasing the effect bonus to 9% for 7 seconds. The extra duration allows Monks to better take advantage of the movement speed buff. We need keep the number of stacks to 3 because increasing it anymore makes for slower gameplay and hurts Monks with low critical hit chance.

    But there's one more thing. At three stacks, you would get a 27% attack speed bonus. This is a MAJOR buff! Because of this powerful effect, we should actually reduce the damage to 126% weapon damage (the second strike deals 18% weapon damage per hit) so that the damage doesn't get completely out of control. This change in combination with the increased attack speed makes Blazing Fists deal 81% of the single-target damage of FoT/TC, which is a very reasonable tradeoff. I feel this is justified because the mindset in choosing this rune should be, "I am choosing this rune for its effects, not for its raw damage." If players want raw damage, they can choose the Fists of Fury rune instead.

    Proposed Changes - Blazing Fists:
    - Increase the attack speed and movement speed bonuses from 5% to 9%
    - Reduce damage to 126% weapon damage (the second strike deals 18% weapon damage per hit)
    - Increase duration from 5 seconds to 7 seconds

    "Reduces damage to 126% weapon damage. Critical Hits increase your attack speed and movement speed by 9% for 7 seconds. This effect can stack up to 3 times."


    4c. FISTS OF FURY (DAMAGE)
    Fists of Fury is supposed to be the big damage rune. It works best with slow and high damage 2-hand weapons where you can hit multiple enemies with its damage over time effect to whittle down their HP with high weapon damage. Dashing Strike is very useful here for hitting as many different enemies as possible. Fists of Fury's short dash is also useful for engaging enemies and works much like FoT/TC's teleport.

    Unfortunately, the very dependence on the damage over time effect that makes this rune deal the LEAST damage when compared to the other runes (except for Spirited Salvo). The 20% weapon damage DoT effect is insignificant in short battles (less than 3 seconds), and scales poorly in long battles (more than 10 seconds). In fact, Fists of Fury scales poorly with weapon speed, attack speed bonuses, critical hit chance, and critical hit damage because the DoT effect does not take advantage of any of these properties.

    In short, Fists of Fury has a few problems associated with it that makes it fail at what its supposed to do: Be the big damage rune that allows for aggressive gameplay.

    Here are the problems with Fists of Fury:
    - Fists of Fury is supposed to be the big damage rune, but the actual damage is low.
    - Fists of Fury is supposed to be an aggressive rune. Applying damage over time effects is a tactical move, not an aggressive move.
    - The dash is supposed to improve aggression. The dash's long animation time makes it feel less aggressive.


    To make Fists of Fury a more viable choice, these three problems need to be addressed. First, the dash animation is too slow. It should be faster to keep the gameplay more fluid. This change is a no-brainer.

    But most of the problems lie with the DoT effect. It needs to be removed. However, removing the DoT effect will cut the proc rate in half, but that's okay! Hands of Lightning will already take care of our proc needs, and if Fists of Fury does enough damage to make up for the loss of proc rate, players will have a choice to make whether to go proc or go raw damage. Right now, Fists of Fury deals 80% of the single-target damage of FoT/TC, which is too low to be competitive. I feel that 90% is fair, given the fact that Way of the Hundred Fists has a larger AOE than FoT/TC, but also has a lower proc rate. This translates into boosting Fists of Fury's weapon damage to 175%. In addition, making this change allows Fists of Fury to scale well with weapon speed, attack speed bonuses, critical hit chance, and critical hit damage, so Fists of Fury would be able to keep up with, and eventually surpass, Hands of Lightning as gear improves over time.

    One of Fists of Fury's main effects is the teleport. Since it only teleports on the first attack, a good synergy would be if the first attack dealt the highest amount of damage. So instead of simply giving Fists of Fury a flat 175% weapon damage attack, the damage distribution should be 217%/154%/154% weapon damage for each strike. This would greatly improve the synergy with the teleport without actually increasing the overall damage against tough single targets. However, dealing a killing blow against weak monsters on the first strike would greatly improve the speed of the rune. This would improve Fists of Fury's "strike hard and fast" feel.

    To sum up, Fists of Fury should not be some weak FoT/TC clone. If you want raw damage output, go Fists of Fury. If you want high proc rates and single-target damage, go FoT/TC.

    Proposed Changes - Fists of Fury:
    - Remove the damage over time effect.
    - Reduce the animation time on the dash.
    - Increase damage from 140%/140%/140% weapon damage for each strike to 217%/154%/154% weapon damage for each strike (the second strike deals 22% weapon damage per hit)

    "Increases damage to 217% weapon damage on the first strike, and 154% weapon damage on the second and third strikes. Also adds a short dash to the first strike."


    4d. SPIRITED SALVO (GENERATOR)
    Spirited Salvo is a unique spirit generator rune in that it has no requirements for its use. Sadly, this is its only plus. On average, Spirited Salvo will only generate an additional 2.25 Spirit per attack. The other spirit generator runes (Quickening, Strike from Beyond, Rising Tide) can all generate Spirit per target hit, so the amount of Spirit gained per attack has the potential to be much higher. Monks with high critical hit chance can generate large amounts of Spirit with any of these three runes.

    This makes Spirited Salvo the weakest spirit generator rune by far. This becomes even worse since Way of the Hundred Fists has a slow attack speed, further limiting the amount of Spirit generated. And while Way of the Hundred Fists may be a decent base skill for attacking, Spirited Salvo is the sole rune that does not reinforce the base skill like the other runes do.

    But Spirited Salvo does pave the way for a hybrid kind of play style where a Monk can potentially use more Spirit spender skills while maintaining decent direct attack damage. However, I believe that Spirited Salvo's ability to generate Spirit is too weak to make such a play style viable. Therefore, it should be changed to simply increase the amount of Spirit generated per attack to 15 Spirit. It shouldn't use a "chance to gain Spirit" mechanic because this only reduces the consistency of generating Spirit with an already slow attack. This change would better allow hybrid direct attack/Spirit spender gameplay and give Monks with low critical hit chance a viable choice for generating Spirit. Also, 2-hand weapon styles would greatly benefit from the consistent Spirit generation and the better synergy with The Guardian's Path passive.

    Proposed Changes - Spirited Salvo:
    - Remove the chance to gain Spirit.
    - Increase the amount of Spirit generated per attack from 8 to 15.

    "Increases the amount of Spirit generated to 15 Spirit per attack."


    4e. WINDFORCE FLURRY (DAMAGE)
    Windforce Flurry is unique in that it is the only ranged spirit generator attack the Monk has outside of using Deadly Reach. The projectile is very strong, and Monks with a lot of attack speed can deal a lot of damage with this. This rune is especially powerful in close-quarters combat, like the Act 3 Keep Depths, where you can kite the mobs into a doorway (or other narrow choke) and deal massive amounts of damage to them.

    I actually like the concept. However, I would prefer that this rune be changed to improve its consistency, allowing for a viable damage dealing ranged attack. I would suggest changing the rune so that every strike generates a shockwave (the second strike generates 7 smaller shockwaves). Each wave would deal damage in a straight line as normal. This attack wouldn't interfere with Deadly Reach / Piercing Trident since that is a front cone AOE, nor would it interfere with Crippling Wave since that is a surround AOE. This change would give Monk players another choice in their AOE attack style.

    Proposed Changes - Windforce Flurry:
    - Each strike now generates a shockwave that deals 70% weapon damage as Physical (the second strike generates 7 smaller shockwaves that deal 10% weapon damage as Physical).
    - The shockwaves now move faster.
    - The shockwaves now originate from the Monk rather than slightly in front of the Monk.

    "Every strike generates a wave of wind that deals 70% weapon damage as Physical to enemies directly ahead of you."
    Edited by strikerdude#1306 on 10/14/2012 2:50 PM PDT
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    I think strikerdude summed it up best with this chestnut:

    Fists of Fury should not be some weak FoT/TC clone.

    That applies to all these skills, really. Each should offer something that sets it apart from the rest. Any skill that duplicates another exactly is superfluous, and any that duplicates another poorly is useless.

    Keep churning the idea mill.
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    Still working on stuff :D
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    ive played monk since release and have about 700 hours logged.

    i started playing FoT (lightning flash) as a sword + Board and finished the game that way a few weeks after release. i had 12k dps when i beat the game.

    after 1.03, i went dual wield and got my dps to about 30k and used FoT, lightning flash

    after 1.04, i got my dps up to about 110k now and run with a skorn and switched to crippling wave, which i think is the best spirit gen to use as a 2h because of the nice weapon damage.

    me personally, i never really understood why people loved using TC but it is the most used spirit gen and do agree with your post that the skills overall need to be overhauled to balance the field.

    nice write up btw
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    ive played monk since release and have about 700 hours logged.

    i started playing FoT (lightning flash) as a sword + Board and finished the game that way a few weeks after release. i had 12k dps when i beat the game.

    after 1.03, i went dual wield and got my dps to about 30k and used FoT, lightning flash

    after 1.04, i got my dps up to about 110k now and run with a skorn and switched to crippling wave, which i think is the best spirit gen to use as a 2h because of the nice weapon damage.

    me personally, i never really understood why people loved using TC but it is the most used spirit gen and do agree with your post that the skills overall need to be overhauled to balance the field.

    nice write up btw


    Glad to hear you have had some success with other spirit gens!

    I am not trying to say that FoT:TC is the ONLY spirit gen that can be used. I have just found that using any others is sub-optimal and so, in a game where most people are striving for the most loot or xp per hour, the other spirit gens just aren't worth it.

    CW happens to be my favorite spirit gen and, if it was changed to be a bit better, I would happily join you in using it!
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    Great thread, Druin. Tons of awesome ideas here, many that I hope the devs pick up on. I'm linking this in General so we can hopefully have a more productive discussion!
    Edited by Demonyc#1804 on 9/28/2012 11:02 AM PDT
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    2d. Strike from Beyond

    Effect: Critial Hits generate an additional 10 Spirit.
    Explanation: Yellow numbers generate 10 spirit each.


    This is my favorite generator right now. Btw when you crit it grants 10 spirit for every enemy hit right now... pretty freaking amazing when on averge Im hitting 3 enemies with it. I'm never low on spirit anymore!

    Also since I use SW:Cyclone on any of my strikes if I hit 4 guys and 3 of them crit. Boom 3 tornadoes =)

    So honestly I don't feel a need to change that rune at all. If you up the damage only on it only... I wouldn't complain of course =)
    Edited by Neon#1837 on 9/28/2012 11:28 AM PDT
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    2d. Strike from Beyond

    Effect: Critial Hits generate an additional 10 Spirit.
    Explanation: Yellow numbers generate 10 spirit each.


    This is my favorite generator right now. Btw when you crit it grants 10 spirit for every enemy hit right now... pretty freaking amazing when on averge Im hitting 3 enemies with it. I'm never low on spirit anymore!

    Also since I use SW:Cyclone on any of my strikes if I hit 4 guys and 3 of them crit. Boom 3 tornadoes =)

    So honestly I don't feel a need to change that rune at all. If you up the damage only on it only... I wouldn't complain of course =)


    I will do some math on this when I get home. I actually really like DR:SfB as a spirit generating tool, however, I believe it still doesn't compete with FoT:TC when it comes to build-efficiency.

    I am pretty confident that my proposed changes wouldn't negatively effect your game play. You would only see an improvement in performance!

    09/28/2012 11:01 AMPosted by Demonyc
    Great thread, Druin. Tons of awesome ideas here, many that I hope the devs pick up on. I'm linking this in General so we can hopefully have a more productive discussion!


    Thanks!!
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