Diablo® III

Torchlight 2 is good.

09/24/2012 03:49 PMPosted by Honor
On combat it most certainly can. In fact, TL2 can't hold a candle to D3 in that regard.


In TL2's current state (though mods will change this in the future), D3's physics engine is superb hands down. The combat that D3 offers in realism is the best I've seen.

Blizzard did an excellent job with combat realism. I gotta give the a 10/10 on that one.
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In TL2's current state (though mods will change this in the future), D3's physics engine is superb hands down. The combat that D3 offers in realism is the best I've seen.

Blizzard did an excellent job with combat realism. I gotta give the a 10/10 on that one.

yeah, d3s engine IS more polished, they just made worse decisions in a bunch of important areas
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TL2 is fun. Play D3 if you want to make money or spend money but play TL if you want to have fun. The pace is alot faster and the loot/skills are quite refreshing. I missed the RPG elements that Diablo 3 lacked.
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First off, I am a huge fan of the diablo series. Diablo 2 stole most of my teen years so I don't want people to assume im a basher of Diablo 3.

Anyways to be honest i was super skeptic about playing torchlight 2. Diablo 3 for me was the most hyped up I've ever been for a game. My first play threw on my Witchdoctor I had a lot of fun, but now looking back, I think I just had so much fun because I was happy the wait was FINALLY over.

On Torchlight 2 the graphics aren't very good, and to be honest I didn't play the beta so I was going in the dark, I saw some videos on youtube, but that doesnt' really mean much. After about 15 hours on playing Torchlight 2 I realised that I am actually having real fun. The zones are massive, the loot is outstandingly done IE: I am almost always getting an upgrade, the music feels very diablo 2ish (which I love) it has talent trees, attribute points enchanting, gambling, gemstones and probably more than I have unlocked in the campaign yet.

I honestly think that Torchlight 2 as it is now, is better than Diablo 3, but on the other hand, every patch that Diablo 3 has put out is upping the quality of Diablo 3. So I think after a year or so Diablo 3 will be up to snuff with the ARPG's.

All in all, they are 2 similiar games but as it stands you'd be a fool to not spend 20 bucks on this game. I'll go back to Diablo 3 once i get bored or if there is nothing else to do in Torchlight 2...which at that point Diablo 3 would hopefully be smoothed out.
So what do you guys think? TL2 > D3?
I think that it is very subjective, i don't like Torchlight 2 because i don't like giant maps(i prefer small maps and more contents) and there's no 2h weapons such as 2h mace or 2h axes(last time i've heard)
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You echo my thoughts exactly. Gameplay > graphics.

The funny thing is Diablo III was criticized as looking outdated and too cartoony when it was first revealed (see D3 art controversy; the rainbow level was added to poke fun at it).

The whole gameplay > graphics argument came here too for D3.

that was when everyone was assuming d3 was going to have amazing gameplay (i.e before anyone could actually play it)
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I reserve my judgement until I finish the story and start the proper grind, if there is any.

I don't think that TL2 during the leveling phase is better than D3. It's different, because the pacing isn't the same, the maps/graphics are different, and we have the return of the skill trees and stat points.

Things I like: early game sets. They don't do much but are cool to have. Items that level. Also good stuff. Faster initial movement speed. Ability to play offline.

Things that I don't like: skills and stat points seem dated after D3. Yes, a lot of people wanted them, but I don't see why do I need to manually assign those. I never know where best to put them, and it's going once again end up with someone coming up with perfect distribution on the Internet.

Same with skill trees. They bring 0 innovation. Allocating 2% more damage to a skill is uncool, and Embermage trees in particular seem uninspired (Ice, Fire, Electricity? Really?)

Combat is clunky. Monsters are hard to see, hard to click on, I miss half the time and the whole thing is a mess. It's not bad now, but the overall design and especially UI don't stand up to D3 even close. And the combat in D3 is so much better.

For 20$ it's a good bargain, but better than D3? What TL2 does is to clone D2 with minor innovations. There's just not much new to it. Is it a good clone of D2? Yes.

NB. I will personally try to play both.
Edited by Ursus#1442 on 9/24/2012 4:18 PM PDT
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As someone who is considering TL2, there are 2 huge major flaws I see.

1)The game's loot is on your computer so there's no competition for gear or anything, people can freely hack their gear.
2)It seems like people are just spamming 1 skill which seems to get old in 10 seconds.

1: you get a cheater tag

2: 13 skills on ur bar compared to 6, so, no
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This will probably be my last post about TL2, because after getting past Act 2, I really couldnt play the game anymore. It doesnt speak out at all to me for any type of revolutionary gameplay. I guess with all the hype people brought, I expected it to be revolutionary and a lot different from D2, I expected it to build on the game and learn from the bad (AND good) from Diablo 3. However, these are my gripes, which make this game unplayable for me.

No full respec ability was universally deemed terrible in D2. Locking your character into one set of skills was never considered a good thing. GO bac through the posts to the D3 beta, nobody wanted such a feature, it was a dated concept that literally forced re-rolls. In D3, when I want to switch specs, I switch my skills, in TL2 id have to spend 8-10 hours levelling a brand new character to do the same thing.

TL2 skills are boring. I dont have options to augment the skills the same way the rune system works. In almost every way, I can say Diablo 3s ksill and rune system is far superior then TL2s. TL2 suffers from point stacking, a rather dull and unintuitive form of character building, defining my character by how many points I put in a skill is absolutely useless and redundant.

TL2 should have built off some type of unique system, because its current system is a twelve year old, dated concept that sucks.

Itemization is something Diablo 3 could learn from Torchlight. Torchlight items give you a sense of flavour, allowing you to have a snse of worthwhile gear. Its not magic after rare item of upgrading, you have a good chance of getting full sets and there are sets provided for low level characters, giving you some sense of power. HOWEVER, I also believe Torchlight items need to be more randomized. You can tell from a playthrough that a lot of drops are geared toward the class you chose. Thanks fine and dandy if you are playing your class within its roll. As a Fire Hammer melee Embermage, its not so fun whenyou cant get the items necessary to tank, despite having a melee skill. My EMbermage is awesome in damage, but can barely take 2-3 hits. Most of my deaths are due to them getting too many hits before I get my Hammer and Spell off. If I could get Vanquisher items and be able to take hits, it would improve.

Music. The themes in TL2 are great and pieces of the melodies are practically carbon copies from D2. During Act 2 I swear I could hear a song that was almost note for note, the song from Diablo 2 Act 1. Not complaining, D2 music is great.

However, the actual combat is rather dull and boring. The first creative boss I came accross was the Djinn from Act 2. A three phase fight that tacked on new skills between each phase. Unfortunately the end Act boss followed the same formula as all the other bosses. "I will spam mobs as a mechanic, we know this is bad boss mechanics, but we cant think of good ones". Excellent, more potion chugging mechanics.

STats, I get to spread my own stats. I dont mind either way, spreading 300 points in D3 is redundant when it makes up 1/6ths of the stat.

Unfortunately, combat and skills are why I would play the game, and these are the two very flawed factors that are fundamental. Sure, TL2 may have a few more builds then D3, but when the skills are boring, id rather cookie cutter. Especially since there are a lot more builds in D3 then people give merit for, the problem is there hasnt been much theorycrafting because evryones worrying about efficient farming over viable. Seen the ranged barb build on Youtube? Probably more OP then WW, in that build, the mobs dont get within 10 feet of him. With skills and the combat in TL2 being really dull, theres no reason to play, its boring.

D3, I still play casually even if its a devoted hour on an Act 3 farm, ive enver felt like putting down a game like TL2 so fast since Universal Combat, hell I beat TL1 twice before I got bored. The game aint this great pile of rainbow dust people are saying it is. The problem is that D3 did just enough wrong to piss off people, theyd rather justify playing a dull, uninteresting and rather boring game that didnt even try to apply some ARPG creativity over a game that tried, failed, but tried.

Seriously, D2 has 16k players left last time I checked. If you are playing TL2 yuou might as well go back and start pl;aying D2. Atleast in Diablo 2 the combat is much more interesting and intuitive.

And for those people saying it costs only 20 bucks. That doesnt give them a free pass to simply make a carbon copy of D2 in a different setting. Call of Duty does that through Activision all the time and outside the COD fanbase, who really accepts that as good practices?

Im going to bite my lip on the rest of this, I started a thread about TL2 being all hype and you critics of the TL2 haters can go to work on this one, but I am done debating the game, just as you wish me to haeve fun at my AH simulator,

Have fun with your Diablo 2 remake!
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Torchlight 1 was kind of boring to me. That being said, I felt little incentive to continue Diablo 3 after winning the game and quite honestly finishing it felt like a chore. Farming afterwards felt even more like a chore.

I picked up Torchlight 2 because the demo was just plain fun. Leveling up and crafting my character is an event in and of itself in this game. The loot is varied and interesting. The boss fights and areas are top-notch. Furthermore, I don't feel like I'm being force-fed a story every time I want to run through stuff.

Simply put, I am absolutely having the greatest experience that I've ever had with an ARPG game. Ever.

Just to be clear, I was on here every day around launch - bashing the "trolls" who I figured were talking bad about Diablo 3. Well, I have to say, if Diablo 2 was anything as fun as what I'm having with Torchlight 2, they were right. Damn it. The naysayers were right.

im in the same boat. found tl1 boring, love tl2, was on the forums every day pre launch, regret defending the game so much

overall i still am hoping for d3 to shine, its just... not at all right now

i really jsut hope the d3 dev team learns from tl2 awesomeness, but until then, ill be playing TL2, and who knows, i might even stick with it over d3 even when it gets good. but that depends on a cpl things. will the 30 friends i used to always see online the first 2 weeks be back? (that i now see none of ever... well thats wrong, i sometimes see one person online) and how amazing will the mods be for tl2?
Edited by Honor#1370 on 9/24/2012 4:41 PM PDT
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As someone who is considering TL2, there are 2 huge major flaws I see.

2)It seems like people are just spamming 1 skill which seems to get old in 10 seconds.

2: 13 skills on ur bar compared to 6, so, no

The point is, you have 13 SLOTS you can put your skills in. There is no way you are actively using 13 skills though. I've got a lvl68 mage, I'm face rolling act2+ on veteran and I basically use 3 skills. The rest of my bar is mostly potions and fish.
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Damn, 10 pages of trolls just right out in the open, thanks for updating my block list guys.
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It's not really fair to compare the loot and itemization in T2 to D3 after 15 hours when, looking at your profile, you've got a ton more hours in D3. Of course you're not getting upgrades on those level 60s as often as you do on your level 30 in T2. ;) That said here are a couple initial observations:

- pets > followers
- phase wolf > treasure goblin

Because of that Blizzard will probably bring back the calderun of Jordan / nephelem cube

oh you mean those things that were in the game right up untill release? I bet they come up with some other super insightfull ideas, perhaps more tabs on the shared stash... wait a minut. but, but, if they do that, what will they do for the expansion? Last thing we need is more of this dev team trying to put their own stamp on diablo.
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Window Media Player under Enhancements Quite Mode, you'll notice there's 2 button via 'Difference between loud & soft sounds' 1.Medium Difference/ 2. Little Difference:

The strength and survivability needs better tweaking mechanism.
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I wish that D3 has the skill point system. This alone would help the lack of interesting loot. In D2, there was little better than finding a piece of gear that had "+ x" to all skills on it. Seriously, if d3 could implement that, this game would be golden.

I KNOW THEY CAN DO THIS!!! If they were able to take skill points completely out of WoW, then they should be able to add skill points in D3
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i feel like... d3s main problem, is the devs are so sick of balancing from wow that they try their best in d3 to keep balacing in the game as simple as possible. which means throwing out a bunch of awesome things like, being able to dodge melee hits, having fun interesting and game changing stuff on gear, like REAL skill changing effects, (i.e. having a chance to basically roll anything in green on the skills toolbar instead of 5% dmg or 2 less mana as an affix on gear), and instead have each piece, no, each character have something around 7 stats to get, and it doesnt matter what skills or passives you have, that doesnt change, because thats easy to balance...

message to the devs: this isnt wow, this game is static but 2 expansions (after ur done with beta). the content and characters dont technologically advance but the 2 expansions. a game is MUCH easier to balance with things being static. you dont hafta get rid of more difficult things to balance that are fun in the name of "perfection"
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2: 13 skills on ur bar compared to 6, so, no

The point is, you have 13 SLOTS you can put your skills in. There is no way you are actively using 13 skills though. I've got a lvl68 mage, I'm face rolling act2+ on veteran and I basically use 3 skills. The rest of my bar is mostly potions and fish.

well thats you, i use every one of mine
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I'm severely dissapointed with how bad Diablo3 is so i bought a Torchlight II 4-pack from steam so I can give the game as gift to 3 friends.

Anyone have any idea how i give away the 3 other copies?
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