Diablo® III

Energy Twister Explanation Request

I think we aren't asking for it not to be nerfed at all.

What most of us think is that the nerf was bigger than necessary. Unlike the barb nerf, which allowed them to continue using their build (because of the reduced mana cost of WW etc.), our build will simply be extinct.
Reply Quote
I disagree with your procrates lolpop
With average 40% cc 1.6 aps gear, a 0.125 procrate results in a 5% chance to proc CM every third of a second per twister. With 20 APoC thats not even enough to make up for a single one, let alone fuel other spells.

First of all, thats a huge gearcheck right there. You will have to buy items specifically catering to increase APoC, APS and cc while neglecting other stats, resulting in way lower paper dps than you would have gotten with that money otherwise just to get out of the red zone in apoc for twisters cast.

Second, Energy Twister is terrible. This spell does totally laughable damage on its own. I think with 6 twisters you get something like 100% weapon damage per second. So why do people use it? Procs. They use it to proc stuff, and because it scales with attack speed. Its the cooldown and AP motor of specs that use it. The ONLY way to make it do damage was storm armor and with the new procrate you totally mauled not only twister but that armor rune as well.

I IMPLORE you, reconsider the harshness of this nerf. Or make twister a spell that is actually worth using on its own. Or add lifesteal to our sources. ALL of our spells but magic missile have around 0.33 procrates at the very most. If not for permafreeze or other cheese tactics you'd need OBSCENE ammounts of LOH to make builds work.
Reply Quote
I'm not sure if anything can be done at this point, but the Storm Chaser (SC) nerf to 0.125 will kill the melee wizard. When 1.05 hits, there will be a mass testing of the different skills and what we will get is something that would discourage a lot of wizards to keep going. Even if Blizzard raised every energy twister to 0.5, it cannot in no way shape or form compete against the other classes and builds. How do I know? Because we have 0.5 now and CM wizards don't even show up as a blip on the screen of the best players in the game. Look at paragon, look at your stats. No one that I know has abused the proc coefficient of legendaries with this build at 0.5 (2x what WW was originally).

Consider this: Moldran (barb) and two of his other friends (barb, barb again) just found the keys and beat Azmo + another boss at monster level 10 in PTR. When they had to get their 5 stacks, they were continuously in WW mode, just bypassing every CC (arcane, frozen, etc) and literally just sprinting across a hallway and the monsters/elites would die in their wake. That's after their nerf. That's beyond ridiculous. A CM wizard isn't immune to CC and would take much longer to kill those targets because they would have to actually fight them. Please reconsider this change.
Reply Quote
I have tested both builds as well with great detail as well.

To be honest, archon build is alot cheaper and easier to build as it does not require/or requires very little of a very expensive affix. (arcane power on crit) With that affix it also means using CM/ET build, my dps is further reduced simply because they are only key dps items such as weapons, off-hands and helms. I have to use Chantodo's will instead of echoing fury and stormcrow instead of andriels visage.


Yes. This is the exact same point I have been trying to make in my thread http://us.battle.net:80/d3/en/forum/topic/6678688372?page=1#20

Archon is vastly cheaper in gear cost and skill slot cost for the same DPS to a CM Wizard.

The key attractiveness of the CM build is its massive damage multiplier, after 5-6 seconds of ramping up, makes elites and boss killing very fast. But it is actually very ineffective in whites farming due to it's ramp up time.

Then at some DPS point (100K), the Archon which had some issues with elites is now able to destroy elites in 5 seconds. And the price point to achieve 100K DPS is moving lower and lower as better and cheaper gear flood the AH. Meanwhile APOC items are still fairly rare and their prices have not reduced much.

Take my wand which I bought for 30m for example. A similar weapon with same DPS, CD and socket is going to cost the same or lower. I had to pay a premium because I'm limited to wands with APOC because WW does not work with less than 30 APOC and tons of CC and attack speed. The socket weapon will have 100% critical damage which is a massive 30% to 40% DPS upgrade.
Reply Quote
If they are going to nerf ET, they should just remove it because, it has no use, HIGH AP LOW DAMAGE RANDOM MOVEMENT,
Reply Quote
09/24/2012 07:12 PMPosted by chrisloup
(yet people say with higher attack speed mistral breeze is viable?


'viable' doesn't mean it's good. Mistral is very mediocre, tested at 2.6 APS. 48% CC to ET
Reply Quote
I understand that Storm Chaser's 0.5 proc coefficient was a mistake, but do you (Diablo 3 developers) honestly believe that 0.125 proc coefficient is acceptable for Energy Twister (of any rune)?

I'd like to reiterate that Wyatt claimed that the reason for the 1.0.4 Energy Twister nerf was because a proc coefficient of 0.25 would be too powerful with new legendary procs. Do you still honestly believe this? With how powerful the "bugged" Storm Chaser was, wouldn't this problem have kicked into overdrive? Yet we've seen nothing of the sort. Do you know something we don't know? If not, then why is the proc coefficient remaining at the horribly low 0.125?

At the very least, the wizards deserve an HONEST explanation for Energy Twister's current (PTR 1.0.5) state.

PLEASE look into creating a viable Energy Twister for 1.0.5 official release.
Edited by TCSyd#1232 on 9/24/2012 8:10 PM PDT
Reply Quote
"this change literally kills off my charactor.... I have no viable alternative with 1.05. its hydra or archon..... and thats it."

y,thats all
Reply Quote
As for why we changed Energy Twister's proc coefficient at all, Wyatt summed that up nicely in his original class preview blog for 1.0.4: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/6939564/


Lylirra, with all due respect, this response is absolutely worthless. In that post, Wyatt explained that the proc rate had to be nerfed in order to prevent legendary procs from becoming overpowered, however when the proc rate for SC was doubled instead, Wyatt's prediction did not come true. We have been playing with SC at a proc rate of 0.5 for a month now, and legendary procs are not even valuable (let alone overpowered).

The point of this thread is that the original reasoning we received for the necessity of the ET nerf has been proven in a trial by fire to be false. Please, explain to us this discrepancy, rather than redirecting us to the explanation that we already know is wrong
Edited by jbro#1247 on 9/24/2012 8:17 PM PDT
Reply Quote
As for why we changed Energy Twister's proc coefficient at all, Wyatt summed that up nicely in his original class preview blog for 1.0.4: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/6939564/

Lylirra, with all due respect, this response is absolutely worthless. In that post, Wyatt explained that the proc rate had to be nerfed in order to prevent legendary procs from becoming overpowered, however when the proc rate for SC was doubled instead, Wyatt's prediction did not come true. We have been playing with SC at a proc rate of 0.5 for a month now, and legendary procs are not even valuable (let alone overpowered).

The point of this thread is that the original reasoning we received for the necessity of the ET nerf has been proven in a trial by fire to be false. Please, explain to us this discrepancy, rather than redirecting us to the explanation that we already know is wrong
Reply Quote
In 1.0.4, we reduced Energy Twister's proc coefficients from 0.25 to 0.125, and applied that change to four of the five runes. Problem is, we intended that change to apply to all five runes including Storm Chaser, so we're correcting that mistake in 1.0.5 (it's going from 0.5 to 0.125 to match the others). It could probably be considered a bug fix at this point, but for the sake of clarity we're listing it as a normal change in the PTR patch notes. We might change that plan for the live notes, but it really depends on your feedback. :)
f


what i dont get is why no one seems to care that most of the barbs are useing the samef WW build and outpaceing the rest of us buy double but if wiz finds a great killing combo we get oooo "we cannot alow that to continue" ? call it a bug fix now all u like but it was working as intended before 104 and should have stayed that way.
Reply Quote
edit:wrong thread
Edited by Backwoods#1437 on 9/24/2012 8:28 PM PDT
Reply Quote
In 1.0.4, we reduced Energy Twister's proc coefficients from 0.25 to 0.125, and applied that change to four of the five runes. Problem is, we intended that change to apply to all five runes including Storm Chaser, so we're correcting that mistake in 1.0.5 (it's going from 0.5 to 0.125 to match the others). It could probably be considered a bug fix at this point, but for the sake of clarity we're listing it as a normal change in the PTR patch notes. We might change that plan for the live notes, but it really depends on your feedback. :)

As for why we changed Energy Twister's proc coefficient at all, Wyatt summed that up nicely in his original class preview blog for 1.0.4


Your assumption that the Energy Twister + Critical Mass build would "remain fairly strong" with the 0.125 proc coefficient is wrong. 0.125 is way too low, even with very good gear. Please do more testing, especially against mixed melee/ranged groups of mobs (e.g. Fields of Slaughter) and ranged elite packs (e.g. Tower of the Cursed 1 and 2). You will see that 0.125 makes the build completely unsustainable.

Also, the time that passed since 1.0.4 showed that the reason that was named as #1 for the nerf (legendary procs) failed to materialize. None of the new legendaries are abusable that way, and none were abused even with Storm Chaser at 0.5 proc rate.

So, not only you over-nerfed Energy Twister, but you also did it for a wrong reason. Please un-nerf it. And consider different coefficients for different runes too, to reflect their different behaviors.
Reply Quote
PSA hellfire rings are OP.
Edited by Goku#1522 on 9/27/2012 10:57 PM PDT
Reply Quote
A very simple reason is what ever they discover 90% of player is using for sure they will nerf it to the ground.With this nerf coming in 105 might as well removing Energy Twister because no body is going to use it because of the low proc rate,low damage and high resources....Yes the only reason Wizzy use ET.In 104 they buff other skill like hydra etc as they want us to have more build diversity but in 105 they(Blizzard) forget about it totally and come back with nerf here and there.
Reply Quote
With 48%cc and 2.6 aps you are better off just using meteor with mid to top end gear wicked wind is dead. Over nerfed only usable rune is wicked wind and still is not as good as star pact over nerfed. Both wicked wind and meteor proc nearly identically if not meteor procs more and meteor outputs more damage, going to say ET is dead.
Edited by SWAV#1980 on 9/24/2012 9:00 PM PDT
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]