Diablo® III

Warning: 15 reasons NOT to play a monk.

Posts: 10,324
EDIT2: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6759326392#1 Is the new thread. This one is now capped.

EDIT: Thanks for the support, just spent some time cleaning up the OP and adding an extra section at the end. Please keep it up.

Made this thread on the PTR forums but it's definately relevant here. Hopefully people can read it before it is exiled to the Monk forums where it can safely rot away without being read by anyone.

Basically, there are lots of players returning in 1.0.5 and probably a few newbies. Many will be making new toons due to the MP system.

Before they do, I'd like to offer them some advice.

DON'T roll a monk. Yes, they look interesting and the sound of playing a Jackie Chan style demon butt-kicker sounds awesome. However your actual experience will be more along the lines of playing a paladin punching bag.

In more detail:

1) We feel like gimp barbs. Seriously. Just go and compare passives. Then compare skills. Heck, you may also want to compare builders and spenders. We have some okay toys (OWE) but otherwise tons of our stuff feels useless and the stuff that isn't is just way worse. Just compare Battlecry (30% damage and 3% crit, free) to Conviction aura (massive resource cost, 24% damage).

Someone in the PTR actually charted out comparisons of what we have compared to barbs showing just how inferior we are.

2) Our good toys are steadily being taken away with zero compensation. Procs on sweeping wind? Nerfed to zero. Not down to a reasonable percentage like most classes - totally taken away. STL = 50% nerf. Resolve = nerfed. OWE = getting nerfed soon. And before you say we'll be compensated in other ways, just look how that worked out for Demon Hunters.

Every time I read the patch notes it feels like Blizzard promote build diversity by buffing other classes bad skills and nerfing our good ones.

Here's a hint: We aren't using 1-2 builds only because they are OP. We use them because A) we need 2 mandatory defensive passives and at least 2 defensive actives to even survive. And that's before MP and B) because everything else is just awful.

3) Our resource system sucks. We don't regen it and are dependant on it for everything. Even our oh crap buttons have spirit costs. Rather than giving us some spirit, all our buff cooldowns COST spirit, and usually a lot of it. And it builds really slowly. No other class makes me feel resource starved like my monk does, half the time I feel like I don't even have the juice to keep my buffs up.

4) Dodge sucks. Other posters have gone into this, but we are a melee class that relies on a very RNG stat to survive. But more than that, all the other defensive stats scale linearly, while dodge suffers enormous diminshing returns. Even our defensive skills that give dodge don't give a flat rate; they also DR.

Dodge is a really silly stat since it scales so well at low ratings and so terribly at high ratings. If anything, it's more useful for classes that don't use it as a main defensive stat than those that do, which is bass ackward.

The elephant in the room though is that unlike all other defensive stats, dodge is totally ineffective against a lot of attacks. If I'm not mistaken, they don't work at all against ground hazards, which are a big threat to melee players.

5) Procs suck. These are becoming a bigger and bigger part of D3 and since tons of our skills don't have any sort of proc coefficient at all, we are left out in the cold. Also - we are a class that relies heavily on Life on Hit to survive, and tons of our stuff doesn't even proc it.Sure, with great gear we can do well - but so can other classes. Before we have that 50k+ base dps needed to blow everything up, we suffer. And this is going to be even worse in high MP.

6) Passives suck. We actually have less passives than other classes, and probably the highest number of useless ones. Also, while other classes seem to have buffs poured onto them in each patch, for the most part we barely get damp.

Here's a hint. A 10-20% buff to a passive that is already useless probably won't make it useful.

7) Our gear sucks. Not just for the obvious "we need to stack an extra stat compared to other classes" argument, but also - just take a look at our sets. I mean, compare them to the Barb, WD or DH set in terms of awesome stuff.

Why do we have a 0.33 increase to spirit regen while other classes get 2-10x more than us, and us being probably the most resource starved class of them all (since the WD buff)?

Yes, Wizard sets suck too, but they are the second most common class for a reason.Actually most monks I've seen wear the DH set instead. Which is really really lame.

8) Crazily expensive gear. Because we have such specific stat requirements and share gear with another very gear dependant class (DHs) our stuff costs a fortune on the AH.

9) So many bad skills. Really. Again, just compare our skills to those of the barb. At times it feels like there were two different developers with very different ideas of how good a class should be working on each.

10) No hope in sight. Almost every other class has seen some love to bad skills, some commentary on where they stand and some dialogue on where they suck and what's being fixed. What do we get? "Yeah, we want to make you guys use more builds...so we are going to nerf your main defensive passive and plan to gut your other core mechanic sometime soon".

11) Unlike all the other classes, we are balanced around playing in coop. Our only real damage passive requires us to be in a game with other players. Most of our gimpiest buffs and skills are gimped because 'you are supposed to use them on other people'.

So "Just play coop" you say? Well, you can't use MP in public games.

12) Dodge no longer affects damage reflect. This means that we are now even weaker against this, forcing us to stack LOH (and rely on our wonderful non-proccing skills).

13) We are almost guarenteed to be nerfed even more when PvP arrives simply because no one likes having their big spells dodged. There will be QQ and either dodge won't affect most player skills (making us useless in PvP) or we will be nerfed further (making us useless in Pve and PvP). It's a lose lose.

14) Forget about Uberbosses. To have a realistic chance of seeing keys, you need to be in MP5 or above. Without obscene amounts of gear a monk either won't have the dps to kill things or the defenses to survive anything (the dodge not working on stuff is huge here) at this level. Meanwhile budget barbs and WDs can farm it without many worries.

15) Our class doesn't feel 'monky'. We should be an agility hero, unloading tons of blows, dodging attacks and leaping around the battlefield like...well, a barb does.

Instead we rotate defensive cooldowns and try to kill stuff while they are up - and then run around like a headless chicken while they recharge.

> I'm not saying monks can't do MP0. All classes can. But if you want a fun class that is realistic to gear up on an average player's schedule and will be able to do Uberbosses and high MP farming, you should definately go elsewhere.

The saddest part of all is how easy it would be to fix us, at least temporarily for 1.0.5 - or just put us close to even footing with Barbs.

- 7 easy ways to fix us -

> Dodge has less diminishing returns on classes that use it as a main stat. Currently, while other classes' main defensive stats scale linearly, ours caps out at around 50%.

> Dodge now works on plagued, Molten and other stuff it doesn't. Just testing MP3, I can't outheal a single plague pool with 1k LOH, 1200ish resistances and 4k armor.

> Give Sweeping Wind a small proc coefficient.

> Increase the '0.33' on our sets to '3' to be at least close to other classes' sets.

> Don't nerf STI or OWE. Neither of these are OP, and we have no real OP builds. The reason we use these isn't because of how good they are, but because of how dismal everything else is.

> All monk spenders have a 20% reduced spirit cost. All monk buffs/cooldowns have a 40% spirit cost.

> Allow guiding light to work when healing self in solo games.


There are plenty of other good fixes suggested by other posters, but this would be a good start.
Edited by Kestral#1405 on 9/30/2012 1:12 AM PDT
Posts: 10,324
09/27/2012 06:41 PMPosted by IRRebel5150
Where were you a month ago when I rolled mine????


Trying very hard under the naive assertion that the class would be viable as I geared up. 50m gear in, still have problems in A3.

My Skorn WD can do it in around 10m, faster and with more MF.
Edited by Kestral#1405 on 9/27/2012 6:45 PM PDT
Posts: 10,324
Oh, and inb4 this is redirected to the monk forums where it can rot among all the other monk threads that Blizzard doesn't want to read.
Edited by Kestral#1405 on 9/27/2012 6:59 PM PDT
Any monk with half a brain should be raging at the 1.05 monk notes.

Keep your hopes down because you know that whoever is working on monk skills
is utterly incompetent, nothing will get fixed.
Op wins the interwebz today.
Posts: 10,324
Any monk with half a brain should be raging at the 1.05 monk notes.

Keep your hopes down because you know that whoever is working on monk skills
is utterly incompetent, nothing will get fixed.


I am. This current campaign is my last ditch effort to try and get us some attention in 1.0.5. Honestly, if we don't get it I'm out the door. Too much paragon on my monk to reroll.

Thing is it would be SO easy to fix us, at least for now.

1) Revert STI nerf.
2) Let dodge work on all attacks. Make it DR faster at low rating and slower at high ratings (so it doesn't basically hardcap at around 52%).
3) Let WOTHF proc stuff better. Let SW proc anything at all.
4) Reduce spirit costs across the board by 20-40%.
5) Chance the '0.33' in our set to '3', and give us some Allres on the pieces, much like the barb set.

Just these things would be enough to make us ALMOST as good as barbs.
Nothing to add. (except more solutions)

Don't roll a monk. In 1.0.5 I'm returning to my DH. Same stuff, better tank. LoL
Edited by redstone#2234 on 9/27/2012 7:06 PM PDT
Posts: 10,324
09/27/2012 07:04 PMPosted by redstone
Don't roll a monk. In 1.0.5 I'm returning to my DH. Same stuff, better tank. LoL


Yeah, this blew my mind. There was a video of a DH tanking MP10 elite phasebeasts and I was like "hang on, I'm a melee character. Why can't I do that?".

Ugh. Sometimes I wonder who is in charge of monk balance.
Posts: 7,159
+1 OP.

I'm currently testing a monk to see whether all the complaints are valid and so far...yes, by and large they are. I'll hopefully be making a thread myself down the line with some thoughts.

At this point, I just hope you guys get your nerfs undone for 1.0.5 and maybe a charity buff to your resource generation. It feels like it will take a Witchdoctor level of overhaul to make you great though.

All the best and I hope this doesn't get redirected or deleted.
Keep your hopes down because you know that whoever is working on monk skillsis utterly incompetent, nothing will get fixed.


Don't be silly. Monks will get fixed any day now. Of course, when I say "fixed", I mean it in the same way that you mean it when you say you are taking your dog to the veterinarian to get him "fixed".
Posts: 7,159
Well, new patch notes are up and no love for you guys yet. At least you didn't get the Wizard nerfs...
The only character I regularly play is my Monk (and only at level 59 so far) and I'm having a great time. Maybe you just need to treat this game like a game and not an extension of your self-worth.
09/27/2012 07:24 PMPosted by Aran
The only character I regularly play is my Monk (and only at level 59 so far) and I'm having a great time. Maybe you just need to treat this game like a game and not an extension of your self-worth.


You have not reached the level of frustration yet.
Everything in this thread is 100% true. How sad
Posts: 4,834
09/27/2012 07:24 PMPosted by Aran
The only character I regularly play is my Monk (and only at level 59 so far) and I'm having a great time. Maybe you just need to treat this game like a game and not an extension of your self-worth.


Hard to have fun when other characters are far better.

Inferno is where you'll know what the OP is talking about.

And I completely agree for a lot of the points.
Melee =/= kiting. I feel I have top tier gear and feel like mp8-10 should be doable. Buuut... When I do it I die. A lot. Even more if I stay still. Fix me please. Don't make me go back to moe ht otherwise elites are going to take 48% longer to kill. That's a lot when it takes like 5 minutes already and don't get me started on reflect damage affix. And we can't dodge it now? Wtf? Give us a dmg passive besides combo strike. Maybe a passive with defense and offensive. That would be creative. Hopefully they test this kind of stuff............. I know if I was going to make some drastic changes I would put it on a internal test server, gear myself with the same gear as some of the top 500 monks, try to play on mp10 then adjust accordingly. That's just me though. Done now.
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