Diablo® III

[GUIDE] The Tank DH V.7

09/25/2012 08:05 AMPosted by Morogoth
no, CoT cannot crit anymore. then again i didnt really count on it for nightstalker anyway. in 1.03 and before sentries didnt crit either :)


CoT crits, that's the only Sentry that could trigger Nightstalker.

yes, CoT still procs m4d so it will give you hatred. basically, if it gives you LoH it will proc mortal enemy. which if i remember right thorns/bleed dont.

Bleed and Thorns proc M4D pre-1.04.

EDIT: no sense in arguing ;) just believe me that it does. Because it really does and it has been an integral part of my setup pre-1.04. Haha.

1.04 still makes CoT Crit and proc Nightstalker.

If you'd look into the Immortal DH thread, I've placed quite numerous builds that specifically used M4D for spamming Hatred Spenders. Bleed and Thorns are there too.

As for CoT, I believe I've posted that already in the same thread.(earlier versions)
Edited by Chrizzle#1390 on 9/25/2012 8:41 AM PDT
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Someone said they had a backflip with harden, I am not seeing any similar behavior.
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no, CoT cannot crit anymore. then again i didnt really count on it for nightstalker anyway. in 1.03 and before sentries didnt crit either :)


CoT crits, that's the only Sentry that could trigger Nightstalker.

yep, because it has an actual proc %
like i said none of them could crit before 1.04
then they all could crit in 1.04 (go look you will see all turrets crit right now). the problem is they screwed it up. since they have no proc rates they cant trigger night stalker or anything else for that matter. CoT on the other hand had a pre existing proc rate due to its limited use. So it can proc night stalker right now, it just wont in 1.05 because they took crits away again.

09/25/2012 08:49 AMPosted by DirkGently
Someone said they had a backflip with harden, I am not seeing any similar behavior.


i heard that too. i havent seen it.
however, it could be just a really rare bug from the previous ability. it use to backflip so it wouldnt be unheard of for it to just randomly appear.
Edited by Morogoth#1321 on 9/25/2012 8:56 AM PDT
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So the backflip probably is a bug, not working as intended right? It can be annoying when I backflip right into desecrator :(
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Currently grenades are buggy in the PTR. They just randomly quit working in an area or a boss fight. I had to kill Crypt of the Ancients with Lingering Fog and Cluster Arrow. Felt like my old kiting days running around trying to recharge my Hatred.
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On the plus side with CoT, it looks like crit damage will roll higher on rings/ammys. So the non-attack build will be able to drop huge CoT, pets, and jagged spikes.

LoH may also roll higher? Unconfirmed? Maybe 1k on amulets like weapons?

Here's rough math for sustaining bombs.

M4D ME will refund 4.5 hatred of 30 cost of bomb at 1.5 proc ratio/cast.

Nightstalker@40% crit @ 3 mobs > prep punishment will restore ~8 hatred/cast

2x chain is 3 proc ratio/sec or 9 hatred/second via M4 DME

Base 1/sec disc regen > prep punishment is ~4.5 hatred/second

Legacy Nats > prep punishment is ~9 hatred/second

Shock collar @ 2 targets @ 40% crit @ 0 attacks/sec > 0 > prep punishment > 0 hatred/second (Bombs replace attack animation) (Otherwise would generate 10 hatred/sec)

Base regen 4 hatred/second.

Quiver or cloak 1 hatred/second.

------------------------------------

Bombs net cost 17.5 hatred

Hatred regen = 27.5/second

=1.57 bombs/second, limited by attack speed for 1 H/shield, 2H/quiver. Can only be pulled off DW or IAS gear.

Can replace nats with bat + custom engineering 3rd turret instead of boar, lower hatred regen but higher dps per hatred, roughly same total defensive stats.

Your right, you can do an unlimited bomb build. Your limit isn't going to be hatred (legacy nats) like I thought. It's going to be attack speed (cast speed). Your % weapon damage/second against melee is going to be pretty obscene. Past even ToC levels. My math says 1437% weapon damage/second from 2 turrets + bombs.

It is about the 400k dps I estimated for my gear. It's far higher than HA SoT and multishot standard setup, but your weapon swing is only 30k ish as a tank at a few hundred mil instead of 100k as glass. Long setup time says it would be efficient against power level X, but not as efficient as multishot spam @ 200Mil against normal inferno.

Maybe with bat + 3rd turret would free up disc for gloom...gloom lifesteal @ 400k dps would be...pretty nice. By some strange coincidence I ended up with a bomb ring and cloak...1600%..eheheh

Total skills used (4) = , prep punishment, bombs, CoT, m4d ME
Total passives used (2) = nightstalker, custom engineering.

Total gear used = Tank nats + 40% crit + hatred regen 1 source, can substitute bat/stronger gear for nats.

Edit: work in progress
Been thinking about my bomb build...bombs replace auto attacks...may be more efficient to drop jagged spikes with disc (540% dmg for 6 disc vs 315% extra replacing gas with bombs) which don't and gas grenade bosses. Considering m4d ME and prep:punishment...would make a complex attack cycle though...too hard to mathcraft. Will try see how it all turns out. Mobility is an issue, build may not be viable. Multishot spam...is just soo easy.
Edited by SteveC#1225 on 9/25/2012 9:45 PM PDT
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09/25/2012 09:48 AMPosted by MoJoJoJo
Currently grenades are buggy in the PTR. They just randomly quit working in an area or a boss fight. I had to kill Crypt of the Ancients with Lingering Fog and Cluster Arrow. Felt like my old kiting days running around trying to recharge my Hatred.


ya i saw the post on this too. i havent had it happen yet though.
i really want to know what is causing it though so i can test it. i dont want grenades doin that live if im in MP10 :O
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so I can do diablo on mp10, he has 257mil hp, but I can definitely take him solo without anything close to fatal damage. Pretty pleased with this.
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09/25/2012 10:31 AMPosted by DirkGently
so I can do diablo on mp10, he has 257mil hp, but I can definitely take him solo without anything close to fatal damage. Pretty pleased with this.


LOL 257mil

i dont plan on ever using MP10 any time soon :p
its fun playing around in it, but the mob health is ridiculous even in ACT1.

i think probably MP 2-4 will be just fine :)
Edited by Morogoth#1321 on 9/25/2012 11:09 AM PDT
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Yeah, farming maybe up to mp5 is going to be where I am at. I think it would take me like 3 hours of straight dpsing him to kill him (mp10). While I can do it, I really don't want to spend all that time.
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I did ghom on MP10 earlier, 128mil hp, only took about 25 minutes with 17k dps.
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Interesting stuff on MP if you havent already seen it:
Lylirra posted:
Monster Power is considered "on" once you bump it up to Monster Power 1, at which point all monsters in Inferno become level 63. "No Monster Power" means that the system is technically "off," so monster levels will remain the same and you won't get any of the scaling XP/GF/MF boosts.


As it is currently on the PTR, for Monster Power 1 and above in Inferno, all monsters will a) become level 63 and b) share the same drop tables (for Acts I, II, III, and IV). That's exactly what I meant by "in the same way that Act III and Act IV currently do."


Lylirra was explaining how all mobs in ACT1-4 will become L63 when you choose monster power 1 or higher. Also, when monster power is on all drop rates will be the same as ACT3 and 4 rates.

So, the difficulty for all mobs are going to be the same across the board being they are L63. It wont matter where you are. Just farm which ever ACT you like :)
Edited by Morogoth#1321 on 9/25/2012 8:20 PM PDT
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@Morogoth

Been tweaking my build alot in the last days and finally ended in MP10 tonight using this :

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#WkeSVg!eVf!cccbbY

Compared to the actual V7 Tank build I realize now that we are moving to the same place. From now I will add my support here. But I still believe that Tank DH is viable with 0 LoH.

Actually uploading a video killing Ghom and Rakanoth at MP 8.

EDIT : Never thought you would be using my build without giving the credit. Just sad I didn't notice before I said that. Just because I just been told that my build isnt really new (LOL) Been tempted to look where it is from so I think I found out. But it proves it works eh. 30k DPS too small at Monster Power Level 10 just saying. Probably below MP 5. I will finally stick to my build tho.

Chrizzle's post on my forum isn't really appreciated.
Edited by PureLaine#1705 on 9/30/2012 3:59 AM PDT
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@Morogoth

Been tweaking my build alot in the last days and finally ended in MP10 tonight using this :

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#WkeSVg!eVf!cccbbY

Compared to the actual V7 Tank build I realize now that we are moving to the same place. From now I will add my support here. But I still believe that Tank DH is viable with 0 LoH.

Actually uploading a video killing Ghom and Rakanoth at MP 8.


The main problem with your build is your using nats 4 piece for disc regen. Most ppl dont have that luxury. So, this build works for you as is but it has to be modified for everyone else.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#WkeSVg!XVf!cccbbY
This is what the build would be. Night Stalker instead of Archery. Since you have to keep Gloom up.

edit: also im not particularly thrilled with the high delay imminent doom has. maybe thunder ball would work better? 1s delay, same radius, and it has a stun. only down side being you dont have the same damage as imminent doom but that shouldnt be a big deal.
Edited by Morogoth#1321 on 9/25/2012 9:35 PM PDT
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Forget about all these efficiency and tank builds. Too much math. Lets just all build infinite strafe builds with hot pursuit and troll public games. Knives and bombs. Ninja. Cool.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#jilTVe!WXb!ccYcZc
Edited by SteveC#1225 on 9/26/2012 2:22 AM PDT
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wow version 7 now :)

@Morogoth: I just think maybe we need to update General Stats for Inferno. I think dh tank need higher stats after patch 1.04.


actually i did make them higher. check the old links, you will notic the stats have gone up.
it was raised in:
v.4 to v.5
v.6 to v.7

did you have a specific change in mind though?


I am not sure about the act 3 boss azmo. with 5k armor/550 AR/45k health, can we survive against 1 hit of the big floating fireball?
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Hey guys,

Has anyone noticed in the PTR with Evasive Fire: Hardened that as long as it is in your action bar, it activates automatically, without having to even use the skill? Technically it can be used as an indirect passive for the 50% armor bonus. I know you'd be giving up a skill slot for it, but it may be worth it for the higher MP levels.

Edit: may have just been buggy, it's not doing it anymore
Edited by DBlock#1905 on 9/26/2012 8:47 AM PDT
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The main problem with your build is your using nats 4 piece for disc regen. Most ppl dont have that luxury. So, this build works for you as is but it has to be modified for everyone else.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#WkeSVg!XVf!cccbbY
This is what the build would be. Night Stalker instead of Archery. Since you have to keep Gloom up.

edit: also im not particularly thrilled with the high delay imminent doom has. maybe thunder ball would work better? 1s delay, same radius, and it has a stun. only down side being you dont have the same damage as imminent doom but that shouldnt be a big deal.


I was building it for everyone on my page with bitter pill and nightstalker but in 1.05 its no longer required for old nat set users.

Imminent Doom beside the 2 seconds delay, you have 2 extra seconds to move or type something fast while still being healed by it. This, is why I use bolas.

There is me at RAkanoth and Ghom MP 8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3EaUCt6obA&feature=youtube_gdata

Tested MP 10 solo A3-4 and I do it.
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Hey guys,

Has anyone noticed in the PTR with Evasive Fire: Hardened that as long as it is in your action bar, it activates automatically, without having to even use the skill? Technically it can be used as an indirect passive for the 50% armor bonus. I know you'd be giving up a skill slot for it, but it may be worth it for the higher MP levels.


i dont get the same effect.
what your seeing is a bug.
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09/24/2012 10:53 PMPosted by DirkGently
this is amazing. http://cl.samdmarshall.com/JgqQ/

@DirkGently

I've been in PTR and realized even with "OK" skills and gear (110k DPS no SS and up to 400 resists with roughly 36k HP) it is challenging to play at higher monster Power levels.

I had been saving up to get some upgraded gear such as vile ward.... 2soc Manticore, Witching Hour belt (you know the stuff most of us would love to have) but decided to take a different route.

Let me preface this by saying from the get-go I've not been a fan of a TANK style DH. I felt this is not the best use of a DH as we are range. From an overall perspective I still hold this to be true, however with the insane HP the higher monster power levels have this is just not doable to a medium based build such as I have. I didn't have much gold (only 30m) and knew there weren't any real upgrades that would be worthwhile for me. So I decided to look at the possibilities of running a tank DH. I used DirkGently as my role model of how to build my Tank (Thanks for letting me steal gear affix setup). Seen posts of him(assuming it is a him and apologies if it isn't) in PTR regarding being able to tank at the higher levels and not die even though the kills were not very fast.

I spent a little time last night spending most of my gold (spent ~25.7m gold) to see how a tank build would be. This is more of a full tank build and not a DPS tank.

I use an enchantress so Yes I do have some extra buff (numbers shown below are numbers in REAL GAME not PTR as it won't let me copy over my new gear over to PTR at this point.

The gear has shown up on my profile page:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/BubbaGump-1297/hero/8698236

*NOTE: I've replaced boots shown in profile (Firewalkers) with differnt pair of boots I bought last night so numbers on my profile may not exactly match current gear setup)

Again numbers shown below are based on 1.0.4 and not PTR 1.0.5 which should increase numbers even more with perfectionist/boar. Numbers also reflect enchantress as my follower. WhenI get home later I'll post a picture of the numbers below for an easier view.

STRENGTH: 225
DEX: 1,650
INTEL: 279
VITALITY: 1445
ARMOR: 5529
DAMAGE: 18,270
HP: 68,140
HATRED: 125
DISC: 30

CC: 15%
CD: 102%
Block Amount: 3706-4704
Block Chance: 19% (need a better shield lol)
Dodge: 36.5%
Damage Reduction: 64.83%
Physical Resist: 1181
Cold Resist: 846
Fire Resist: 804
Lightning Resist: 804
Poison Resist: 804
Arcane/Holy Resist: 804
Thorns: 296
Life Per Second: 1145
Life Steal: 2.2%
Life Per Hit: 2190
Gold Find: 105% (mostly based on paragon 32 and enchantress)
Magic Find: 117% (mostly based on paragon 32 and enchantress)

EHP (numbers based on firewalker boots I had on when profile updated Firewalkers have more dex but no vit and less resist)
Original build = 280,923 w/dodge
Tank Build = 926,226 w/dodge

My DPS is terrible but this is normal for full tank builds. But even with 1.0.4 playing I can sit and tank as all the tanks do. Only elite I found I had to move were the big spider packs that like to all shoot fireballs at your feet. I found if I didn't move some I would die. Maybe I don't have my skills setup exactly as I should or should look at other skills, but just started out last night so there is a tank learning curve as well.

With the change to Perfectionist and using a BOAR this current tank setup should give me somewhere at the 1,000 mark resists for 1.0.5.

This may be the build I must use for higher mpower levels. I hope there is a way to copy this over to PTR to test out new updated skills.

From what I'm seeing I've built this for what I consider pretty cheap and is by no way a "final" tank build for me but something to grow from.

Using the numbers shown from Morogoth I'm good all the way up through Act IV with the exception of Armor. I'm about 470 short of armor. I'm not sure if the "armor" recommendation of 6,000 is unbuffed or buffed. If it is buffed I may be OK as Perfectionist should add another 550 armor to me taking me over the 6,000 recommended limit.

tl;dr
Need a very cost effective way to play higher levels of mpower in 1.0.5 without breaking the bank for hundreds of millions..... Tank option is a very viable build from what I'm seeing... even in 1.0.4 as another way to mow down groups and elites.

Thanks to Morogoth for the work on this thread and for a great gear setup to base my build off of from DirkGently!

Your Friendly DH,

Bubba
Edited by BubbaGump#1297 on 9/26/2012 10:57 AM PDT
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