Diablo® III

KEY drops should NOT

09/26/2012 12:02 PMPosted by Lylirra
I don't want to weigh in on the current argument of whether or not drop chances should be affected by Monster Power level just yet
I'll weigh in. It's a bad idea. Let me tell you why. It's the same reason you guys keep having to nerf Inferno to begin with. If people can't do something they will complain get pissed and quit.

This is why MP is a bad Idea too. Because many people will try it and get all whiny when they can't do MP10, and complain about how "unfair" it is. It's the same reason you guys capped my MF in 1.04.

So if you are going to implement things only elite players can do then stick to that, don't keep backing down from it. Inferno was supposed to be only for the best of the best. Do you remember how much it was Hyped up in the Beta? I do. I remember being told it was designed to be damn near impossible.

Fast forward a few months. Nerf nerf nerf. Anyone that can't beat it in 1.04 isn't trying very hard, and 1.05 is going to make it even easier. So what happens when people whine about Mp10? Does inferno get nerfed to Nightmare mode (cause at MP0 it's on par with hell mode) so mp 10 become current inferno?

To preserve MP10 you need to allow for drops to not scale by MP level.
Edited by ChaosLeech#1406 on 9/26/2012 12:34 PM PDT
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yes u need 5 stack to get the key u can get the keys from level 6 with 5 stack too i tested it 100% drop key on level 6 power but u need to get 5 stack.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Google337-1271/hero/1822835

and yes WW barb is still good to use..make sure u get an axe to do the dps if u want to play lvl 6+
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09/26/2012 12:02 PMPosted by Lylirra
You'll need five stacks of NV in order for the keys and the demonic organ pieces to drop.
Then maybe you should Move the wardens to places where 5 stacks can be obtained before finding them? Other wise we have to farm further ahead to get 5 stacks then come back to find the warden. not very intuitive.

On the Not very Intuitive note, do us all a favor and tell the Techs to enable MP by default. (still default at zero). And while your at it do the same with elective mode. This way people can find it right away. Not everyone reads the forums, and Chat gets bombarded with the same question all day in the PTR. "How do it set MP?". It's currently a two step process, and it's totally unnecessary that it has to be turned on to begin with. Like Elective mode, there is no point to having it turned off ever.
Edited by ChaosLeech#1406 on 9/26/2012 12:41 PM PDT
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09/26/2012 12:30 PMPosted by fBSunny
Are you saying that unless you have five stacks of NV keywardens will not ever drop keys?


Yup. (Or, at least that's how it's designed to work. If players are getting keys without the five stack, then that's likely a bug.)
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09/26/2012 12:02 PMPosted by Lylirra
Did know ML affected this. Source?


Currently, both the keys and the demonic organ pieces (Vengeful Eye, Devil's Fang, and Writhing Spine) have higher chances to drop in higher MP levels, all the way up to 100% in MP10.

I don't want to weigh in on the current argument of whether or not drop chances should be affected by Monster Power level just yet. Obviously, we think it's a good idea and worth trying out, but if you feel differently, then I'd definitely like for you to continue discussing your thoughts on that topic. If you don't like it, tell us why. (Or, if you DO like it, be sure to weigh in too.)

09/25/2012 02:38 PMPosted by Horus
I killed the act 3 keywarden on MP 10 once and the key didn't drop. (didn't have any NV stack though)


You'll need five stacks of NV in order for the keys and the demonic organ pieces to drop.

We felt this was a reasonable requirement, otherwise players could simply farm the keys in a lower MP, then set their game to MP10 and farm bosses for guaranteed drops. With the five stack, players will at least need to be able to kill monsters in that MP level in order to benefit from the increased organ drop chance.


im pretty sure ive already stated WHY i dont like it. People should NOT be rewarded or punished for playing whatever levels they CHOOSE to play. ALso it was already stated by JAY IIRC, they did NOT want people to feel forced to play higher levels, this is why achievements are not added.

Also, making everything and everyone rely on NV is not fun, and it should not factor into these kinds of things AT ALL. Its bad enough you wont let people play the way they want to for MFing and exping, but to make it a requirement is ludacris.

And yes, organs should be 100% drop all the time, THOUGH not the keys. Both should also be tradeable, infact there should be NOTHING that is not tradeable, ever in game franchise BUILT on tradeing. Let people play the way they want to, LET US HAVE FUN, instead of taking our beloved great Diablo name, and trashing it left and right.

But let me say this again, MP1-10 and NV should NOT have any factor on these drops EVER. Keys need to be random unfrequent drops, and organs 100%.

Also instances of these fights should NOT reset on death, maybe a death limit could be added?

Also where is the main UBER event, seems you guys forgot a main event?
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You'll need five stacks of NV in order for the keys and the demonic organ pieces to drop.
Then maybe you should Move the wardens to places where 5 stacks can be obtained before finding them? Other wise we have to farm further ahead to get 5 stacks then come back to find the warden. not very intuitive.

On the Not very Intuitive note, do us all a favor and tell the Techs to enable MP by default. (still default at zero). And while your at it do the same with elective mode. This way people can find it right away. Not everyone reads the forums, and Chat gets bombarded with the same question all day in the PTR. "How do it set MP?". It's currently a two step process, and it's totally unnecessary, that it has to be turned on to begin with. Like Elective mode, there is no point to having it turned off ever.


just dont try to get the key then if you're bad at this game, and stop crying
Edited by collin#1142 on 9/26/2012 12:40 PM PDT
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09/26/2012 12:40 PMPosted by collin
just dont try to get the key then if you're bad at this game, and stop crying
You completely missed my point.
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yes u need 5 stack to get the key u can get the keys from level 6 with 5 stack too i tested it 100% drop key on level 6 power but u need to get 5 stack.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Google337-1271/hero/1822835

and yes WW barb is still good to use..make sure u get an axe to do the dps if u want to play lvl 6+


How many times did you test? It sounds there should be a <100% chance to get a key until MP10. Perhaps 10% at MP1, 20% at MP2, etc.
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I think the biggest mistake about D3 was to make a Hard game, you listened to a few people on foruns who weren't that expressive considering the big player base D2 had, by creating a very hard game you messed up whith many people self pride, they died a lot and ragequit.

Now you're trying to do the same thing again, by making PM 10 so much better than PM 0 you will just make players think it is mandatory and here we go again..
Edited by Carlucio#1777 on 9/26/2012 12:49 PM PDT
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I don't like the idea of the MP affecting the ring mats drop because I like to be a solo player and it is about impossible to solo the uber bosses at MP10 ... this is just like the MF gear swap and by that I mean that I don't like to be pushed into something I don't like to do just to try be competitive.

Edit:
09/26/2012 12:48 PMPosted by Carlucio
Now you're trying to do the same thing again, by making PM 10 so much better than PM 0 you will just make players think it is mandatory and here we go again..


MP10 should be as hard as it can be made and this is a good thing, but yes MP10 is mandatory because of the new legendary ring which is mandatory and MP10 is 100% chance... Please don't let it like this when it hits live.
Edited by Paulo#1190 on 9/26/2012 12:52 PM PDT
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09/26/2012 12:40 PMPosted by Axe
And yes, organs should be 100% drop all the time, THOUGH not the keys.
This. ^After going through all the crazy amount of time it takes to actual get the machine, to not get the organ to drop would be a travesty. Requiring the process be done in P10 for best efficiency, means it needs higher rewards as well. The ring is OK, but no where near as powerful as those Charms were in D2. The organs dropped 100% of the time in D2 and the keys were random. It was a nice balance and it worked very well.
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Wouldn't be so bad if we were able to select MP level for a public game. If this option is added into the game then i think that blizzard should leave it alone. If they do not allow the MP system to be enabled for public games then they most definitely need to take a look at this. I don't want to gear out a barb just to get a ring for my WD.
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I would rather enjoy same drop chances on all difficulties etc something like 20 % since those who want a challenge can take on those in MP10 and get the feel of beaten the most badass mobs ingame (same for übers) or make it 100 % but set a larger spawn point etc or lesser chance or the key wardens spawning in that area, so that the drop chances can get increased.

Do not force us to feel inferior to those who can do MP10 with so much better rewards (guarantied rewards)

becides we can't sell it nor wear 2 on same char so why hurt us with these drop chances?

edit
I agree on this comment made by Axe
Posted by Axe
And yes, organs should be 100% drop all the time, THOUGH not the keys.
Edited by HURRICANE#2539 on 9/26/2012 1:00 PM PDT
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You'll need five stacks of NV in order for the keys and the demonic organ pieces to drop.

We felt this was a reasonable requirement, otherwise players could simply farm the keys in a lower MP, then set their game to MP10 and farm bosses for guaranteed drops. With the five stack, players will at least need to be able to kill monsters in that MP level in order to benefit from the increased organ drop chance.


Well lets look at it from a time vs reward perspective shall we.

Stacking NV will take a bare minimum of 10 minutes in lower difficulties, at MP10 I think we can assume 20minutes, on top of this we can add at least 5 minutes to find and kill the keymaster.

So for lower MP levels we have a run time of 45minutes to possibly get a key, lets say we do it in MP5 and have a 50% chance of drops, that would mean 1h30m for one set of keys. Reward for this is the possibility to get mats for making a ring with 4 random properties, something that can take an eternity to get a result in the top 10%.

For MP10 your time obviously goes down to 45minutes per key and guaranties mats to make the ring with yet your reward is subject to the same small chance to roll a good roll.

Now one must ask, is it really fun to spend an hour and a half getting a chance at materials that in the end might prove to be useless to you, I'd say the time spent vs reward is skewed. Having both restrictions, time to acquire keys and random rates on mats, is just to much, keeping one while making the other static seems much more balanced.

A better solution to reward players doing higher MP level ubers would be to drop more mats thus allowing more ring crafts for their efforts, as the ring is BoA it won't disrupt the market anyway that some have more craft attempts to get a close to perfect ring.

Alternatively allow for fast farming of keys without the requirement of 5xNV and keep the drop rates of the mats when killing the bosses, I'm guessing keeping the time requirement to farm the keys is the preferable way within your design though as NV seems to be more and more mandatory to even play the game at all.
Edited by Redblade#2133 on 9/26/2012 1:03 PM PDT
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Lets not forget that all of this is for a ring with random properties. The main problem is that it's a ring. Which means you have to give up a valuable slot to use it. So if it doesn't roll very well, your stuck using inferior ring (can't be traded) or it'll just collect dust in your stash. Make it a token like the follower tokens and ad a token slot to main character just for this purpose. That slot gives more Xpack type possibilities too. That way it feels more like a "reward" rather then a choice.
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Do not force us to feel inferior to those who can do MP10 with so much better rewards (guarantied rewards)



This.
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Do not force us to feel inferior to those who can do MP10 with so much better rewards (guarantied rewards)



This.


What is the point of a more challenging area if it does not provide at least marginal benefit. Do you also not want to feel inferior to players with higher levels of gear when farming the same content?
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This.


What is the point of a more challenging area if it does not provide at least marginal benefit. Do you also not want to feel inferior to players with higher levels of gear when farming the same content?


i would more likely want for those who is in higher MP to have an increased chance for more keys to drop.

also i said "since those who want a challenge can take on those in MP10 and get the feel of beaten the most badass mobs ingame (same for übers)"

aka your pride will be boosted for beating a higher lvl mob... becides does azmo or even diablo so higher rewards on MP10 to be worth it to farm?

also "marginal benefit" kidding me... they take MP10 for only this benefit and farm on MP5... pathetic if you ask me
Edited by HURRICANE#2539 on 9/26/2012 1:41 PM PDT
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please dont make 5NV a requirement for key drops. NV is already required to do almost anything there is to do in an efficent manner, and always being forced to get buffs isnt any fun at all.

Also, most will probably play only MP1-3, and if a key drops 10% of the time on MP1, a lot of those people will need 30+ runs before they see even one key.
Add the fact that a ring with 4 random properties most of the time wont be the upgrade you hoped for, and you´ll have a lot of frustrated players in complaining in "general" real quick.

Imo, starting at 50% in MP1 and increasing the droprate in 5% increments would be much better if you insist 5NV is required. Otherwise the drop chance obviously could be somewhat lower than that.
Edited by CREAM#2955 on 9/26/2012 1:28 PM PDT
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Where's the "give me all loot button" is all I'm hearing here...

Seriously. This whole conversation is "As soon as this patch hits, we want to be able to beat/complete/get everything in our first palythrough". I don't understand this mentality. They want to develop something that takes effort, not something handed to you on a silver platter.
Edited by Makabriel#1277 on 9/26/2012 1:34 PM PDT
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