Diablo® III

KEY drops should NOT

85 Undead Priest
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Posts: 3,780
Did everyone miss the whole point of the MP system? Optional difficulty for increased rewards? People did "/players X" on Diablo II for the increased rewards, not for the increased difficulty. The increased difficulty is the cost of getting those increased rewards.

The point is that you find the MP level that's most efficient for you. Running MP10 is going to be too slow for most people, so you choose the highest level you can run reasonably quickly.

Better gear lets you fight harder monsters, and do so at a higher speed and with less risk. That's kind of the point. What else should gear do?

How should it all be balanced so that MP10 isn't "mandatory", and yet still worth doing? The problem is that so many people think that the best option is always mandatory, no matter the gap between best and second best. If best is 1% better than second best, you'll still have people complaining that there's no choice in the matter, and they're "forced" to play a certain way.

And yet somehow there's all these people complaining "don't tell me how to play!", whenever Blizzard reduces the gap between best and everything else, that Blizzard is "taking away diversity", when actually, they're increasing it.

People need to learn that "viable" doesn't mean "best".
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Best geared people should have more advantages.. this is just like the US economy. The rich stay rich and the poor stay poor, don't be an idiot and think that because you have good gear means you should get even better gear faster. Frankly, it should work the opposite.
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It's fine currently. Less chances of exploits. You got to earn it honestly.
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They still need to move the wardens though since 5 stacks are required. It's silly to think you can't run through normally and be at 5 stack by the time you hit some of them, when 5 stack is required for key drops. Now they ARE making NV a mandatory system.
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Don't be an idiot and think that because you have good gear means you should get even better gear faster. Frankly, it should work the opposite.


Wrong.

Getting better gear to kill faster and get better gear faster is the whole point of the game.

What you have just suggested is communism, a system where hardworking or smarts are not rewarded.
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I still think the mp system is too easy.. they need to make it more difficult lessen the rewards of the lower levels and increase the rewards of the higher levels.. dont think right now the higher levels are any better than the lower ones I play the highest 10.. it takes longer.. and I find less than I would on say 6 or 7 since I can faceroll all the way up to mp 7. 8/9 not too bad but still not as fast for the rewards as 6-7.. and 10.. really tbh other than to get the 100% drops on the keys.. is a waste of time. I can do mp10 depths1-azmo in about 2 hours maybe less.. and the drops are seriously nothing special.
Edited by BelowZero#1346 on 9/26/2012 7:13 PM PDT
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09/26/2012 06:47 PMPosted by Wtflag
Don't be an idiot and think that because you have good gear means you should get even better gear faster. Frankly, it should work the opposite.


Wrong.

Getting better gear to kill faster and get better gear faster is the whole point of the game.

What you have just suggested is communism, a system where hardworking or smarts are not rewarded.


No, what I suggested is that new players shouldn't feel hindered just because they haven't played much.

Difficulty in mechanics, difficulty in puzzles and challenges. Not this I RAMPED UP THE DAMAGE AND HEALTH, if you don't have the gear you get one shot.

All I'm asking is that it's fair for everyone, not vastly unfair and slow for one, and super fast for the other.

Real Money gets you into this game faster than playing, so dedication means nothing.
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09/26/2012 12:02 PMPosted by Lylirra
We felt this was a reasonable requirement, otherwise players could simply farm the keys in a lower MP, then set their game to MP10 and farm bosses for guaranteed drops. With the five stack, players will at least need to be able to kill monsters in that MP level in order to benefit from the increased organ drop chance.


you are genius

this a is a good challenge

thank you so much
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09/26/2012 12:39 PMPosted by ChaosLeech
Then maybe you should Move the wardens to places where 5 stacks can be obtained before finding them? Other wise we have to farm further ahead to get 5 stacks then come back to find the warden. not very intuitive.

explore the freaking maps...you want that the char auto shoot for you too??? maybe is too much hard work for you play the game.
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I don't want to weigh in on the current argument of whether or not drop chances should be affected by Monster Power level just yet. Obviously, we think it's a good idea and worth trying out, but if you feel differently, then I'd definitely like for you to continue discussing your thoughts on that topic. If you don't like it, tell us why. (Or, if you DO like it, be sure to weigh in too.)


I do like the fact that higher Monster Power levels give you better drop chances for keys and organs, however I also think that the current system feels unrewarding if you don't play at MP10. I think there should be a 100% droprate for an organ on MP1 so you always get a reward after killing the uber bosses. Higher MP levels should give a chance for multiple organ drops to create an incentive for players to do the uber bosses on higher difficulties. The recipe for the ring could be changed so that it also requires multiple organs of the same type. In essence the system would be the same as it is now, except that players won't feel the victim of RNG at MP < 10.
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I can survive MP10 Act 3, and having to sit and pew pew for an extended period of time on regular mobs is rough. If MP10 guarantees key, people will stop using other build for "perfect" DPS output, including gear selection. Increased Attack Speed, +Crit Chance, +Crit damage will be almost mandatory with 100k+ damage minimum (on top of +All Res and Class Main Stat).

I can see how farming the keys at MP1 is extremely fast, but low chance, and MP10 = 100% but very slow is a overall balance. I would imaging most people would rather have that 100% chance for the item, which could lead to more negative threads. As for me, I don't mind how it is now, though it would be nice to have equal chance across the board of MP.

If you do make it even across the board, you may need to add extra incentive to have people do MP10. As far what it is, and how to balance it, I can't say for sure. Since I don't know the balance point for a healthy economy + community + build diversity, I don't have a fair opinion.
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I can survive MP10 Act 3, and having to sit and pew pew for an extended period of time on regular mobs is rough. If MP10 guarantees key, people will stop using other build for "perfect" DPS output, including gear selection. Increased Attack Speed, +Crit Chance, +Crit damage will be almost mandatory with 100k+ damage minimum (on top of +All Res and Class Main Stat).

I can see how farming the keys at MP1 is extremely fast, but low chance, and MP10 = 100% but very slow is a overall balance. I would imaging most people would rather have that 100% chance for the item, which could lead to more negative threads. As for me, I don't mind how it is now, though it would be nice to have equal chance across the board of MP.

If you do make it even across the board, you may need to add extra incentive to have people do MP10. As far what it is, and how to balance it, I can't say for sure. Since I don't know the balance point for a healthy economy + community + build diversity, I don't have a fair opinion.


I think they should make the drop rate for keys even across the board but have the mf scale exponentially with monster power. That way people won't feel like they have to crank up monster power to get a key but if they're geared enough for mp10 they can farm it and get much better drops.
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i wonder how much would someone charge for killing the uber bosses in MP10 for a weak hero.
id be interested in that transaction
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"key drops should NOT be effected by monster level. people who CHOOSE to play at whatever level they choose, should NOT be rewarded or punished for their choice. give them each about a 10-20% chance of dropping, no matter the difficulty."

I have to strongly disagree. /player 8 was used in d2 for more loot, not for more difficulty. Without the increase to loot, it would be an abandoned and worthless system.

"Also keys and organs should be TRADEABLE"

I'm not sure where to stand as far as keys go and I disagree with having organs tradeable. On the one hand, I'd love to be able to farm something different for a change, much like nilathak farming in D2 for keys of destruction. However, making the entire uber system non-tradeable adds an element of character end-game progression that may be lacking elsewhere in the game.
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How about killing the monster that drops keys INCREASES the chance of the next drop of key. Let's say you kill the Monster key at MP10 - this would either drop a key OR increases the chance of getting the next drop by MP x 5%. (5% as an example)

If you kill the monster key at MP10 and failed to get a key you, get 50% chance to get a key on the next run. In case you get a key, you reset your chances 0.
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Where's the "give me all loot button" is all I'm hearing here...

Seriously. This whole conversation is "As soon as this patch hits, we want to be able to beat/complete/get everything in our first palythrough". I don't understand this mentality. They want to develop something that takes effort, not something handed to you on a silver platter.


Agreed.

I think higher MP = higher drop chance is a excellent idea, and REWARDS those who have put substantial time in the game.
This is supposed to be END GAME content, and should NOT be easily available to the average joe unless they are willing to put time in to do it.


i have put plenty of time into this game, Thank YOu, infact far too much time. However i did NOT jump in and join in all the early easy farm exploites and get rich early, and i never got lucky with any mega droppes to sell. yet, you think your better than i? i dont think so, take your elitist attitude, GTFO. thanks.
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I disagree with this, after farming MP9 for my infernal key plan and currently farming for the keys, if you take the time to do this, you deserve higher reward. Don't have the time well test your fate against D3's RNG system. What incentive is there to farm higher MP's then? The Magic Find alone is not worth it, I was still getting crap drops like 300 dps lvl 63 wands, the keys are the only real incentive. I do agree that the keys should be tradeable as it gives even more incentive to do higher MP's. Enough catering to people who don't want to work as hard yet expect equal reward.
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MAn too many people on here complaining about having to farm low levels.. and not get a key.. not be able to beat the new system they implemented in one night.. put in the leg work.. so you can farm lvl10 and get the key 100%.. its as simple as that.. really.. I dont understand the general view of D3 players.. they want to be able to master the game with little to no work.
Edited by BelowZero#1346 on 9/26/2012 9:29 PM PDT
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key drops should NOT be effected by monster level. people who CHOOSE to play at whatever level they choose, should NOT be rewarded or punished for their choice. give them each about a 10-20% chance of dropping, no matter the difficulty.

Also keys and organs should be TRADEABLE, let people have fun and play the game, and let the AH work as a gold sink, which is drastically needed.


Holy moly, dont make them tradeable.. what the hell are you thinking? Do you have any idea what that will cause?

Blizz put them in for a reason.. not for every tom, @@*%*%*%, and harry to get them. As soon as you bring trading into the picture, your bringing in the greed and the "oh you want that, that'll be 1 billion gold".. um no.
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