Diablo® III

Monster Force Clarification

09/27/2012 12:01 PMPosted by Christophe
well, not entirely, somewhere in the middle of high and low with it hedging towards where your setting is. I'm not so sure it really matters in the end, this game isn't about questing, it's about killing elites and the stuff will die. If they don't care how fast we kill in solo games why do they care about it in multi, if rewards are relative, who cares.


They are subconsciously caring about it because their game searching system is not suitable for ARPG. I hope they came to realize this and redesign their game searching system.
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09/27/2012 11:39 AMPosted by Lylirra
this seems like a bad idea for public games... so if I'm on MP1 and I queue for a public game I can randomly be stuck in a MP10 game?


It doesn't work for Public Games. If Monster Power is on, you cannot make your game public. Similarly, when making a public game, Monster Power is disabled.

As you've noted, there are a few issues with allowing MP in Public Games:
  • In general, harder content tends to be less enjoyable with random strangers.*
  • It would make matchmaking more difficult by increasing the number of matchmaking pools (one new pool for each MP level). In turn, that could increase wait times.
  • Issues associated with "leeching" or similar behavior could be exacerbated, especially if under-geared players chose extremely high Monster Power levels for the games they wanted to be matched into.

Although we love and support co-op, since Monster Power is a new system, we didn't want to open it up to Public Games just yet. We're definitely open to revisiting that idea down the road, though.

*Your mileage may vary.


In my opinion it is worse to have MP disabled for public games than to have it enabled.

No matter if it is disabled or enabled it will be a lot harder to get into a public game after the patch. Especially for hardcore mode. If it's disabled then most people would most likely choose to not do public games. If it's enabled instead, you will have as you said larger matchmaking pools making it harder for people to get into public games.

Make MP something individual that would only affect your own stats instead of monster's health and damage. If one MP means 10% more damage from monsters, change it to a 10% reduction of dps, armor and resistance. I imagine this would be just as easy to code as changing a monsters stats. This would also make it possible to add it to public games without increasing the matchmaking pools.

Regarding "leeching", while it's a problem, it will always be there. With or without MP. There is always vote kick to sort out these issues.
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this seems like a bad idea for public games... so if I'm on MP1 and I queue for a public game I can randomly be stuck in a MP10 game?


It doesn't work for Public Games. If Monster Power is on, you cannot make your game public. Similarly, when making a public game, Monster Power is disabled.

As you've noted, there are a few issues with allowing MP in Public Games:
  • In general, harder content tends to be less enjoyable with random strangers.*
  • It would make matchmaking more difficult by increasing the number of matchmaking pools (one new pool for each MP level). In turn, that could increase wait times.
  • Issues associated with "leeching" or similar behavior could be exacerbated, especially if under-geared players chose extremely high Monster Power levels for the games they wanted to be matched into.

Although we love and support co-op, since Monster Power is a new system, we didn't want to open it up to Public Games just yet. We're definitely open to revisiting that idea down the road, though.

*Your mileage may vary.


im glad you are leaving this optional open for down the road. i like the added challenge of mp + the free mf/gf/xp added so i probably wont be running much in public games any more since i can get more xp and loot solo or with my wife and occasionally a friend or 2. but as soon as mp comes to public games i will probably be right back in there
Edited by FiSH#1988 on 9/27/2012 12:29 PM PDT
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Please reconsider making monster power available in public games. Until you come up with a better solution down the road just make the equivalent to 1.04 inferno act 3 (monster power 2/3 or w/e) the only MP available in public games. That way everyone farming act3 now can do act1/2 in public games with decent loot and a much needed change of scenery.

09/27/2012 11:39 AMPosted by Lylirra
It would make matchmaking more difficult by increasing the number of matchmaking pools (one new pool for each MP level). In turn, that could increase wait times.

Don't separate the pools so strictly? If you search for a public game with MP5 and there aren't any available then begin searching down in MP until a game is found.

09/27/2012 11:39 AMPosted by Lylirra
Issues associated with "leeching" or similar behavior could be exacerbated, especially if under-geared players chose extremely high Monster Power levels for the games they wanted to be matched into.

How about requiring a minimum paragon level for MP over 2/3 in public games only (for example paragon lvl 10 required to search for MP4, paragon lvl 20 required to search for MP5 etc.). Obviously paragon level doesn't always indicate gear level it does indicate experience on the character being played. If you have played a character for long enough to get the paragon level requirements set you should know whether or not you can handle going up 1 MP lvl in a public game and can't go up to super high MP level to leech off people without investing a lot of time into a character.
Edited by Levistus#1929 on 9/27/2012 1:06 PM PDT
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  • In general, harder content tends to be less enjoyable with random strangers.*


  • Not really a problem since it's optional. If you don't enjoy harder content with random strangers, you can play solo or with friends.


  • It would make matchmaking more difficult by increasing the number of matchmaking pools (one new pool for each MP level). In turn, that could increase wait times.


  • You don't necessarily need one pool for each MP level. If you're only okay with a couple of extra pools, adding just (for example) MP5 and MP10 would be better than nothing. And wait times are really short right now — even if they double, I think most players would be okay with waiting the extra second or two that would mean.


  • Issues associated with "leeching" or similar behavior could be exacerbated, especially if under-geared players chose extremely high Monster Power levels for the games they wanted to be matched into.


  • Now, this is a real problem. But not an unsolvable one. You could make it a requirement to public-queue at MP-X that you complete a certain task (such as killing a boss with 5 NV stacks) solo at MP-X.
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    In my opinion it is worse to have MP disabled for public games than to have it enabled.

    No matter if it is disabled or enabled it will be a lot harder to get into a public game after the patch. Especially for hardcore mode. If it's disabled then most people would most likely choose to not do public games. If it's enabled instead, you will have as you said larger matchmaking pools making it harder for people to get into public games.

    Make MP something individual that would only affect your own stats instead of monster's health and damage. If one MP means 10% more damage from monsters, change it to a 10% reduction of dps, armor and resistance. I imagine this would be just as easy to code as changing a monsters stats. This would also make it possible to add it to public games without increasing the matchmaking pools.

    Regarding "leeching", while it's a problem, it will always be there. With or without MP. There is always vote kick to sort out these issues.


    This would be bad....
    I mean... if I create a 0MP public game and someone comes in with a 10MP setting, that guy, unless damn powerful, would just bump the power of everything for me.... and I'd be stuck essentially alone in a multiplayer game as the other guy would be nearly worthless unless he's so damn powerful it doesn't make a difference....

    alternatively, you can get a pretty damn powerful guy, make it create a game with MP0, then 3 guys fully equiped with MF Stuff enter the game with MP10 and just fall back while the pretty powerful guy wipes out the MP0 monsters the other 3 guys just feast in MP10 loot... lol.

    MP in public games could be ajusted acording to the lowest setting between players or something like this...

    I mean, if the 4 players are in 1, 4, 7 and 10 MP, then the game is set to 1....
    this way no one would play a game they can't handle and if everyone is hoping for high monster power then the game would provide it for them.

    Not a perfect solution, but better than just set it to 0, IMO.
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    Can you at least make public games MP1 so it still feels a little rewarding to those who want to farm with random strangers? MP1 shouldn't make things frustrating and it won't feel like I'm being punished just because I get bored of soloing. I mean the difference between MP0 and MP1 is a massive difference for Acts 1-2, but that difference is required if you want half decent quality drops while having fun with random people.
    Edited by SOC#1607 on 9/27/2012 12:46 PM PDT
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    this seems like a bad idea for public games... so if I'm on MP1 and I queue for a public game I can randomly be stuck in a MP10 game?


    It doesn't work for Public Games. If Monster Power is on, you cannot make your game public. Similarly, when making a public game, Monster Power is disabled.

    As you've noted, there are a few issues with allowing MP in Public Games:
    • In general, harder content tends to be less enjoyable with random strangers.*
    • It would make matchmaking more difficult by increasing the number of matchmaking pools (one new pool for each MP level). In turn, that could increase wait times.
    • Issues associated with "leeching" or similar behavior could be exacerbated, especially if under-geared players chose extremely high Monster Power levels for the games they wanted to be matched into.

    Although we love and support co-op, since Monster Power is a new system, we didn't want to open it up to Public Games just yet. We're definitely open to revisiting that idea down the road, though.

    *Your mileage may vary.


    Please re-consider this. Not everyone has regular farm-buddies they can join in along (e.g. those of us with irregular play hours).

    I have a blast playing hardcore inferno public games (yes such a thing exists!) I enjoy both "carrying" weaker players, as well as on occasion meeting an uber-player carrying me.

    Yet with monster power I fear that I'll be trudging through long cold hours on my own :(
    Edited by yongri#6523 on 9/27/2012 12:48 PM PDT
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    Ok.. I'm thoroughly confused! You seriously need to clarify by what you mean by Monster Power is or isn't available in MULTIPLAYER! No one is going to want to face roll normal in coop for next to no reward! You are effectively pigeon toeing players into solo play! This game model was designed for cooperation.. you might just have well gone with the sandbox idea and allowed LAN... If Monster Power isn't MULTIPLAYER (for ALL to join) then it's a joke IMO!
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    09/27/2012 12:45 PMPosted by SOC
    Can you at least make public games MP1 so it still feels a little rewarding to those who want to farm with random strangers? MP1 shouldn't make things frustrating and it won't feel like I'm being punished just because I get bored of soloing. I mean the difference between MP0 and MP1 is a massive difference for Acts 1-2, but that difference is required if you want half decent quality drops while having fun with random people.


    I think this is the best solution, or just have 2 levels - 0 and 1. Those that can't hack 1, could go back to baby mode, while MP1 would allow the difficulty to still be easier than now, but provide good enough loot opportunities. I think not having any will completely stop anybody that is any good from ever doing public games.

    While I do not go into them all the time, there are times it is nice to just go and mess around with a random group, but if I will be penalized for doing so above their skill and gear level, then I will never do it.
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    Ok.. I'm thoroughly confused! You seriously need to clarify by what you mean by Monster Power is or isn't available in MULTIPLAYER! No one is going to want to face roll normal in coop for next to no reward! You are effectively pigeon toeing players into solo play! This game model was designed for cooperation.. you might just have well gone with the sandbox idea and allowed LAN... If Monster Power isn't MULTIPLAYER (for ALL to join) then it's a joke IMO!


    It is on multiplayer.

    just not in public games.

    You can create a game in any monster power you want and invite your friends to it.
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    It just doesn't make sense that I CAN'T open a MP+3 or whatever to the PUBLIC.

    Perhaps a mechanic where the party leader can only set the MP once in a public game and it becomes listed at that difficulty? Also, maybe reduce the number of difficulty tiers...

    And a side note... really... isn't NORM, NIGHTMARE, HELL & INFERNO really supposed to be the tiers ANYWAY!?

    Inferno was SUPPOSED TO BE extremely HARD! Yet for some reason BLIZZARD is creating 10 more tiers of difficulty of these already established difficulties to appease a few people who don't accept established structure! It's insane! Before you know it the community will be whining that MP10 is too hard and you'll restructure and modify difficulty yet again... SERIOUSLY... grow a backbone BLIZZARD and stick with the proven structure!
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    09/27/2012 12:01 PMPosted by Christophe
    well, not entirely, somewhere in the middle of high and low with it hedging towards where your setting is. I'm not so sure it really matters in the end, this game isn't about questing, it's about killing elites and the stuff will die. If they don't care how fast we kill in solo games why do they care about it in multi, if rewards are relative, who cares.


    If HP is different per player, I'm looking for pub games where everyone is MP 1, I will use MP 10 hit it a few times, let them kill the monsters and I score the rewards... See my point?
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    Although we love and support co-op


    Sorry, but I just don't believe you. There are so many design decisions which are absolutely contrary to multi-player playing in Diablo 3. Merging multiplayer and monster power system is a process of creativity (in the sense of having good ideas how both can work together well), so where is your creativity?
    Furthermore, where is the old blizzard spirit: "a feature is not ready yet so we don't release it yet"? Now, instead of making the monster power system a mature feature, you just release it completely unfinished without it being in harmony with the rest of the game.
    You have to realize that you made the game online-only, so the people expect to have fun when they play with others. Right now, you "force" the people to play alone.

    edit: Oh yeah, congratulations by the way, you've just made Diablo 3 a full singleplayer game.
    Edited by Herzog#1184 on 9/27/2012 1:11 PM PDT
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    I agree with you that public games of monster power would not be feasible. I don't see any reason why you shouldn't be able to get a team of 3 other friends going and play MP10 in a private game.


    And thus "looking for team" channel became useful.


    hahahaha. ikr?
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