Diablo® III

Penny Arcade on D3 vs. TL2

Thought this was a great article that summed up the differences pretty well:
http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/torchlight-2-vs.-diablo-3-welcoming-the-player-instead-of-locking-them-in
Edited by DatAxe#1578 on 9/29/2012 10:15 AM PDT
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I feel like that whole article was written to point at the RMAH and make a sound judgement that it ruined the game.

I am extremely dissapointed that the article came down to the RMAH. WHat a !@#$ty was to judge the game.

I also think they have the skill system analysis backwards. TL2 really has little flair and less decision making and more grind away 10 characters to try different skill combinations.

If they really wanted to praise TL2 they could have talked about Item affixes, drop rates Spam skills vs Combo skills.

But no, another article about the friggen RMAH.
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09/29/2012 01:53 PMPosted by Diosys
I am extremely dissapointed that the article came down to the RMAH. WHat a !@#$ty was to judge the game.


no it's a perfectly fine way to judge this game, RMAH is in it, it is therefore subject to judgement if not then they are not fully describing the game and is therefore biased/uninformed/making a judgement w/o all the facts.
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Posts: 552
I feel like that whole article was written to point at the RMAH and make a sound judgement that it ruined the game...

That's because it did. The author of that article didn't make it up: most of the decisions made for Diablo III that ruined the franchise can be laid at the feet of the almighty Real Money Auction House.

The Real Money Auction House and the concessions made to accommodate it broke the ARPG formula. The other ones were Blizzard trying to make the game dumb enough for comatose patients at nursing homes to not only play but succeed at.

If you don't understand that, I'd be happy to break it down in some detail.
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09/29/2012 11:57 PMPosted by ZehDon
If you don't understand that, I'd be happy to break it down in some detail.


I second that.
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Ill break it down.

Diablo 3 was not killed solely because of the RMAH. In fact talking about it as if its dead is dumb since the game is doing fine.

What may have killed Diablo 3 for mostplayers and what any article should really consider:
-Online Only
-Damage based off weapon Damage first, then stats
-Itemization
-Art Style
-Music
-Game launch and its own bugs
-Unreliable RMAH
-Restored HC characters due to "hack" reports
-Lag and unusual hitboxes, mobs hitting you because their swing registry comes before their animation
-MF changes
-Blizzards ignorance of Bots for 2 months before major banwave

So yeah... why the hell was this article written about the RMAH, I could list a dozen more things they could talk about and I would respect, but no its always about the damn RMAH. They must have loved the game if it came down to arguing about the RMAH.
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Ill break it down.

Diablo 3 was not killed solely because of the RMAH. In fact talking about it as if its dead is dumb since the game is doing fine.

What may have killed Diablo 3 for mostplayers and what any article should really consider:
-Online Only
-Damage based off weapon Damage first, then stats
-Itemization
-Art Style
-Music
-Game launch and its own bugs
-Unreliable RMAH
-Restored HC characters due to "hack" reports
-Lag and unusual hitboxes, mobs hitting you because their swing registry comes before their animation
-MF changes
-Blizzards ignorance of Bots for 2 months before major banwave

So yeah... why the hell was this article written about the RMAH, I could list a dozen more things they could talk about and I would respect, but no its always about the damn RMAH. They must have loved the game if it came down to arguing about the RMAH.


Let me break it down for you then:

- it was online only because of the RMAH. If people can edit themselves godly items for solo or Lan play there would be no interest in buying those items.

- skill damage dependind on weapon damage - guess what - you need better itamz to have higher damage. Go buy them.

- itemization - they oversimplified items - few scaling stats, removed most non damage mods, elemental damage and procs on hit were risible, removed weapon range and stat reqs (which were good in D2). Why ? because they don't want you to keep alternate sets of weapons so there is no real variability - when you buy a new item you're supposed to sell the other. Keeps the RMAH going.
- art style is probably the best part of the game - it was done before the "new team" got there.
- MF changes were directly linked to making the RMAH work. Just like IAS nerf.
- Blizzards ignorance of Bots for 2 months...bots are the ones that bring uber items to the RMAH. Why punish them ? They are fueling the RMAH.

So the point is - the game was ruined not by the existence of the RMAH - but by the changes they made to "encourage" the use of the RMAH. And the PA guys are smart people that know a bit about gaming.
Edited by Maegglin#1669 on 10/7/2012 5:15 PM PDT
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What may have killed Diablo 3 for mostplayers and what any article should really consider:
-Online Only
-Damage based off weapon Damage first, then stats
-Itemization
-Art Style
-Music
-Game launch and its own bugs
-Unreliable RMAH
-Restored HC characters due to "hack" reports
-Lag and unusual hitboxes, mobs hitting you because their swing registry comes before their animation
-MF changes
-Blizzards ignorance of Bots for 2 months before major banwave

So yeah... why the hell was this article written about the RMAH, I could list a dozen more things they could talk about and I would respect, but no its always about the damn RMAH. They must have loved the game if it came down to arguing about the RMAH.


Never said the game was dead, it's just fully automated with bots. If there weren't any people there wouldn't be getting gold seller friend adds over and over 5 months into the game's release. LoL

-Online only <-- This is because of the RMAH, why else would it be? Offline is a lot easier feature to make then online.
-Damage based off weapon Damage first then stats <- Kills diversity and experimentation and anything funny to do in an RPG like this genre tries to imitate.
-Itemization <-- Works around RMAH once again. So your 4 player game is indeed entirely influenced by the 10 million copies that were sold since day1 and the remaining players affect your loot, so no your game is not mutually exclusive even if you play it solo since you start. Which in turn might suck for most since botters end up finding all the best things and the rest of us just get rolled with !@#$ stats and a lottery upgrade here and there.
-Art Style <- subjective to any audience, is simply a bonus to a game shouldn't be bothered to review this, unless you're talking about theme which if it fits the game's mood or the presentation of the art then sure. if it's just about "wow they look sooo good/bad" then who cares. forum3 is hella fun 0 graphics; just text.

Game Launch and Bugs <- lol error 37, natalya set redeemed 4discipline/sec, ToC, CM Wiz, Monk nerf, Hellfire ring, bots, teleportal halfscreen hits from melee mobs, no such thing as physical dodge, no transparency on a game that is dependant on knowing the systems, drop factored into auction house, game is virtually unrewarding the longer it runs.

Unreliable RMAH - previous points.

-Restored HC characters due to "hack" reports <- lol tell them to get their servers to be stable first and 0 maintenance for those playing HC then they shouldn't be hack-storing their HC char back, not to mention make their client bug free. (know of 3 friends who died in HC hell due to client bug just game crash, not CPU crash, GAME crash with error report thing to generate, logs back in char is dead. never even saw it die or the "You are Dead" message).

-Lag and unusual hitboxes, mobs hitting you because their swing registry comes before their animation <-- lol working as intended. not lag, although there is tons of rubberbandnig in my single player games

-MF changes <- Getting rid of the risk vs. reward system with blatant paragon levelling which in terms is who can farm the fastest to get rid of this stat altogether, leaving those farming super well to keep farming super well and any new player is just dirt.

-Blizzards ignorance of Bots for 2 months before major banwave <- lol the amount of bans is miniscule compared to ANet's action for bots on GW2, the amount of bots D3 has is probably more than the active "real" player count. I know of a few still botting since day1 just to make money off RMAH, it's lik as if blizzard endorses it or something. LOL
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Posts: 2,847
I feel like that whole article was written to point at the RMAH and make a sound judgement that it ruined the game.

I am extremely dissapointed that the article came down to the RMAH. WHat a !@#$ty was to judge the game.

I also think they have the skill system analysis backwards. TL2 really has little flair and less decision making and more grind away 10 characters to try different skill combinations.

If they really wanted to praise TL2 they could have talked about Item affixes, drop rates Spam skills vs Combo skills.

But no, another article about the friggen RMAH.


Probably because people who seem to be smarter than you are aware that the RMAH is the cause of many problems/disappointment about the game. That's why it's brought up so much. Logic.. how does it work?
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I feel like that whole article was written to point at the RMAH and make a sound judgement that it ruined the game.

I am extremely dissapointed that the article came down to the RMAH. WHat a !@#$ty was to judge the game.

I also think they have the skill system analysis backwards. TL2 really has little flair and less decision making and more grind away 10 characters to try different skill combinations.

If they really wanted to praise TL2 they could have talked about Item affixes, drop rates Spam skills vs Combo skills.

But no, another article about the friggen RMAH.


Probably because people who seem to be smarter than you are aware that the RMAH is the cause of many problems/disappointment about the game. That's why it's brought up so much. Logic.. how does it work?


Yes, because mathematics just necessarily bows to the RMAH gods. What logic do you drink? I never knew that if a drop rate = %, it just magically modifies itself due to the RMAH. Like some sort of Wizard, you should probably go to Hogwarts and learn some levitation spells if you honestly believe that the math singlehandedly manipulates the RMAH in any sort of way.

What a lot of people seem to magically deny, is that there wasnt any kind of item selling in Diablo 2. Despite all those bots that were always flooding games with their gear selling ads. Blizzard just accepted that it was an inevitable reality. ITEMS BOUGHT WITH MONEY WAS IN D2 and was rampant. To think you can so "logically" dismiss this is some utter koolaid that you just try to pour down peoples throats.

The game comes down to variables. There are variables for everything. If something has a 1% droprate, then EVERYTIME an item drops, you have a 1% chance so seeing it. So with some sort of bad logic behind them people start saying "Well every 100 items I should see it" NOPE. That is NOT how this math works as well. See the problem is, and hopefully all the gradeschool people can learn a little from this, your chances of seeing gear is solely and 100% based off the random number that generates when the items rop and how its applied in their various equations.

This is also why, a number of people call you guys flagrant conspiracy theorists. Because you somehow believe that some magic fairy goes around and does !@#$, so you dont get items. However, if you actually go on the GAH or the RMAH, there are 100s of the same legendaries as you. So, how are droprates just bad for you?

You see, the people who have tons of legendaries spend every waking hour grinding. If you are spending 1-2 hours a day and are getting nothing its because your chance of getting a good item based off the amount of time you spend is literally quite low. Whereas the guy who spend 8-12 hours playing the game, has a better chance of seeing those items because he increases his odds through time. Believing that some magical folk change your specific droprates are wives' tales.

So this is my wish of good luck to you, since you guys seem to want to keep living in a box. Go look at the equation and get a grip.

Chance to drop item (ilvl) = (1*(100/MF) * iType) * (Mlvlscore * Multiplier)

Theres the equation for you, this does not magically change for the RMAH. Your Random numbers that you rolled when the items dropped simply sucked.

http://diablo3x.com/magic-formula-diablo-3-magic-find-cracked/

WIll also so you your "Witchcraft" you seem to blame on the RMAH.
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Its a shame we didn't get the 2008 version of diablo 3..

Ya know; the one that was good
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10/08/2012 11:01 AMPosted by Diosys
What a lot of people seem to magically deny, is that there wasnt any kind of item selling in Diablo 2. Despite all those bots that were always flooding games with their gear selling ads. Blizzard just accepted that it was an inevitable reality. ITEMS BOUGHT WITH MONEY WAS IN D2 and was rampant. To think you can so "logically" dismiss this is some utter koolaid that you just try to pour down peoples throats.


You're an idiot, RMAH is Blizzard's way of getting that cut of money that players were spending on a 3rd party source. And D3 isn't flooded with gear selling ads or gold selling ads on friends list ??? LMAO dude I play fking solo never once even went public and yet I get friend added by gold sellers... what's that mean? Blizzard has their own bots out??? or their database is just hacked?

So this is my wish of good luck to you, since you guys seem to want to keep living in a box. Go look at the equation and get a grip.

Chance to drop item (ilvl) = (1*(100/MF) * iType) * (Mlvlscore * Multiplier)

Theres the equation for you, this does not magically change for the RMAH. Your Random numbers that you rolled when the items dropped simply sucked.

http://diablo3x.com/magic-formula-diablo-3-magic-find-cracked/


Way to post some theory craft douche, look at the bottom there's even statements where they're saying they're not sure. omg fking get some REAL proof.

Read the blue part fking idiot.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6794979891

Get Wrecked. And I Quote "So, in fact, the AH has to be a factor in how we drop items."
Yeah... okay i'm so sure your diablo3x is so updated with the constant ninja changes and nerfs and updates they do.

Just because that ONE formula that MAY be how it's determined doesn't include what it means server side. There's a reason why Torchlight 2 drops GOOD loot like MAD and LOTS of it compared to here where you spend 50+ HOURS just to get NOTHING yet when you look at the AH there's TONS of stuff on there that's WAY better than you'll ever find.
Edited by KradisZ#1651 on 10/8/2012 12:28 PM PDT
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Oh god... oh god, the community CM said this.

We are going to believe the guy hired to talk on the forums! Because he is a coder right? The guy is paid to say stuff. ANything Bashiok says about actual game mechanics should be taken with as much validity as a two year old telling you how relativity works.

I dont know if you noticed but his title is Community Manager.

"Drops have to be an issue in the AH". Yeah in the INITIAL programming of the game, they took that into consideration. But again, without applying a major patch which would change the coding, the droprates arent going to change (like they are in 1.05).

See the problem here is the people on these forums are seeing bad drop rates, so they come here and whine and expect to be rewarded the same way they were in WoW, where everything up to raiding was gained through questing, or crafting and basically spoonfed to you.

So yeah, I acknowledge that when they were coming tyo release the game they had to ensure not everyone in the game was going to have the same luck. But it is still determined by math. Yet, all we get are these conspiracy theorists coming on the forums talking about "Ninja Nerfs" to droprates like they actually do it.

And thats the sad part.

But dont worry, I am sure the Droprate Pixie will up your rates eventually magically OR maybe when the coding is changed in 1.05, youll actually see them change.
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Honestly, Diosys, I think you're wrong. I think the drop rates WERE kept low to encourage RMAH use.

Whatever the reason, the drop rates are MUCH worse than D2. JMO.
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Oh god... oh god, the community CM said this.

We are going to believe the guy hired to talk on the forums! Because he is a coder right? The guy is paid to say stuff. ANything Bashiok says about actual game mechanics should be taken with as much validity as a two year old telling you how relativity works.

I dont know if you noticed but his title is Community Manager.


Didn't know you worked for blizzard. At least the statement I pulled up is official compared to your theoretical !@# lmao.

And thats the sad part.

But dont worry, I am sure the Droprate Pixie will up your rates eventually magically OR maybe when the coding is changed in 1.05, youll actually see them change.


OH THANK GOD WE HAVE YOU WORKING FOR THEM.

Live in denial pl0x oh wait you already are :).
Edited by KradisZ#1651 on 10/10/2012 2:59 AM PDT
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Whatever the reason, the drop rates are MUCH worse than D2. JMO.


I dunno about that.... they were bad in d2 too...
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