Diablo® III

15 Reasons Not To Play A Monk Part II.

Posts: 8,956
I'm not seeing it...yes we use the same mechanics...we hit stuff we kill stuff we take the loot.

And i wasn't saying the statement was dumb, I was saying that to not use a mantra would be dumb.
A Wizard that doesn't use Familiar isn't dumb.
A Wizard that doesn't use Magic Weapon isn't dumb.
A Demon Hunter that doesn't use Companion isn't dumb.

These buffs serve to enhance and buff those classes; they're not balancing around having them. Monks ARE.

Do you see the difference yet? Monks have ONE BUILD. That's it. Nothing else works. I stated what the build was above. You can argue some runes, different Mantra, or minor tweaks with the Generator, but the build is still the same. Same mechanics. That's why Monks have flawed mechanics.
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I'm not seeing it...yes we use the same mechanics...we hit stuff we kill stuff we take the loot.

And i wasn't saying the statement was dumb, I was saying that to not use a mantra would be dumb.
A Wizard that doesn't use Familiar isn't dumb.
A Wizard that doesn't use Magic Weapon isn't dumb.
A Demon Hunter that doesn't use Companion isn't dumb.

These buffs serve to enhance and buff those classes; they're not balancing around having them. Monks ARE.

Do you see the difference yet? Monks have ONE BUILD. That's it. Nothing else works. I stated what the build was above. You can argue some runes, different Mantra, or minor tweaks with the Generator, but the build is still the same. Same mechanics. That's why Monks have flawed mechanics.


I don't know if 'flawed' is the right word, but I kind of see what you are saying. Regardless, I take a character, pick the abilities I find the most fun, and try and beat the game.

Unfortunatly, the game isn't designed like D2 to make different build characters.
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Posts: 8,956
I don't know if 'flawed' is the right word, but I kind of see what you are saying. Regardless, I take a character, pick the abilities I find the most fun, and try and beat the game.

Unfortunatly, the game isn't designed like D2 to make different build characters.
Not if you play Monk. There's one build - Sweeping Winds with mostly defensive skills.

If you play Barb?
Build for Rend.
Build for WW.
Build for nearly any Spender they have.

Wizard?
Build for Archon.
Build for Hydra.
Build for Arcane Orb.
Build for 'Nados.
Build for Explosive Blast.
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I agree with the OP and endorse the changes he suggests, but from the sounds of it, many of you are simply relying too heavily on defensive builds. I could solo Act III easily without any LoH or Life Steal, no shield, only 500 resistances, about 6000 armor (w/STI), and 30k hit points. The key was getting my DPS up to ~60k--which meant loading up on critical hit chance and critical hit damage on top of attack speed.

Also, I found that MoE:Backlash is more effective than MoC:Overawe 90% of the time. Combined with cyclones and 50-60k unbuffed DPS, you can make short work of most non-elite mobs while also boosting defense.

All that said, my monk is in for a lot of trouble in 1.05. With the nerfs to STI and dodge, my armor is going to drop to 5500--which is very, very bad news considering my buffed resistances are only at 450 now.
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BTW, don't knock the Inna's set until you've tried four pieces together. Virtually free Sweeping Wind is an ENORMOUS game-changer. It normally eats up half our spirit points and usually dies out between mobs. Not only does that amount to a significant DPS boost, but it also makes your character much, much more flexible defensively since you'll have so many more spirit points to use on other abilities.
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I don't know if 'flawed' is the right word, but I kind of see what you are saying. Regardless, I take a character, pick the abilities I find the most fun, and try and beat the game.

Unfortunatly, the game isn't designed like D2 to make different build characters.
Not if you play Monk. There's one build - Sweeping Winds with mostly defensive skills.

If you play Barb?
Build for Rend.
Build for WW.
Build for nearly any Spender they have.

Wizard?
Build for Archon.
Build for Hydra.
Build for Arcane Orb.
Build for 'Nados.
Build for Explosive Blast.


I will say that all this talk has led me to try diff skills and 'way of the fists/fists of fury' seems to be a nice attack/ May be a tad better than thunderclap
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Posts: 8,956
10/01/2012 11:15 AMPosted by Mafoo
BTW, don't knock the Inna's set until you've tried four pieces together. Virtually free Sweeping Wind is an ENORMOUS game-changer. It normally eats up half our spirit points and usually dies out between mobs. Not only does that amount to a significant DPS boost, but it also makes your character much, much more flexible defensively since you'll have so many more spirit points to use on other abilities.
And this should be a clear indicator that Spirit Spenders need to change. Even Sweeping Winds.

I'd certainly be an advocate of having Sweeping on a "drain" system. Every 10 seconds, it drains 25 spirit, minus 5 spirit per stack. That would certainly change some game play.
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Bump. Who the hell is reporting all of these posts? Seems like every one.
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bump for response!
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I'm sure I posted in here already.

But I absolutely agree.

Just one example of the many why monks are so boring: Near death experience vs. Spirit Vessel.

Spirit Vessel is a passive that you can build your actives around, while NDE is just some tack-on passive that may be helpful but comes off as incredibly out-of-place and boring.
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...

Also, I found that MoE:Backlash is more effective than MoC:Overawe 90% of the time. Combined with cyclones and 50-60k unbuffed DPS, you can make short work of most non-elite mobs while also boosting defense.

All that said, my monk is in for a lot of trouble in 1.05. With the nerfs to STI and dodge, my armor is going to drop to 5500--which is very, very bad news considering my buffed resistances are only at 450 now.


Shld've read before you post... The guy above you just said

...

Do you see the difference yet? Monks have ONE BUILD. That's it. Nothing else works. I stated what the build was above. You can argue some runes, different Mantra, or minor tweaks with the Generator, but the build is still the same. Same mechanics. That's why Monks have flawed mechanics.


Or you're just trying to reinforce a point? I'd apologize if you are.
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I wasn't disagreeing with him in particular. I thought i was pretty clearly in indicating I was making a general point about monks overemphasizing defense with massive build-ups of LoH, life steal, resist, etc.
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Posts: 8,956
10/01/2012 12:07 PMPosted by IMvess
Or you're just trying to reinforce a point? I'd apologize if you are.
Yes, jut emphasizing the point.

10/01/2012 12:16 PMPosted by Mafoo
I wasn't disagreeing with him in particular. I thought i was pretty clearly in indicating I was making a general point about monks overemphasizing defense with massive build-ups of LoH, life steal, resist, etc.
See? He understood it. No hostility here. What Mafoo has done is taken an extreme damage build, which is rare for Monk. But even he agrees that in 1.05, it won't work out so well.

What I'd like to see are some changes that actually allow that style of play. Given the design of Monks as it is in 1.04 and 1.05, it's not happening. Just look at any Spender (even Sweeping Wind), and you'll see how off the mark Blizzard is with Monk. Sweeping only "works" because you can use it once, and keep it up indefinitely (essentially). The others are pretty terrible in terms of cost versus reward.

Mantras are one of the biggest design flaws especially. You sink Spirit to gain a 3 second buff. If you don't use a Mantra, you're gimped. A DH without campanion isn't gimped, and a Barb without War Cry isn't either (many of the 1.05 builds drop War Cry).

Scaling is also terrible for Monks. Most Mantras don't scale, and neither do heals/shields. Dodge suffers from extreme DR at about 50%, and doesn't work against things that are really deadly in this game (ground affixes).
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All these reasons ARE correct. Been playing Monk since release and I have rerolled barb ... having A LOT more fun, MORE efficiency, yes I got power rushed as a barb and helped with gear but whatever.

My points views are

Disadvantages

1. Monks are like a train: they have to kill EVERYTHING in order to take one step meaning no mobility.

2. Monks have NO AOE dmg apart from sweeping winds, and even then a lot of dps could be lost due to tornadoes spawning in the wrong direction

3. Monks does not have any other viable build other than:
FoT - Thunderclap
Sweeping Winds - Cyclone / Blade storm
MoC - Overawe/ MoD - Backlash
Serenity - Ascension/Peaceful Repose
BoH - Blazing Wrath
Choice Of Skill (Usually SSS or BF)

OWE
STI
Choice of Passive (Usually Guardian's Path, Resolve, Fleet footed or Transcendence)

These are the USUAL build(s), not because it's OP, it's because none other is viable. Dashing strike - Quicksilver, MAY be a viable skill, but imo SSS's invulnerability, from a defensive view, is much better.

4. Not very fun as it's usually left click and hold, watch health, spam serenity when health is low, if serenity is on cooldown then spam SSS, if that is also on cooldown BoH or Pot and refresh SW ... repeat until elite dies.

Advantages:

1. you NEVER miss loot, as you kill everything before moving (usually to keep SW up)

2. you have one hand free to snack since it's just left click and hold

I would think of more advantages, but I am trying extremely hard to think of any that the Monk has, considering that I've been playing them since release.

I've also noticed that most people who says Monk's are OP!. they don't play Monks. They don't understand the humiliation of playing a Monk and watching other classes farm quicker than you with less gear.

Barb's gear is worth a lot due to demand, demand is currently increasing as more people are rerolling barb, meaning that there's more competition. More competition = prices raise, as sellers know that they can still gain a profit, although items are overpriced.

Just because items are overpriced, does not mean a class is better than another, it just means there is a growing demand.

Btw, Barbs are fun, Monks ... not as much. I really hate rerolling as I've been playing monk since release, and yes I have tried DH and WD, but I still loved the monk the most. I'll be back to the Monk, WHEN blizz has decided to fix them up. But other than that ... hi barb!

P.S benchmarks for a monk to complete A3 with ease and even A4

34k HP
720 AR
60k Dps
4-5k Armor
1.8 AS
400-600 LoH

In the scenario where you cannot gain the DPS, drop DPS increase AR to 800, and LoH to 1.2k, AS the same, and also armor. I garuntee you, you can still farm, but not as efficient. and DPS should be around 30 - 40k. Thats some advice for someone trying to play monk.
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09/30/2012 01:12 AMPosted by Sorrow
I'm not saying monks can't do MP0. All classes can. But if you want a fun class that is realistic to gear up on an average player's schedule and will be able to do Uberbosses and high MP farming, you should definately go elsewhere.


My Monk took 58209587563 damage from your ridiculous unnecessary wall of text.

Don't play a friggin monk then. And I'm on MP8 on PTR and it's perfectly do-able.
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Seeing posts like this has me worried for when MP comes out. I havent done the PTR yet but from what im hearing its not looking good for monk... :/
i have 35k health, 600 AR, 80k damage buffed and I feel with MP comming out people with similar stats will be ok as other classes but monks will not be ok. Nice to see some Ubers, but reluctant to keep playing if I have to change everything about my character to do anything fun or new in the game.
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@kittex and @cybergoat: You are both wrong.

Kittex the monk has a very powerful aoe. Wave of Light with exploding light where each beam deals when it crits above a million dmg in my gear. So millions of dmg for 75 spirit is not cost efficient?
Seven sided strike is not cost efficient? Also dealing millions of dmg.

Just because you both are stuck in your gameplay doesn't mean there are no other ways to play a monk.

Repeating wrong things don't make them right.
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As I've mentioned in almost every other post where it's on topic: Sweeping Winds also needs a change. Currently its DPS is calculated using currently active weapon DPS (yes DPS, not damage). What this means is that whatever weapon you're going to attack with next gets used for its DPS. This is a bad thing, as half the time that weapon is going to be your offhand, and I don't know about you but I've never had my offhand DPS be anywhere near my mainhand DPS. Even after getting Echoing Fury and taking into account the buffed APS of the offhand, my current offhand is still significantly less DPS than my mainhand.
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All these reasons ARE correct. Been playing Monk since release and I have rerolled barb ... having A LOT more fun, MORE efficiency, yes I got power rushed as a barb and helped with gear but whatever.

My points views are

Disadvantages

1. Monks are like a train: they have to kill EVERYTHING in order to take one step meaning no mobility.

2. Monks have NO AOE dmg apart from sweeping winds, and even then a lot of dps could be lost due to tornadoes spawning in the wrong direction

3. Monks does not have any other viable build other than:
FoT - Thunderclap
Sweeping Winds - Cyclone / Blade storm
MoC - Overawe/ MoD - Backlash
Serenity - Ascension/Peaceful Repose
BoH - Blazing Wrath
Choice Of Skill (Usually SSS or BF)

OWE
STI
Choice of Passive (Usually Guardian's Path, Resolve, Fleet footed or Transcendence)

These are the USUAL build(s), not because it's OP, it's because none other is viable. Dashing strike - Quicksilver, MAY be a viable skill, but imo SSS's invulnerability, from a defensive view, is much better.

4. Not very fun as it's usually left click and hold, watch health, spam serenity when health is low, if serenity is on cooldown then spam SSS, if that is also on cooldown BoH or Pot and refresh SW ... repeat until elite dies.

Advantages:

1. you NEVER miss loot, as you kill everything before moving (usually to keep SW up)
2. you have one hand free to snack since it's just left click and hold

I would think of more advantages, but I am trying extremely hard to think of any that the Monk has, considering that I've been playing them since release.

I've also noticed that most people who says Monk's are OP!. they don't play Monks. They don't understand the humiliation of playing a Monk and watching other classes farm quicker than you with less gear.

Barb's gear is worth a lot due to demand, demand is currently increasing as more people are rerolling barb, meaning that there's more competition. More competition = prices raise, as sellers know that they can still gain a profit, although items are overpriced.

Just because items are overpriced, does not mean a class is better than another, it just means there is a growing demand.

Btw, Barbs are fun, Monks ... not as much. I really hate rerolling as I've been playing monk since release, and yes I have tried DH and WD, but I still loved the monk the most. I'll be back to the Monk, WHEN blizz has decided to fix them up. But other than that ... hi barb!

P.S benchmarks for a monk to complete A3 with ease and even A4

34k HP
720 AR
60k Dps
4-5k Armor
1.8 AS
400-600 LoH

In the scenario where you cannot gain the DPS, drop DPS increase AR to 800, and LoH to 1.2k, AS the same, and also armor. I garuntee you, you can still farm, but not as efficient. and DPS should be around 30 - 40k. Thats some advice for someone trying to play monk.


No AOE huh? Have to have 60K huh? 400-600 LOH huh?

You have no idea what you're talking about.
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