Diablo® III

The "Fun" Item/Build Diversity Thread!

UPDATE: Added image to Idea#2 Example

Hello! Welcome to a constructive post about how to make items more fun!

I posted this in the Diablofans forums and received a lot of positive feedback. So I'd thought I throw it out here to see what happens. Original post:
http://www.diablofans.com/topic/72159-promoting-fun-itembuild-diversity/

The Point of This Thread:
  • To generate ideas on ways to make the affixes of items feel more unique and important toward build diversity. If Blizzard could use any portion of any idea from this thread I would feel successful.
  • This post focuses only on the main attributes (Strength, Dexterity, and Intelligence) and how Active and Passive skills could make these affixes feel more important, while promoting diversity and personality.
  • Rather than coming up with new affix types (making items more complex than they already are), we can explore using the current, less-desired, affixes in a logical way that promotes this goal.
    • The secondary attributes of each class have almost no use currently. They provide minor defensive bonuses but there is absolutely no reason to specifically look for or stack one.

    Secondary Attributes:
    Barbarian - Dexterity/Intelligence
    Monk - Strength/Intelligence
    DemonHunter - Strength/ntelligence
    WitchDoctor - Strength/Dexterity
    Wizard - Strength/Dexterity

    Idea #1 - Give "Active" skills two bonus effects, each based on one of the two secondary attributes of each class.
    Here are examples of how it could work (one for each class):
    KEEP IN MIND, I thought of these very quickly. I would imagine the developers of Blizzard could come up with much more creative ideas.
  • Barbarian - Cleave
  • Dexterity: Improves the area of effect by 1% per 50 Dexterity.
    Intelligence: Gives Cleave a chance to stun, 1% per 50 Intelligence.
  • Monk - Crippling Wave
  • Strength: Increases the damage of Crippling Wave by 1% per 50 Strength.
    Intelligence: Increases the movement speed and attack speed debuff by 1% per 50 Intelligence.
  • DemonHunter - Strafe
  • Strength: Reduces damage taken while use Strafe by 1% per 50 Strength.
    Intelligence: Reduces the channeling cost by 1% per 50 Intelligence.
  • WitchDoctor - Gargantuan
  • Strength: Increases Gargantuan's damage and armor by 1% per 50 Strength.
    Dexterity: Give Gargantuan a chance to stun on hit of 1% per 50 Dexterity.
  • Wizard - Magic Weapon
  • Strength: Magic Weapon grants a chance to knock-back of 1% per 50 Strength.
    Dexterity: Magic Weapon also increases attack speed by 1% per 50 Dexterity.

    Idea #2 - Two "Passive" skill trees per class, one for each Secondary attribute:
    Remove the current three passive skill slots. Create two small passive skill trees for each class (one for each secondary attribute). Each skill tree is influenced by it's attribute in two ways:

    1. Stacking a secondary attribute increases the effectiveness of passive skills in it's skill tree:
  • Up to a cap per skill, where lower tier skills cap earlier. (to promote using low-tier skills from both trees even if you have much more of one attribute)
  • Maybe no cap for higher tier skills. (to promote continued stacking of secondary attribute)

  • 2. Accessing each tier of each tree requires having enough of it's attribute:

  • Tier 1 - 0 points of attribute. (skill effectiveness caps at once you reach 100 points)
  • Tier 2 - 100 points of attribute. (caps at 200)
  • Tier 3 - 200 points of attribute. (caps at 400)
  • Tier 4 - 400 points of attribute. (no cap)
  • Tier 5 - 800 points of attribute. (no cap)
  • Example:
    -A Barbarian has 178 Dexterity and 900 Intelligence.
    -He has access to Tiers 1 and 2 on the Dexterity Tree.
    -He has access to all Tiers on the Intelligence Tree.
    -Tier 1 and 2 in the Dexterity Tree will still be worth using even though he has way more Intelligence than Dexterity (because of effectiveness caps).

    Idea for Design (Blizzard's art, not mine)
    http://imageshack.us/a/img600/2366/passiveskillpanel.jpg

      The Outcomes:
  • Your Primary Attribute should still reign supreme, while the Secondaries provide flavor and playstyle.
  • Ideally, (for a Barbarian) there will be some builds that stack Dexterity, some that stack Intelligence, and then some that used mixed amounts depending on what passive skills they want to utilize among the trees.
  • The better your gear, the more skills you have access to. It's kind of like another leveling system in the form of loot, post 60. (Economy Boost!)
  • Attribute affixes on items will be much more exciting. More gear will find use/be saved/get traded.
  • Items gain personality and dictate builds much more.
  • There will be more choices than just damage and defense to think about when looking for gear.
  • Collecting multiple sets of gear will be useful for different builds.
  • Gems become much more interesting and meaningful in armor.
  • Sockets in armor are more exciting.
  • All "current" decently-geared 60s would probably have access to at least tiers 1-4 in each tree (from their stats). There would be many viable builds with those options and not much reason to complain about all the gear recently purchased. They could gradually change to which playstyle they enjoy the most.
    • Other Thoughs:
  • The design of the skill trees could be in many ways. What I envision is 4-6 tiers. Using many of the current passive skills but separated among the two trees for matching style. Obviously adjusting their potency to the tier in the tree that they sit.
  • (ie.) If you obtained 1 skill point every 5 levels from level 10 on, you would have 11 points at level 60. If the skill trees were 6 tiers, you could only obtain one tier 6 passive skill, even if you had enough attributes to access all 6 tiers on both trees. (could also be 9 points for 5 tiers, 7 points for 4 tiers, etc.)
  • With the most powerful passives being at the top of the trees, most players would probably go extreme in one tree rather than dividing equally. Mid-tier passives should be designed to work nicely with each other too, to promote more diversity.
    • Suggestions from Feedback:
  • How about in addition to your ideas, make the current skill affixes more interesting. Rather than just having "reduced cost of (skill) by X" and "increased crit chance of (skill) by %", add fun effects like "gives (skill) a % chance to stun/slow/knockback/lifesteal/etc". I can see builds being tied to specific skill-affixtype combinations.

    If not that, than at least increase the number of skills that can have the current skill-affix type, and apply them more often.
  • I think that you could even just tie these passives to a new affix....

    Like, if there are 3 trees per class, call them A, B,and C, you could get +points in these trees to spend, and your max would depend on how many points you had bonuses to for a particular tree. So it would read like +2 to [Tree A], and that would give you 2 points and unlock up to the second tier. Assume 1 choice for tier 1, 2 for tier 2, 3 for tiers 3 and 4 and 1 nice ability for tier 5. This way, you could have up to +10 points to a single Tree and apply points to every bonus.
  • Stats: Change stats so that each stat affects a different kind of skill, rather than being class specific.
    Strength: Improves damage for melee skills.
    Dexterity: Improves damage for ranged skills.
    Intelligence: Improves damage for AoE, or "special" skills, and increases proc coefficients.
  • (open to your suggestion)
    • Edits:
    Added "effectiveness cap" idea to the skill trees to promote diversity when choosing low-tier skills.

    Thanks for reading! Please leave feedback if you think affixes need more diversity and love!
    Edited by WarlockHolmz#1115 on 10/5/2012 10:18 AM PDT
    Reply Quote
    I'm assuming you wrote this in a word processor and copy pasted it here? Please adjust the spacing between your paragraphs and bullet points, it would make it easier to read.
    Reply Quote
    10/01/2012 05:03 PMPosted by B0SSK0NG
    I'm assuming you wrote this in a word processor and copy pasted it here? Please adjust the spacing between your paragraphs and bullet points, it would make it easier to read.


    Sorry. Should be mainly fixed now.
    Reply Quote
    I read this on the other forum.

    Very good ideas in here!
    Reply Quote
    Clever ideas! Hopefully Blizz could take something from it.
    Reply Quote
    Why not just make 1/2 or 1/3 of off-stats contribute like your main stat?

    Honestly, I can't believe they decided to go with main stat gearing.

    *Edit: 1/4th would probably be a better choice... especially b/c of slots like shoulders where people would start looking for trifecta main stats.
    Edited by mlhaynes4#1754 on 10/1/2012 9:28 PM PDT
    Reply Quote
    Not a bad set of ideas.

    I think that you could even just tie these passives to a new affix....

    Like, if there are 3 trees per class, call them A, B,and C, you could get +points in these trees to spend, and your max would depend on how many points you had bonuses to for a particular tree. So it would read like +2 to [Tree A], and that would give you 2 points and unlock up to the second tier. Assume 1 choice for tier 1, 2 for tier 2, 3 for tiers 3 and 4 and 1 nice ability for tier 5. This way, you could have up to +10 points to a single Tree and apply points to every bonus.

    So take a Wizard, and call his trees Frost, Fire and Arcane

    Frost:
    Tier 1
  • +5% to frost dmg
  • Tier 2
  • Increase radius of blizzard by 3 yds
  • Increase radius of frost nova by 1 yd
  • Tier 3
  • Increase chance to crit frozen targets by 5%
  • Give Ray of frost a 5% chance to freeze per tick
  • 50% chance to ignore frozen effects
  • Tier 4
  • Increase Cold resist by 25%
  • Increase the melee dmg reduction of frost armor by 10%
  • Ray of frost now pierces through targets
  • Tier 5
  • You leave a trail of frozen ground behind you as you run which slows enemies by 50% and deals 15% weapon dmg every second.
  • Just some examples, and just my own thoughts.

    I like the OP though.
    Reply Quote
    I like this idea but if blizzard takes so much time to get one patch going I seriously doubt we will have anything besides their own plans, but who knows..
    (I don't whine on from patch-to-patch time because in some % I still believe that the more time they work on the patch the better it will be)
    Reply Quote
    I like the idea, but Blizzard is focused on making money, I doubt this "lets make every item viable for a certain build" idea will see the light, ever.

    But, 1+, anything that can make useless items at least 1% viable, is a plus.
    Reply Quote
    Not a bad set of ideas.

    I think that you could even just tie these passives to a new affix....

    Like, if there are 3 trees per class, call them A, B,and C, you could get +points in these trees to spend, and your max would depend on how many points you had bonuses to for a particular tree. So it would read like +2 to [Tree A], and that would give you 2 points and unlock up to the second tier. Assume 1 choice for tier 1, 2 for tier 2, 3 for tiers 3 and 4 and 1 nice ability for tier 5. This way, you could have up to +10 points to a single Tree and apply points to every bonus.

    So take a Wizard, and call his trees Frost, Fire and Arcane

    Frost:
    Tier 1
  • +5% to frost dmg
  • Tier 2
  • Increase radius of blizzard by 3 yds
  • Increase radius of frost nova by 1 yd
  • Tier 3
  • Increase chance to crit frozen targets by 5%
  • Give Ray of frost a 5% chance to freeze per tick
  • 50% chance to ignore frozen effects
  • Tier 4
  • Increase Cold resist by 25%
  • Increase the melee dmg reduction of frost armor by 10%
  • Ray of frost now pierces through targets
  • Tier 5
  • You leave a trail of frozen ground behind you as you run which slows enemies by 50% and deals 15% weapon dmg every second.
  • Just some examples, and just my own thoughts.

    I like the OP though.


    Cool. Nice thoughts as well. I would be a little worried about adding an affix that gives points for the trees though, as I feel those would be the only items that would sell or be used.

    With the attributes, you could use very little on one item and more on another, or even none but limiting your access to the lower tiers of the trees (because every 60 has at least a minimum amount of the secondaries).

    Also, I like your passive ideas. My only note would be to make each passive affect multiple Active skills to promote more possible builds and combinations.

    Thanks for the response!

    I like the idea, but Blizzard is focused on making money, I doubt this "lets make every item viable for a certain build" idea will see the light, ever.

    But, 1+, anything that can make useless items at least 1% viable, is a plus.


    Thanks! The thing is, I propose that there would be "more" useful items, but the majority would still probably be too poor. Even though more items would be usable, players would also want to collect more items to try different builds.
    Edited by WarlockHolmz#1115 on 10/2/2012 10:16 AM PDT
    Reply Quote
    Here's my own, slightly related ideas:

    Stats: Change stats so that each stat affects a different kind of skill, rather than being class specific.
    Strength: Improves damage for melee skills.
    Dexterity: Improves damage for ranged skills.
    Intelligence: Improves damage for AoE, or "special" skills, and increases proc coefficients.

    The Int bonus is kind of a hard one for me to nail down.
    Note that this system would probably cause wizards to favor Dex over Int, unless they were going for a high proc build. Monks would probably favor Strength as much as Barbs would.

    Skill affixes:
    Bring back Glyph levels, and make them item affixes. As in, each individual glyph would have its own affix, available on any item (class specific affixes on class specific items would be nice, of course). Itemization would explode, but at least items would be interesting.
    Reply Quote
    I LOVE YOUR IDEAS. As matter of fact ive always thought this.

    All stats should have some sort of effect on all skills. Damage, cool downs, how long effects last etc. It would make all rolls some what more useful in one way or another and make alot more items less worthless.

    You should be hired by blizzard.


    Thanks! Keep the discussion going here and maybe someone important will see something they like. ;)
    Reply Quote
    Liking this thread. The secondary attributes idea is pretty cool
    Edited by Neon#1837 on 10/2/2012 2:16 PM PDT
    Reply Quote
    Added more suggestions.
    Reply Quote
    Added a concept image for idea#2 example.
    Reply Quote

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