Diablo® III

Old hellfire ring was the real end game!

Your real complaint seems to be with the nature of the game itself--it sounds like you want a loot system like World of Warcraft, where you put in X amount of hardcore effort on some quest-chain to get an instant BiS item. Well, this isn't that type of game. Welcome to RNGville, population everyone-who-likes-action-RPGs.

(Feel free to chime back with "No way, I hate World of Warcraft!", but it doesn't change the nature of the loot system that Diablo 1 & 2 established.)

Diablo 3 loot is vastly more random than Diablo 2 loot. For one thing, D2 uniques had no random properties, so were much more consistently good than D3 uniques. The only variation was attribute ranges, and even those were much tighter than ranges in D3. E.g. D3 oculus can roll 33-484 max damage, meaning a good roll is 10 times as good as a bad roll. For another, D2 had lots of ways for you to build exactly the item you needed, such as upgrading exceptional-grade to elite-grade items with the cube, or runewords, or other cube recipes.

Also, compare the D2 version of the uber-boss quest to the D3 version. In the D2 version, you were guaranteed a unique charm with guaranteed useful stats. In the D3 version, you have a random chance of getting part of what you need to craft the hellfire ring, and when you do craft it, you get a ring with mostly random attributes, which mostly is going to be worth little.

Let me try to estimate the chance of rolling a valuable hellfire ring, neglecting the useless proc and the 35% exp gain, since the usefulness of that depends a lot on who you ask. (Personally, I want to maximize my character's current power, not future power, so increased exp gain is only marginally useful.) Then the ring counts as having 2 useful properties (since 170-200 to a stat is basically like rolling 2 useful stat properties), and 4 random properties (which roll at ilvl 62, compared to ilvl 63 for all other rings which drop in inferno under MP in 1.05). Rings with 2-3 useful properties are worth about 5-10k on the auction house, i.e. worthless. On a hellfire ring, you really need at least 2 of your 4 random properties to roll affixes people actually look for on rings (i.e. damage, crit damage, crit chance, attack speed, all resist, vitality, or life on hit) or it's basically trash, and even then it's only comparable to a 1-2 million gold AH ring. With 36 possible properties, your chance of getting at least 2 of the 7 useful properties is 15%. The chance of getting at least 3 is 2%. And even if you roll the right random attributes, you still need good rolls so you don't wind up with something like +17 life on hit.

For someone who is already using a ring worth a few million gold and who doesn't want to trade power for increased exp gain (like me), there's a 98% chance any hellfire ring I craft will be worse than the rings I'm currently using. I'm already planning to buy new rings to upgrade once 1.05 goes live and improves the affixes on dropped rings, since my rings are really not that great.

From where I'm standing, the hellfire ring quest reward seems pretty lame, since it's far too random to be a good reward for how much time you have to put in to farm it (especially if you can't farm MP10, and have to farm ingredients in lower monster powers where there's only a chance of getting keys/ingredients to drop). Compared to D2 where the similar quest guaranteed a good drop, and it's no wonder that people are frustrated. Since it's BoP, unique equipped, and rolls affixes at ilvl 62 (compared to ilvl 63 for other inferno ring drops in 1.05) Blizzard could easily take out some of the randomness by replacing 1-2 of the random affixes with guaranteed useful affixes without significantly affecting the economy or giving the ring automatic-BiS status.
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im glad you think its useless and calling someone ignorant SayGa. You are paragon 34, you are leaving almost 200 intellect on the table by not being paragon 100. This ring is going to be so useless in gaining that extra 200 primary stat. It is not useless to you.

With bonus xp from increased MP, follower having a ring (35/5), yourself having a ring, your xp boost is over 200% easily with 5 stacks of NV. All of the sudden you're getting levels and those stats a lot faster.

Is it fantastic? no, but it is a means to reach an end for sure, you have a long way to go yourself
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Also, what has been happening with damage reflect and this ring doing 2 million damage? were people one-shotting themselves and had to unequip it against rares and champions with that affix?

It would be like a random instakill, man that would piss me off if I had a hardcore char and i died because of that 2 million damage fireball on a reflect mob.
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10/07/2012 09:11 AMPosted by Grimraven
I don't think Blizzard wanted to go that route


Well, maybe they should listen to what players like, because players are the ones playing the game not Blizzard.


If they listened to the people complaining in this thread, the game would be a wasteland of one-shot procs that people would enjoy for all of two hours before quitting and never coming back, because there would be zero reason to ever pick up any items and hence play the game.
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Let me try to estimate the chance of rolling a valuable hellfire ring, neglecting the useless proc and the 35% exp gain, since the usefulness of that depends a lot on who you ask. (Personally, I want to maximize my character's current power, not future power, so increased exp gain is only marginally useful.) Then the ring counts as having 2 useful properties (since 170-200 to a stat is basically like rolling 2 useful stat properties), and 4 random properties (which roll at ilvl 62, compared to ilvl 63 for all other rings which drop in inferno under MP in 1.05). Rings with 2-3 useful properties are worth about 5-10k on the auction house, i.e. worthless. On a hellfire ring, you really need at least 2 of your 4 random properties to roll affixes people actually look for on rings (i.e. damage, crit damage, crit chance, attack speed, all resist, vitality, or life on hit) or it's basically trash, and even then it's only comparable to a 1-2 million gold AH ring. With 36 possible properties, your chance of getting at least 2 of the 7 useful properties is 15%. The chance of getting at least 3 is 2%. And even if you roll the right random attributes, you still need good rolls so you don't wind up with something like +17 life on hit.


Patch notes were recently updated to reflect that newly-dropped legendaries will roll at the monster's level (i.e, all new legendaries with random properties will roll at ilvl 63), so essentially your entire analysis is badly flawed.

'I prefer a less random loot system!' is a perfectly valid complaint, but not one I personally agree with. Never liked how good uber bosses were in D2. That said, I am a little lost why people consider the Hellfire ring a bad thing when you compare it to the current state of the game. Getting a guaranteed legendary ring drop about every 4~ (assuming really low MP, much quicker if you can do high MP levels) hours that will always roll a very high amount of your main stat + 30% XP is really good. If you could sell it at current market value, that would be like being handed 100M every 4 hours.

Eliminating one property that needs to be rolled well (in this case, primary stat) makes the chances of finding a good item rise drastically. Is it guaranteed? Nope. Is it worth farming for? Absolutely. And personally, I'd rather have something to play for than get an item I'll never replace four hours after the patch installs.

And just because it needs to be emphasized again: while you're farming for the Hellfire ring over and over, you're getting just as many yellow drops as you normally get. It's a win-win situation.
Edited by Zeriel#1544 on 10/7/2012 10:18 AM PDT
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Edit: Read up some, invalidating most of my post.

Current opinion is the ring is very usefull for new players if you adjust your farmruns to have a chance to get it (seems it'l have 10% dropchance per MP, so 10% at MP1 to 100% at MP10), though on average you'll need over 1000 runs to get the ring on MP1 it'll be a huge upgrade if your gear is only good enough to run MP1.

For people in near BIS gear you can decide to do farmruns where the wardens are, for a slightly lower gain than if you'd farm an area more dense with elites but a very, very, very small chance to get a free BIS ring.
Edited by Fori#1154 on 10/7/2012 11:00 AM PDT
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It was actually a bug fix. The ring's proc damage was incorrectly scaling with a player's primary stats and weapon damage, which it was never designed to do. While we agree it was pretty sweet to see your characters do millions of damage in a single hit, no other Legendary procs scale this way -- and that's intended.

The Hellfire Ring will still be valuable, though. It may not be as valuable to players who have reached Paragon 100 now that it doesn't deal buttloads of damage when it procs, but it will still be competitive. Given the nature of how the ring is crafted, it has the opportunity to roll with some pretty incredible stats, so one of the rings you create may be BiS for you. Then again, it may not, but that's a good reason to keep farming (if that's your thing).

As for players who are leveling Paragon, we're okay with Hellfire being BiS. Yes, it will help you level up faster, but even if you stack it with Leoric's Signet and a ruby gem in your helm, reaching 100 will still take a very long time. And, as you've illustrated, the ring probably won't be a "must-have" forever, at least not for everyone depending on the stats you roll.

I.E. what this guy said:

The Hellfire Ring can still be BiS, now you just need to rolls to do so. You already have High main stat....you just need the 4 randoms to roll trifecta. It will now take a LOT of farming to get BIS hellfire ring.


If it was a "bug fix" as claimed you could have tested it before adding it to the database on the PTR, clearly your developers have no idea what they are doing if they're adding items to the game without testing before hand or you're just trying to lie about an intended nerf.
Edited by Xcalibur#1814 on 10/7/2012 11:46 AM PDT
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10/07/2012 11:47 AMPosted by spiderisland
Welcome to RNGville, population everyone-who-likes-action-RPGs.


D2 had far, far less randomization with its items, especially with uniques.

you know where it had more randomization? its maps.


I agree that D3 has way too little randomization of maps! It's actually one of the things I legitimately hate about the game.

I don't agree that the game needs a 5M damage proc on a basically free item, though.
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It was actually a bug fix. The ring's proc damage was incorrectly scaling with a player's primary stats and weapon damage, which it was never designed to do. While we agree it was pretty sweet to see your characters do millions of damage in a single hit, no other Legendary procs scale this way -- and that's intended.


Good because any time you have an item that is almost "mandatory" makes build diversity poor. Glad you nerf it. The nerfed version is still a top level ring.
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Take away dumb proc and add 10% crit or ias. Then it will be worth farming.
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Making the Hellfire a Hellfire charm would solve the issues of the ring being worth farming.

Replacing a very good ring ie crit chance / damage / ias will require lots of Hellfire ring farming. Since crafting a ring with random properties is no different then ID'ing a ring with random properties.

I don't need to see crazy proc damage..but I do understand that going through the Ubers should be rewarding like in D2.

Doing the D3 Ubers is like getting a rare ring in 1.05.. you ID or craft and hope for the best. Only difference is your going to spend a lot more time to get your chance with Hellfire and if it rolls good you can't sell it if you are poor.
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Posts: 8,296
A lot of people moaning in this thread about something that's on the PTR.

To many posters; be aware that the PTR is for TESTING (it's in the title). This means items on PTR haven't been released yet. So calling Blizzard out for not testing is quite fallacious.

Usefulness of the ring aside, the only thing I can think of is a 3 year old having his toy taken away with how people are crying about this. And I'm willing to bet within 2 weeks nearly everyone will have one, even the trolls in this thread.
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And I'm willing to bet within 2 weeks nearly everyone will have one, even the trolls in this thread.


so you will have it too then?
Edited by Grimraven#1853 on 10/7/2012 3:26 PM PDT
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Lylirra,

Is there any way to force Hellfire Ring to roll certain properties that fit more Offensive build or Defensive build?

Offensive Hellfire rolls:
1. Attack Speed
2. Critical Chance
3. Critical Damage
4. Damage against Elite

Defensive Hellfire rolls:
1. Blocking chance
2. All Resist
3. Take less damage from Elite
4. +Movement Speed

This way we don't end up with Hellfire rings that have really odd-ball rolls. I would create two Rings I guess. One is more for offense and one for defense.
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Posts: 8,296
10/07/2012 03:24 PMPosted by Grimraven
And I'm willing to bet within 2 weeks nearly everyone will have one, even the trolls in this thread.


so you will have it too then?
I wasn't trolling, but to answer, yes, it's a solid ring, even with nerfed proc damage. If I MANAGE to find a better yellow, I'll just move it to a follower.

Look at your rings - you mean to tell me that you wouldn't replace your +resist all / LoH ring if you got a Hellfire Ring with +2xx Str, +Resist all, and +LoH? It's an upgrade any which way you slice it.
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85 Gnome Death Knight
2355
Posts: 174
I wish dev do not totally nerf this ring proc, instead as people suggested, make it scale with MP level and do some damage that your weapon doesn't usually do. For only one reason: it is FUN that way.
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