Diablo® III

Request for response on state of Monks..

(Locked)

90 Dwarf Paladin
12265
Posts: 602
I've posted this before, but the problem isn't that the Monk class is specifically weak, it's a problem with the design of the endgame.

Regardless of class, there are basically two types of D3 character builds:

1. Very low DPS, "tank" builds used by undergeared characters so they can actually clear an Act in Inferno without bind zerging the elites. They stack as much survivability as possible and bore the mobs to death.

2. Very high DPS, "glass cannons" builds used by geared characters to maximize farming efficiency. They ignore survivability stats and abilities, and stack as much DPS as possible in order to kill !@#$ fastest to farm the most items. These builds survive via lifesteal/LoH and using their massive DPS to outheal the incoming damage via lifesteal.

Monks are bad at the first type of build because their heals don't scale. They get whittled down to nothing if they have no DPS.

Monks are also bad at the second type of build simply because Monks have the lowest DPS of all classes. This is mainly because crit/crit damage is on the same items that can roll high DEX, which makes it hard to get both tons of DEX and crit/crit damage.

Monks have a ton of other abilities to make up for their low DPS, but the main issue is that, regardless of what class you are, the only stats that matter for endgame Diablo 3 are DPS and movement speed. That's it. Nothing else matters. As I mentioned, endgame builds tend to be extreme glass cannon builds that stack nothing but pure DPS stats and life steal. They usually have something ridiculous like 20-30k HP and maybe 200 allres. If they stopped attacking, they would die in two seconds flat. However, it doesn't matter as the monsters can't outdamage the life steal that 500k DPS characters put out.

However, even having lots of LoH and LS is not important because a deficit in these stats can be made up for by simply having more DPS.

In addition, the glass cannon nature of endgame builds also destroys the viability of abilities that would otherwise be very powerful. For example, with 40% crit, two attacks per second, and 200 life per spirit spent, the Quickening rune alone is equivalent to 2400 LoH. 200 LSS is NOT hard to get right now because people don't respect the stat at all and price it as near-worthless. If you count the base spirit regen from the actual attack you're probably looking at 3600+ LoH equivalent, without having to buy a single piece of expensive LoH gear. So why isn't it used? Because the randomness kills you when you only have 20k HP, no shield, and no resistances. Miss a few crits and you're dead.

Monks have the lowest DPS, so they are the worst endgame class. It's really that simple. Their other advantages are irrelevant, because DPS is the only thing that matters. The lower DPS also means they need more LS/LoH to survive, which further decreases DPS as now money/stat budget must be spend on those stats that isn't being spent on DPS.

Simply buffing Monks doesn't fix the problem. Someone has to be last on DPS. That class will then be terrible.

This is also why Monks are an excellent Hardcore class. When you can't just mindlessly stack DPS regardless of what class you are, and have the EHP to ride out random fluctuations, Monks become extremely strong.
We feel that monks are in a decent place at the moment, and are a solid class in terms of power, but there are some things that we would like to address with the class. Namely: we would like to delve deeper into fulfilling the fantasy of what it means to be a monk.

Currently, monks spend a lot of their time applying an assortment of DPS buffs through the use of utility and survivability buttons. The bulk of monk damage comes from very passive gameplay, like healing yourself to get a damage buff, or applying Sweeping Winds and not looking at it again. We want to give players who enjoy the fantasy of being a blur of fists and feet a more active playstyle, and we’d love to play up some other fun mechanics as well.

For example, one possibility we’re considering is changing one of Dashing Strike’s runes to allow players to travel further with the skill so that it can serve as a mobility tool, but at the cost of imposing a cooldown. Another possibility we’re exploring is making Lashing Tail Kick feel more compelling by moving the knockback component to a rune, or changing a rune to remove the knockback and instead increase the damage more meaningfully. These types of changes are not minor tweaks, however. We want to make sure we take some time to make meaningful changes that improve the overall play experience for these sacred warriors.


have you played a monk? honestly this post appears like you never played the class. this kinda crap is why the game is such a mess right now. you don't listen to the customers. you want to add things that we don't want or care about. you ignore the things we do want and need. to say monk is in a good place is a joke at best. monks were the least broken class till you guys figured it would be fun to break them.

the monk dps is low but monks had the option to be a tank to counter it. now you want to remove our tanking without giving us a buff in dps to make up for it. you want to break skills to try and force us into new builds. the problem is we will still use the same builds because the other options are flat out worthless. we don't all use the same skills because they are overpowered. we all use the same skills because there is nothing else to use. if you want to make us use different builds then give us other passives and skills that are worth using.

anytime people find ways to play that work you guys want to come in and force players to play differently. please explain why? you guys seem to be out of touch. you try to force your likes and wants onto us. yet you fail to listen or understand what we want. who are you building this game for. if you want to build a game for yourselves then by all means keep doing it this way. if you are building a game for the customers then you need to put ego and pride aside and try listening to the customers. stop telling us how you want us to play. start listening to how we do play
Edited by drunkie#1130 on 10/3/2012 6:12 PM PDT
Lol I've already started to roll a Barb.

I love my Monk and have invested a lot of time in it, so it hurts to continually see the lack of improvement for the class.

There is no such thing as build diversity if you nerf skills / passives without buffing others ones that are completely useless at the moment. No one is going to say "hey this skill has always been useless, but maybe I'll use it any way so I can deal less DPS and die more?"

My Barb isn't even level 60 and already there are more skill and passive options I can play around with compared to my Monk with good gear. Granted everything changes at lvl 60, but the skills and passives are so much more interesting.
Two types of D3 builds? One tank and one DPS? You got to be joking. Try getting gear that has it all for once.
We feel that monks are in a decent place at the moment, and are a solid class in terms of power, but there are some things that we would like to address with the class. Namely: we would like to delve deeper into fulfilling the fantasy of what it means to be a monk.

Currently, monks spend a lot of their time applying an assortment of DPS buffs through the use of utility and survivability buttons. The bulk of monk damage comes from very passive gameplay, like healing yourself to get a damage buff, or applying Sweeping Winds and not looking at it again. We want to give players who enjoy the fantasy of being a blur of fists and feet a more active playstyle, and we’d love to play up some other fun mechanics as well.

For example, one possibility we’re considering is changing one of Dashing Strike’s runes to allow players to travel further with the skill so that it can serve as a mobility tool, but at the cost of imposing a cooldown. Another possibility we’re exploring is making Lashing Tail Kick feel more compelling by moving the knockback component to a rune, or changing a rune to remove the knockback and instead increase the damage more meaningfully. These types of changes are not minor tweaks, however. We want to make sure we take some time to make meaningful changes that improve the overall play experience for these sacred warriors.


http://i.imgur.com/bbIAY.jpg
that response was not what i was looking forward to reading at all regarding monks. Please address the current issues with weak passives and nerfing our only good passives etc.
Posts: 565
Blue,

My suggestion for you to appease the monk community:

Introduce a skill with cool down called: SAVE THE EARTH a.k.a. Salvage the Junks

Upon activation, the monk frantically throws out each and every piece of identified rare items in his bag, dealing massive damage to the monsters around him. The identified items will be destroyed, but with a 50% chance of being rerolled as a new unidentified same base item with new affixes. There is also a chance that it would rolled up from rare to legendary/ set items.

With this skill, outside my normal farming, at least I can make a few green trips to recycle my trashful of junks.
Posts: 118
We feel that monks are in a decent place at the moment, and are a solid class in terms of power, but there are some things that we would like to address with the class. Namely: we would like to delve deeper into fulfilling the fantasy of what it means to be a monk.

Currently, monks spend a lot of their time applying an assortment of DPS buffs through the use of utility and survivability buttons. The bulk of monk damage comes from very passive gameplay, like healing yourself to get a damage buff, or applying Sweeping Winds and not looking at it again. We want to give players who enjoy the fantasy of being a blur of fists and feet a more active playstyle, and we’d love to play up some other fun mechanics as well.

For example, one possibility we’re considering is changing one of Dashing Strike’s runes to allow players to travel further with the skill so that it can serve as a mobility tool, but at the cost of imposing a cooldown. Another possibility we’re exploring is making Lashing Tail Kick feel more compelling by moving the knockback component to a rune, or changing a rune to remove the knockback and instead increase the damage more meaningfully. These types of changes are not minor tweaks, however. We want to make sure we take some time to make meaningful changes that improve the overall play experience for these sacred warriors.


If this is what Blizzard thinks about monks, then I'm done with D3 and moving on to TL2 or GW2. I have been patient, hoping that Blizzard will listen to the community--in which there is a large outcry from monk players. I will wait for 1.05 and play for a couple weeks, but if there is no serous response from Blizzard on ways to drastically improve monk viability (ENOUGH WITH THE NERFS ALREADY WHEN THERE ARE NO IMPROVEMENT IN SKILLS), then there is no more reason to give my money to Blizzard. In any case, I will never purchase another game regardless of company where Jay Wilson is a developer.
10/03/2012 05:35 PMPosted by Vaeflare
We feel that monks are in a decent place at the moment, and are a solid class in terms of power


LOL, just laughable, and i don't even have a monk!
10/03/2012 05:59 PMPosted by Andrew
That may be the worst, most discouraging blue post I have read. Those are the changes you feel will really make the Monk class better? If it is, this game is doomed.

Didn't you get the memo? They only want barbs to have the most OP synergy and skills. They don't give a !@#$ about wizards and monks.


Like iv posted in a few threads

My wizard is nearly indestructible in 1.04 and 1.05PTR

this game is NOT diablo 2 Its a fairly new game still and will get patched numerous more times to try and compensate for all these people complaining about a class they obviously haven't PLAYED enough to learn..

Honest truth

Monks Suck- Slow useless Just basically fun to play WHICH IS WHAT BLUE WAS SAYING they are not a "farming" Char they are a lets go run over here and punch this 10000000 times till it dies.

Barb - Over powered Boring miss too many drops face rolling a3. Stripped barb shortly after 1.04

Witchdoctor- Cant really speak for but all the WD friends iv played with are Over powered and just kinda run around using bears and summons

DH- Fun Overpowered 1 hit wonders.. speaking from both ends.. 1 hit monsters/get 1 hit by monsters

Wizard is the Easiest class to Farm/Level/Play/Gear and honestly the new patch CUTS 5 mins from my a3 farming rout lol too easy... making a3 ML5 runs take 15-20 mins...

So people need to play and gear all classes before complaining that THEIR build on THEIR class has a problem.. iv played everything except WD and honestly people need to learn how to adapt to the changes not complain about them.. Go play a little more and learn something new rather then following the builds that 500000 other people use

Yes my "archon" wizard is another popular build, but people dont Gear/Skill them properly

Notice in patch notes how when they first released 1.05 notes they said that like 70 % of wizards are using prismatic...THAT'S why it got nerfed Its not needed i haven't used it since I got the game a month and a half ago..

Yes this is a RANT ISO 1.05 RELEASED enough listening to people complain about their crappy builds getting nerfed... LEARN NEW SKILLS AND MOVE ON. OR

Do community a favor
Quit
10/03/2012 06:11 PMPosted by sicfreak91
Two types of D3 builds? One tank and one DPS? You got to be joking. Try getting gear that has it all for once.


If you actually played a monk you would see that gear isn't always available for monks. Compare innas 0 resists to the IK set.
Yes, monks need Dashing Strike for mobility, and hell, rather than do something good, put a cooldown on it too. Also, Lashing Tail kick needs to have knockback taken off.

This is what will fix this class and put it on par with the other classes. Thanks again, Blizzard.

Edit: I am seriously discouraged/enraged by this post. A lot of good monks have posted a lot of good ideas, and not a damn one of them has been addressed.
Edited by Thirdarm#1740 on 10/3/2012 6:19 PM PDT
HAHAHA.

Vaeflare, that was the most lousy 3 paragraphs i've ever read from a blue.

I don't even play a monk but I've got friends that do and they are BY FAR the most useless class in this game.

If you seriously think monks are at a decent place right now, you are smoking a bad batch.

I don't even play a monk and I know there are a TON of issues with this pointless class

To all you monks out there, I suggest re-rolling ASAP. Blizzard is absolutely CLUELESS on how to design a class for an ARPG
I have an idea, make it to where we can use Dashing Strike and go the full distance without having a target. That would give us SOME advantage over a WW barb.. I mean, I made a monk to be a swift fist fighting warrior or speed..not a passive tank like I feel forced to be, Anyone else agree?


Didn't you get the memo? They only want barbs to have the most OP synergy and skills. They don't give a !@#$ about wizards and monks.


Like iv posted in a few threads

My wizard is nearly indestructible in 1.04 and 1.05PTR

this game is NOT diablo 2 Its a fairly new game still and will get patched numerous more times to try and compensate for all these people complaining about a class they obviously haven't PLAYED enough to learn..

Honest truth

Monks Suck- Slow useless Just basically fun to play WHICH IS WHAT BLUE WAS SAYING they are not a "farming" Char they are a lets go run over here and punch this 10000000 times till it dies.

Barb - Over powered Boring miss too many drops face rolling a3. Stripped barb shortly after 1.04

Witchdoctor- Cant really speak for but all the WD friends iv played with are Over powered and just kinda run around using bears and summons

DH- Fun Overpowered 1 hit wonders.. speaking from both ends.. 1 hit monsters/get 1 hit by monsters

Wizard is the Easiest class to Farm/Level/Play/Gear and honestly the new patch CUTS 5 mins from my a3 farming rout lol too easy... making a3 ML5 runs take 15-20 mins...

So people need to play and gear all classes before complaining that THEIR build on THEIR class has a problem.. iv played everything except WD and honestly people need to learn how to adapt to the changes not complain about them.. Go play a little more and learn something new rather then following the builds that 500000 other people use

Yes my "archon" wizard is another popular build, but people dont Gear/Skill them properly

Notice in patch notes how when they first released 1.05 notes they said that like 70 % of wizards are using prismatic...THAT'S why it got nerfed Its not needed i haven't used it since I got the game a month and a half ago..

Yes this is a RANT ISO 1.05 RELEASED enough listening to people complain about their crappy builds getting nerfed... LEARN NEW SKILLS AND MOVE ON. OR

Do community a favor
Quit


And you know how to gear archon properly? I'm not sure how you don't eat dirt on every single white trash mob harder than skeletons at that whopping 80k DPS on MP6+.

Stop telling people to be creative when you are using the most unimaginative archon build ever.

ON TOPIC: I suggest monks all re-roll. I'm pretty sure this post proves that Blizzard doesn't give a damn about the sorry state of your class. Or wizards for that matter- two useless blue posts in a row!
Edited by Herpaderpus#1120 on 10/3/2012 6:25 PM PDT
10/03/2012 05:35 PMPosted by Vaeflare
we would like to delve deeper into fulfilling the fantasy of what it means to be a monk.


Pretty disappointing. My fantasy of being a monk involves crits. How about a passive along the lines of barb's ruthless or even weapon master?

If you want to make monks more "active", increase spirit generation or provide regeneration, or decrease SW cost. SW is pretty much mandatory and a pretty big spirit drain. More spirit would make monks a more active class.

Monks have more active skills, most of them are just not great, but looking at e.g. changing dashing strike and lashing tail kick is only looking at half the problem. The problem isn't only that the active skills aren't great, its also how the other skills work - i.e. i'm using all my spirit on SW. Another example is that (TR aside as alot of people aren't finding it worthwhile) we can't move and attack at the same time like barbs, which means we take much more damage (imagine if you had to stand still while using whirlwind), so we need to use defensive passives and serenity which means all our active skills are dps focussed, and clearly BoH (which has a defensive element) and BF (which also has a defensive element) with SW is proving to be the best way to do that.

On a side point, what about equality between the different classes? A (say) 50m geared monk (or wd, wiz or dh) should be able to farm at roughly equal speed as a barb. Certainly not the case (as many people have pointed out in detail in various posts) in 1.0.4 - haven't played enough 1.0.5 to comment.
BLIZZARD should HIRE NEW STAFF
10/03/2012 05:35 PMPosted by Vaeflare
We want to give players who enjoy the fantasy of being a blur of fists and feet a more active playstyle, and we’d love to play up some other fun mechanics as well.


But that's the deal. We're not a blur of fists and feet. We're a use all your buffs and plug away with one or two primary attacks class.

What you say is right on, but nerfing things like STI (or other defenses) to try to promote using other skills is not going to accomplish that.
This topic is locked.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]