Diablo® III

Request for response on state of Monks..

(Locked)

While there are currently solid build options for monks both in 1.0.4 and 1.0.5, and while top-tiered monks using very specific builds can achieve respectable damage, the class isn’t yet where we want it to be. We’re definitely aware of your concerns, and we agree that additional improvements should be made, especially with regards to play style options, build diversity, and the performance and budget of monk resources. We feel that the monk has the most potential for improvement, and we have plans to make more changes to the monk after 1.0.5. The sort of changes we’d like to make are not simple number tweaks, though.

Ultimately, we want to make monks more engaging to play and really immerse players in what it would feel like to be a fast-punching martial arts master. We have a number of ideas on how to accomplish that for the future, and we want to provide improved passives, particularly passives that can be used for a more offensively-minded monk. I also mentioned two other possible changes we’re considering in[url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6794319883#7"] my previous post[/url], but those certainly aren’t the only changes we’re looking into. They address another area we feel could use improvement, and that’s giving players some additional, more active play style options.

We have more improvements planned and they’re still only in the discussion phase, so we’re not really in a place right now to talk about them in much detail, but we’re actively working towards solutions to address many key concerns.


I can understand where you are coming from. I appreciate the consideration to diversify, or further define the monk class. While I've been able to fortify my monk with about 90k dps unbuffed there are only about 4 passives that i can use. 2 are required usually, One /w Everything, and Seize the Initiative. Other passives that may be used are transcendence, resolve, guardian's path and Near Death Exp. (much less common).

As you already know the other passives are just wasted. I don't even remember the names. I'd like to see a few things added to further decorate the monk class from "meh" to something more attractive and unique.

Lastly, I love my monk don't get me wrong. He's a BAMF, but there's so much more that can be done with the class to bring our it's full potential. GL brainstorming.

EDIT: To the idiot trolls that just never stop yakin. Go to hell.
Edited by ParadigmDeez#1302 on 10/5/2012 3:19 AM PDT
Its funny how some of you complain

My monk is much MUCH stronger then my wizard friend who has 80k dps more....

Monk is the best class who can devide things....meaning having good dps + resist + armor + hp
In fact what other class, can stand next to a zillion monsters for 4 sec and dont lose a single hp?

By the way just w8 until pvp releases, monk has (up until now) the best pvp skills,
Serenity + UNNUMBEROUS amount of stun skills, near death, pacifism, all other classes just wish they had these pvp skills ;p

Havent played 105, im sure it will bring me more good than bad, since I smash the content as its now :)


dude you have nearly end game items and 80k dps and 860 vit:) and u use owe and seize imagine that blizz will nerf both... oh wait.......
10/04/2012 07:21 PMPosted by Vaeflare
We have a number of ideas on how to accomplish that for the future


i do not believe blizz gonna fix monks. i can not believe you guys fall for that. they could change something positively after 2 years maybe. my dear all, people are still playing with " 2 SKORNS"* for 5-6 months. 8 minutes ago: http://tinyurl.com/8ll4ya4 and they are aware of this for like ages.

we are investing our time into this game and "for the future" does not work for us monks. i could have watched an european independent movie and have a lilac wine instead of grinding with no goal.

in conclusion: hey blues, ask jay wilson if he likes lilac wine.
Edited by FORDPREFEKT#2216 on 10/5/2012 3:53 AM PDT
While there are currently solid build options for monks both in 1.0.4 and 1.0.5, and while top-tiered monks using very specific builds can achieve respectable damage, the class isn’t yet where we want it to be. We’re definitely aware of your concerns, and we agree that additional improvements should be made, especially with regards to play style options, build diversity, and the performance and budget of monk resources. We feel that the monk has the most potential for improvement, and we have plans to make more changes to the monk after 1.0.5. The sort of changes we’d like to make are not simple number tweaks, though.

Ultimately, we want to make monks more engaging to play and really immerse players in what it would feel like to be a fast-punching martial arts master. We have a number of ideas on how to accomplish that for the future, and we want to provide improved passives, particularly passives that can be used for a more offensively-minded monk. I also mentioned two other possible changes we’re considering in[url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6794319883#7"] my previous post[/url], but those certainly aren’t the only changes we’re looking into. They address another area we feel could use improvement, and that’s giving players some additional, more active play style options.

We have more improvements planned and they’re still only in the discussion phase, so we’re not really in a place right now to talk about them in much detail, but we’re actively working towards solutions to address many key concerns.


Just make sure that every single idea gets posted. Whether it's in a blog-entry or a regular post. Actively ask the players for their opinion. This way, not only we get a better class, you gain more trust and creditability. Trust and creditability that has been lost, since we feel you have absolutely no idea what you're doing.
While there are currently solid build options for monks both in 1.0.4 and 1.0.5, and while top-tiered monks using very specific builds can achieve respectable damage, the class isn’t yet where we want it to be. We’re definitely aware of your concerns, and we agree that additional improvements should be made, especially with regards to play style options, build diversity, and the performance and budget of monk resources. We feel that the monk has the most potential for improvement, and we have plans to make more changes to the monk after 1.0.5. The sort of changes we’d like to make are not simple number tweaks, though.

Ultimately, we want to make monks more engaging to play and really immerse players in what it would feel like to be a fast-punching martial arts master. We have a number of ideas on how to accomplish that for the future, and we want to provide improved passives, particularly passives that can be used for a more offensively-minded monk. I also mentioned two other possible changes we’re considering in[url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6794319883#7"] my previous post[/url], but those certainly aren’t the only changes we’re looking into. They address another area we feel could use improvement, and that’s giving players some additional, more active play style options.

We have more improvements planned and they’re still only in the discussion phase, so we’re not really in a place right now to talk about them in much detail, but we’re actively working towards solutions to address many key concerns.


Translation: We have no idea what we are doing and didn't think there were any problem until yesterday and might decide to look into it now, your not getting anything in 1.05 not even a few number tweaks that take 4 seconds to implement. Enjoy your nerf.



Oh, and what is with this "we can't just tweek numbers to ballance the class" do you read your own patch notes? what was the last game mechanic change you made that did not involve either "doubling it" or cutting it in half? WHAT IS GOING ON DOWN THERE? of course you can tweek numbers to buff weak skills. ugh all you ever do with your patches is change a variable in a formula and now all of a sudden you can't? who actually believes this load?


+1
Edited by Kegsta#2588 on 10/5/2012 4:48 AM PDT
I just hope that the designer can change the spirit regeneration of monk set. I can't understand why each set of monk only has 0.33 regeneration? Funny!! It's unreasonable.
10/04/2012 07:29 PMPosted by CyberGoat
Sorry Vael, but this couldn't be further from the truth. There is ONE build option for Monks in 1.04, and this will continue into 1.05 because there's not been any decent mechanic changes.


Lie, i use 3 builds for my monk and im progressing trought act 3 without problems.

-Combination monk (my actual build)
-Offensive monk (only 1 defensive skill)
-Mobility monk(Crazy, SO crazy, but i need specific gear for this one)

And know what? i don't use OWE in those builds...

im progressing trought act 3 without problems.


Theres a difference between progressing through act 3 and farming monster power 10. The people who are upset don't care about progressing, that is easy enough now everything is dirt cheap on the AH and inferno is Nerfed to Hell difficulty in 1.05.
Wut the fuc happend to this game... Ahhhh
First, I'd like to say thanks to Vaeflare for engaging in this thread. You had to know you'd get hammered for jumping in here, you did it anyway, and I respect and appreciate that. I'd rather (really!) have you here saying things I disagree with than sitting silently on the sidelines. Thanks for actually trying to respond to the community.

Beyond that, I agree that the changes Monks need are non-trivial, and I can accept that Blizz isn't ready to make those changes in 1.05. However, given that, I have to admit that I'm puzzled why they feel they need to change STI and Resolve before the broader changes are made. Yes, I get that they're being done as part of a broader defensive change across classes, but unlike other classes, Monks have few options to move to when STI and Resolve are weakened. I'd be all for changes (even the 1.05 changes) to those abilities *as part of a broader overhaul to Monks*. But I guess I don't feel like taking that much away from the class without doing any of the needed rebalancing Vaef is talking about leaves monks in a reasonable place for 1.05. Others have suggested softening the STI change to make it 75% of dex--that seems to me like a reasonable compromise for 1.05, leaving room to do more in 1.06 as appropriate.
Although there are many good suggestions how to improve specific skills to make them more viable, it is of most importance for Blizzard to understand the main flaws and problems in the monk mechanics first:

1) Dodge is broken in endgame and bad for survivability

2) Survivability through defensive skills which take up slots for "active/fun" skills

3) Spirit generation and spirit spenders are out of balance (0.33 spirit/s as a set bonus vs. high cost of dmg attacks like 50% of my spirit for WoL)

4) No offensive passives and most passives are weak (DPS increase only through gear)

5) Costly itemization due to OWE, which is required for survivability --> back to 1)

All this leads to a passive monk playstyle with one viable build, that is based around picking defensive skills for survivability that also provide damage buffs and klicking the left mouse button.
10/04/2012 07:21 PMPosted by Vaeflare
We feel that the monk has the most potential for improvement, and we have plans to make more changes to the monk after 1.0.5.


So...this is my cue to take the next few weeks to play Borderlands 2 and Resident Evil 6? Ok..all you other classes have fun. Tell 1.05 I said hello.
While there are currently solid build options for monks both in 1.0.4 and 1.0.5, and while top-tiered monks using very specific builds can achieve respectable damage, the class isn’t yet where we want it to be. We’re definitely aware of your concerns, and we agree that additional improvements should be made, especially with regards to play style options, build diversity, and the performance and budget of monk resources. We feel that the monk has the most potential for improvement, and we have plans to make more changes to the monk after 1.0.5. The sort of changes we’d like to make are not simple number tweaks, though.

Ultimately, we want to make monks more engaging to play and really immerse players in what it would feel like to be a fast-punching martial arts master. We have a number of ideas on how to accomplish that for the future, and we want to provide improved passives, particularly passives that can be used for a more offensively-minded monk. I also mentioned two other possible changes we’re considering in[url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6794319883#7"] my previous post[/url], but those certainly aren’t the only changes we’re looking into. They address another area we feel could use improvement, and that’s giving players some additional, more active play style options.

We have more improvements planned and they’re still only in the discussion phase, so we’re not really in a place right now to talk about them in much detail, but we’re actively working towards solutions to address many key concerns.


Thats what i wanted to hear.....loading Monk back up since some day he will be cool
Largadon


10/04/2012 07:06 PMPosted by Metal
lol inspect me... I'M FAR FROM MEDIOCRE.

Exactly, you have godly gear and only dish out a very pedestrian 120k dps. The amount of gold you've invested in your gear on any other classes would be 180k dps+


lmao. i beat act2 inferno with 30 some odd k dps, its a sham people have so little skills they have to buy gear to get 140k dps just to play a game, then talk smak to people that can do the same thing with a quarter of there gear. Get some skills and quit cryin.
I must say, even though we've gone through two whole patches without any real benefits coming to us once relatively peaceful monks, it is nice that there are actual meetings and talks going on to help our class.

Hopefully something can be done about our resource generation. Even a natural passive of 1/second would be nice. Some builds I can't even possibly make work well because I just don't have the spirit to run it. It forces some very spirit generation choices.
90 Blood Elf Monk
13170
I dunno what you guys are complaining about, Monks are pretty solid tanks/DPS and downright overpowered raid healers right now.
Glad you made a new post mr.blue.

However, instead of nerfing us further into the ground with 105, which seems to be the current plan, then to rebalance sometime in the future(who knows how long will take, 2 months from now). How about not nerfing us as hard as the current 105 patch notes are suggesting?

Monk will still be sub par, but at least it wont be unplayable compared to the other classes.
Largadon


10/04/2012 07:06 PMPosted by Metal
lol inspect me... I'M FAR FROM MEDIOCRE.

Exactly, you have godly gear and only dish out a very pedestrian 120k dps. The amount of gold you've invested in your gear on any other classes would be 180k dps+


lmao. i beat act2 inferno with 30 some odd k dps, its a sham people have so little skills they have to buy gear to get 140k dps just to play a game, then talk smak to people that can do the same thing with a quarter of there gear. Get some skills and quit cryin.


Simply amazing, its not that monk cannot beat the inferno acts, its that we are lacking significantly compared to the other classes. Yes, i beat inferno act 4 with below 30k dps. That does not mean that it is effective at all. If you wanna play a subpar monk, then by all means, that is your wish. Doubt the rest of us agree.
Just to be clear because many people keep answering that they farm act 3 without problems.

Everyone and their mother farm act 3 without problems, blizzard made sure of it by nerfing Inferno many times.

The problem with monks is that they're by far the slowest in terms of farming efficiency. Barbs clear act 3 really fast (i guess 30 mins) with a medium level equip, now find me a single monk that can do the same, even with the best possible equip around.

I think I have a decent Monk, nice resistance, decent dps, I can easily run MP5 (Of course I'm forced to use keen eye for the exra armor now that they nerfed the passive), but it takes me ages to clear act 3. I just wish monks were a little more efficient.
Edited by Kaoru#1251 on 10/5/2012 5:25 AM PDT
i really can't understand ppl who complain about STI nerf.. u take less dmg overall in patch 1.05 than you do now
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