Diablo® III

Request for response on state of Monks..

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10/05/2012 11:51 AMPosted by jcdommo
My main question to the devs is why did they make dex so much worse at mitigating damage than str or int, then limit/nerf our ability to get them. If it wasn't for OWE being so powerful, monks would be utter garbage instead of just mediocre.


This.
They could start by making armor = 50% of dex and then make the passive STI add the other 50%. Want build diversity? There's a start, it took me a total of 20 seconds to come up with that.
the main issue of monks are survivalbility , compare to barb, monk's heal are way too weak, healing 6k, and has a cd, freaking white monsters hit 24k with mp on. how do you expect monks to survive with all the nerfs to their defensive skill? barbs heals to full health like nothing. monk is close range and relays on defense to be able to stand in front of enemies toe to toe. you are not encouraging more variety of builds. you are forcing everyone to go ww barb and quit all classes, because they just all suck after 1.05.
10/05/2012 11:53 AMPosted by Lylirra
Tell us kindly the good reason in nerfing the defense passives when 90% of monk's passives


Just so that I know that we're on the same page, have you had the opportunity to read this developer journal, yet? http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/7155884/ (It was written a few weeks ago, so it may have been missed.)

It goes pretty in depth into why we're making changes to defensive skills, and breaks down each change class-by-class.


Most of us do Lyr. The problem right now is that with this nerf a lot of monks are seeing themselves gimped in higher Mlvls.
10/05/2012 11:58 AMPosted by Daoistheway
the main issue of monks are survivalbility , compare to barb, monk's heal are way too weak, healing 6k, and has a cd, freaking white monsters hit 24k with mp on. how do you expect monks to survive with all the nerfs to their defensive skill? barbs heals to full health like nothing. monk is close range and relays on defense to be able to stand in front of enemies toe to toe. you are not encouraging more variety of builds. you are forcing everyone to go ww barb and quit all classes, because they just all suck after 1.05.


monk can "heal to full just like nothing" if it uses lifesteal
As someone who has almost exclusively played a monk, I find some of these changes alarming. Dropping STI back to 50% is too big a jump for those of us who rely on DEX for armor since there is not a decent amount of armor on monk gear to start with.

Removing the knockback from Lashing Tail Kick is a VERY bad idea. The whole point of that ability is the knockback for when you absolutely must get out of a pack of mobs.

Take for instance the snakes in the oasis, the ones that can make themselves invisible. Now, make them a champion pack with vortex and fire affixes, or jailer and plagued and some other horrible combination. Half the time you can't even hit them because you can't see them until they vortex you into their arcane beams and the only way out is to knock them back and run.

If you take away the knockback, then monks are effectively dead.

Personally, I like the get in their face and pummel them to death. When I want to play ranged, I work on leveling my DH (another story for another time). But monks need mobility and nerfing their resistances by dropping the armor bonus means they will need more mobility not less.

I have noticed, that as you progress through inferno, that resistance plays a larger role in survivability than having a large health pool. Even dropping some DPS in favor of damage mitigation, which comes from armor and resist, is not necessarily a bad thing. If you take away the monk's armor bonus them we will all have to re-gear because our gear typically is not stacked for high armor values.

On another but slightly related note, getting gear drops of level 51, 52, 53 in inferno is definitely not cool. It's trash not even worth keeping. You can't smash it for anything worthwhile. No one will buy it on the AH. Even the vendor prices are not that great.

I'll reserve final judgment on the monk until the patch comes out, but if my survivability is less after the patch, I just might go back to playing WoW.
I thought of some nice way to make lashing tail kick, or exploding palm good. Give one of them, either one, both would do well with it, fully elemental nova runes. Example: Fire nova rune: Semi high damage with AoE burn effect, Lightning nova: Semi high damage with blinding effect. If we got something like this, I would totally use it.
10/05/2012 11:53 AMPosted by Lylirra
Tell us kindly the good reason in nerfing the defense passives when 90% of monk's passives


Just so that I know that we're on the same page, have you had the opportunity to read this developer journal, yet? http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/7155884/ (It was written a few weeks ago, so it may have been missed.)

It goes pretty in depth into why we're making changes to defensive skills, and breaks down each change class-by-class.


That was the developer's opinion!!! what about our opinions? did you gave us this ptr just to report bugs? we are giving you feedbacks about how utterly wrong the defense nerfs are... Tell me a monk player that never used STI and resolve in MP10??
Posts: 26
In my opinion, the monk is is very underpowered, at least damage wise.
Sure they can take alot of damage, but they dnt get to a high enough DPS to do more
10/05/2012 11:53 AMPosted by Lylirra
t so that I know that we're on the same page, have you had the opportunity to read this developer journal, yet? http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/7155884/ (It was written a



but it should be a lot easier to pick some other passives without feeling like you’re going to blow up at the first Elite pack you encounter.


Good to see some feedback is finally coming this quote is from the developers journal, however all the other passives are so bad they aren't worth picking even over these nerfed ones, on higher monster power this will be all we can take.
Also on the higher monster power we will probably be playing with barbs most games, so we are also eating the Nerf to Warcry: Impunity in group play. In multiplayer my monk will be losing 1335 armour (STI), 30% resistance(warcry) and another 267 AC (Warcry - STI)

Another major concern is that we will all pick the same 3 passives again on live, in a month blizzard will look at the data and think, oh crap everyone is still picking STI OWE and resolve, better half them again so they pick something else.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6572270425
This is my thread on how to fix monks, most changes would take under 5 minutes to implement, and about an hour of play testing to make sure they work, pick one for 1.05 and we might be happy for a while.

When you can't implement simple tweaks to numbers that have 0 chance of breaking the game even as a test on the PTR it is very disheartening.
Edited by Kegsta#2588 on 10/5/2012 12:28 PM PDT
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I think it's great that you blues are responding to the monk thread. It would be really nice, however, for you to explain why you are concerned with preserving monk gear invenstments by not touching OWE but you are completely fine with rendering APOC and LoH wizard gear almost worthless.
monks need a way to innately increase their armor through dodge or dex otherwise STI no matter how nerfed will always be mandatory at high MP levels.

good luck being melee in MP8+ with 3000armor because you didnt take STI.

That is people's issue currently with the PTR you guys didnt change the fact that STI is mandatory you just nerfed it so it makes us weaker at high MP levels.
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We asked for a blue to update us, we got it. We now know that the other classes are taking priority first, but they will get to us eventually. While I think it's a bit of a stretch to say things like "monks are decent" and "have plenty of options in terms of ... build diversity", I have to hold onto hope that Blizzard will actually identify the problems that every devoted player on these forums has already laid out (instead of continually tweaking lashing tail strike). Let me reiterate - buffing weaker "options" is NOT the answer to helping the monk have more viable play styles.

The changes required for the class will take [plenty of] time.

I appreciate the update, thanks.
OWE nerf inc, at least they warned us beforehand
This makes me with no directions on what i should do with my gear, i guess i will just sell everything and farm MP 0 naked, while waiting for next patch changes.
Edited by Badnews#2133 on 10/5/2012 12:18 PM PDT
Ohh I get it, you mean nerfing OWE, right?


What Wyatt said previously still holds true:

In terms of passives, it's pretty clear at this point that One With Everything is considered a mandatory passive for all monks. While "mandatory" passives aren't great, making any major change would do more harm than good, particularly when a) incoming damage is so high and b) monks need the extra durability in order to survive. Additionally, as a result of this passive, monks are more heavily tied to their current gear, so making changes to One With Everything would have very noticeable negative repercussions to the gear monks have invested in.

While we'd prefer that there wasn't an "absolutely mandatory" passive, we're going to let this one ride for now. If we do try to make changes we'll ideally do it in a way that doesn't invalidate the passive, doesn't hurt monk survivability, and doesn't undermine the gear people are currently wearing.

We don't have any changes planned for OWE right now. That may change, but if it does, we'd still want our approach to be as outlined above.


So, are you saying the devs basically are incompetent to come up with a solution given so much time since the PTR's live? If not, then what is on the top of their priority list? Having fun toying their customers while beating around the bush?
There are two separate problems here.

1. Monks lack build diversity.
This is the one you and Vaeflare have addressed, and I think you're on the right track so far (apart from Seize the Initiative, of course; that was a misstep). Increasing Monk build diversity will take a lot of design and development work, and I don't mind waiting for new and interesting abilities.

2. Monks aren't strong enough for Monster Power.
This is the one I'm worried about, but unlike the diversity problem, it can indeed be solved with number tweaks. What if Dexterity's contribution to Dodge diminished more slowly? Or if Combination Strike added 48 percent damage per spirit generator used?

The power problem is much more time-sensitive than the diversity problem, but it sounds like it's receiving less design attention. It's hard to read anything into your and Vaeflare's posts other than "Avoid playing a Monk until 1.06."

And, well, I have. I've moved on to other games. And 1.06 will have to be damn impressive to make me come back.


[quote="67932991701"]Ohh I get it, you mean nerfing OWE, right?


What Wyatt said previously still holds true:

    In terms of passives, it's pretty clear at this point that One With Everything is considered a mandatory passive for all monks. While "mandatory" passives aren't great, making any major change would do more harm than good, particularly when a) incoming damage is so high and b) monks need the extra durability in order to survive. Additionally, as a result of this passive, monks are more heavily tied to their current gear, so making changes to One With Everything would have very noticeable negative repercussions to the gear monks have invested in.

    While we'd prefer that there wasn't an "absolutely mandatory" passive, we're going to let this one ride for now. If we do try to make changes we'll ideally do it in a way that doesn't invalidate the passive, doesn't hurt monk survivability, and doesn't undermine the gear people are currently wearing.


We don't have any changes planned for OWE right now. That may change, but if it does, we'd still want our approach to be as outlined above.


Bad news for you monk guys. OWE will be cut in half next patch!
wow.. this is pretty lame.. ppl bash out on a mod for trying to communicate..
where the hell you ppl keep getting the idea that OWE is gonna be nerfed? Yes they say they want to change it in the future.. but honestly if you can't improve your gears in months you are prone to fail no matter what skills you use.

Also the "nerf" to 2 of the monks passives are pretty insegnificant due to the fact that moster dmg has been nerfed way more. Also Resolve.. i can't see anyone crying about this.. half the mobs are either ranged or "magic" dmg and are not affected by it at all (ranged deal more dmg btw).

Half the "suggestions" here lead to Monk being able to tank like a barb and haveing a DPS like a DH.. This is for sure not smth the devs want to do.

Please do realize that to fix monks it takes more than 1 patch. We got no skills where you just change a number and it works perfect for a new build. We need compleat redesign of half our skills/runes that are FLAT ammounts and do not scale up with our DPS/HP.
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