Diablo® III

Request for response on state of Monks..

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I wanna understand what led the team to assume the monk problems are lower priority than the rest of the classes.

Simply go on and look up "diablo 3 cow level" on youtube.

Now my gear is better than that guys, not a hole lot better but better nonetheless. I can't even play around with some mob packs in mp10 imagine pulling a whole map an lulzing my way trough it. And this is 1.05 post sprint nerf!


Bad news for you monk guys. OWE will be cut in half next patch!


cos of ppl like you monk community is decreasing.. bashing monk at every chance.. calling nerf on this nerfo on that while it was said a few posts before there will be no nerfo on it in the near future...

If u so scared of the nerf.. dun use it? there's plenty of ppl who are pass using OWE cos you really only need 500-650 res to tank everything
10/05/2012 11:58 AMPosted by Ravlaor


Just so that I know that we're on the same page, have you had the opportunity to read this developer journal, yet? http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/7155884/ (It was written a few weeks ago, so it may have been missed.)

It goes pretty in depth into why we're making changes to defensive skills, and breaks down each change class-by-class.


Most of us do Lyr. The problem right now is that with this nerf a lot of monks are seeing themselves gimped in higher Mlvls.


Yup!!!! This needs to be answered
Just so that I know that we're on the same page, have you had the opportunity to read this developer journal, yet? http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/7155884/ (It was written a few weeks ago, so it may have been missed.)


This is a fair question, but I think most of us *have* read that. However, parts of the rationale in that post don't ring true for monks. Specifically, this is the stated rationale for the STI change:

The reduction to Resolve and Seize the Initiative should mean if you want to be a “super-tanky monk” you can still take all three defensive skills, but it should be a lot easier to pick some other passives without feeling like you’re going to blow up at the first Elite pack you encounter.


The problem with this, IMO, is two-fold. First and most importantly, this only works if there are other viable passives to switch *to*. It doesn't take much forum-surfing to see that many people believe that there are not. I believe that these changes would work much better for monks in particular as part of a broader change that added interesting / useful options beyond what we have now. Second, I think the original post understates the reduction in defense substantially. STI + Resolve + Enchantress = quite a large drop. Remember that the original post makes no mention of the Enchantress nerf. And while that's not specific to monks, I think its greatest impact is on melee classes. Taken together, this is a very large reduction in defense--for non-trivial MP levels, it certainly doesn't feel like a "buff".

TLDR: original post, and STI change, make sense if and only if there are other viable passives.
In my opinion, monks are greate, I use crapy stuff and i have a lot of fun on inferno :)
10/05/2012 11:13 AMPosted by Lylirra
"absolutely mandatory"


I love how Blizzard interpret this word. They prefer nerfs to make some skills not "absolutely mandatory" rather than boost others. And then re-gear become "absolutely mandatory". GG Blizzard.
Lmfao.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see someone back tracking after an unprecedented backlash from the community.

Sorry, but reading both posts, you have just shown how out of touch with the player base and how often you speak to the devs.

They read this and you were informed to change (slightly lol) what was put.

In future, before you post on matters like this, try engaging brain and thinking, then engage in conversation with devs in a meeting, then try reading the forums (which you lot claim you do) about the subject you are replying to.

Sorry but I am appalled by the way this has been handled.

Common sense isn't so common after all!

And no I don't expect a reply to this, because I know there must be some parts of your job you might do the right thing by.

Preferred Bashiok, at least he didn't mince his words!
Edited by Elgarr#1762 on 10/5/2012 1:08 PM PDT
While a lot of emotions and negativity had erupted since this thread began, I followed this thread closely simply because I play the monk exclusively ever since 1.04..

I had my concerns at first, all of which had already been mentioned to death in this thread. However, I would like to sincerely thank the blues for taking the effort to address some of these concerns. I would like to add that I am personally looking forward (with bated breath) to see how you could improve the gameplay for the monk in future patches.

Thanks once again for the update blues.
wow.. this is pretty lame.. ppl bash out on a mod for trying to communicate..
where the hell you ppl keep getting the idea that OWE is gonna be nerfed? Yes they say they want to change it in the future.. but honestly if you can't improve your gears in months you are prone to fail no matter what skills you use.

Also the "nerf" to 2 of the monks passives are pretty insegnificant due to the fact that moster dmg has been nerfed way more. Also Resolve.. i can't see anyone crying about this.. half the mobs are either ranged or "magic" dmg and are not affected by it at all (ranged deal more dmg btw).

Half the "suggestions" here lead to Monk being able to tank like a barb and haveing a DPS like a DH.. This is for sure not smth the devs want to do.

Please do realize that to fix monks it takes more than 1 patch. We got no skills where you just change a number and it works perfect for a new build. We need compleat redesign of half our skills/runes that are FLAT ammounts and do not scale up with our DPS/HP.


While I'll agree bashing on mods is rude and pointless there are simple changes they could make in a day to greatly improve monks for 1.05. 1. Make sweeping wind process something. That alone would improve monk survivability since LOH is much more readily available on items then life steal. 2. Making Guiding Light work in single player. This will open up some diversity right away allowing players to possibility dump blazing wrath or conviction for something else. Both these changes seem like "no brainers" to me and would be an easy way to start ungimping monks. The clock is ticking Blizz. It takes 30 hours to get a barb from 0-60. People need to see some positive steps now and not in a month or two.
10/05/2012 11:36 AMPosted by Lylirra
I'm just saying we don't have any specific changes for OWE at the moment.


First of all, thank you so much for taking the time to hear what players are saying on the forum. It's way better when we know that our opinions on the issue will matter.

I consider myself a pretty good monk player, and I say you shouldn't even think about nerfing OWE. Why? Well...

Instead of fighting a consequence, why wouldn't you fight the cause of the problem?

We all know very well monks use the same 3 passives. Believe it or not, we don't do it because we are dumb or because we saw some tutorial online. We do it because the other passives are a total failure when it comes to inferno levels. And this is a very interesting fact:

Normal, nightmare and hell are the places where I've seen and used lots of build diversity. This doesn't happen in inferno, the level where any player might end up, eventually. And I'm not just talking about passives.

We use this build (same one I'm using right now, if you look at my profile) because we absolutelly need the mobility, the armor, the resists, everything. Other strategies fail. I could think about building my hero to have a high attack speed, a high movement speed, high health, life regen, more DPS... and I've tried, and it failed.

There isn't another strategy in which you can focus that actually works (unless, of course, you find/buy godly gear, but that's the exception and Blizzard must not build a game thinking about 0,1% of the players).

So, what is the cause?

Simple: the other skills are too weak.

Perhaps the most polarizing is the Fleet Footed, so let's take this as an example. +10% movement speed. It's kinda hard to present an argument for something this obvious, don't you think? I mean, honestly, what would you prefer? This, or equalizing your resists?

No? Well, maybe this +10% mov speed for the +5% crit chance and +50% crit dmg that the barbarians have? I think it would be a fair exchange, after all, barbarians love movement speed.

With that in mind, what's best?
a) Destroy the only good skill
b) Improve the crappy ones

PS: oh, and since I got your attention, I would like to use this opportunity to say that I still think the loot sucks, and that whoever thought of making fist weapons that give +INT is insane and should get treatment in the same institution where is the person who made Magda be able to steal a whole person, but not metal fragments, when both are right next to her.
I agree< build more diversity by buffing unused skills not de-buffing the most used skills!
While I'll agree bashing on mods is rude and pointless there are simple changes they could make in a day to greatly improve monks for 1.05. 1. Make sweeping wind process something. That alone would improve monk survivability since LOH is much more readily available on items then life steal. 2. Making Guiding Light work in single player. This will open up some diversity right away allowing players to possibility dump blazing wrath or conviction for something else. Both these changes seem like "no brainers" to me and would be an easy way to start ungimping monks. The clock is ticking Blizz. It takes 30 hours to get a barb from 0-60. People need to see some positive steps now and not in a month or two.

Lvl 60 enchantress, run from 1 with another lvl 1. grind no rush, 32 hrs ez 2 do with any class.
Edited by INTENT#1386 on 10/5/2012 1:17 PM PDT
    While we'd prefer that there wasn't an "absolutely mandatory" passive, we're going to let this one ride for now. If we do try to make changes we'll ideally do it in a way that doesn't invalidate the passive, doesn't hurt monk survivability, and doesn't undermine the gear people are currently wearing.


Making OWE an inherent skill,not needing a skill or passive slot would be an easy fix,no?it IS basically mandatory,unless you're doing something drastic about our need for resists that we haven't heard about..

Unless there are other MAJOR changes to our defensive skills in the *immediate* future we're still getting nerfed with STI and enchantress's armor buff reduction.

And (cough) we heard the same thing from Wyatt before about the WW/Nado build,won't be touched for now,but a month(?) later guess what... Actions speak louder than words,we're asking for NO NERFS,and still getting no response on that issue,regardless of whats planned in the indeterminate future.
Personally i dont think your supposed to be able to just walk into the next patch and farm it on mp10 unless your gear is already really good. Ive been farming mp10 so if you really having a hard time on monk just copy my gear and spec but other than that sorry my expereinces are funner and more rewarding so far than all of yours...
monks can be compared to barbs? lmao...we used to be ok fighting monks, but this patch is gonna turn us into temple monks, prayin everyday...
offensive passives? haha...u just want us to use offensive passives by nerfing our defensive passives while defensive passives are quite necessary...they probably dunno what they are talkin about...
when im doing dual wielding, my armor used to be bout 8300s (with enchantress), after 1.0.5, it will drop to about 6500s...(44k dps buffed)
when im using a shield, my armor is about 10400s (with enchantress), after the future patch, it will drop to bout 8500...(33k dps buffed)
man, i was kinda able to solo act 4 inferno even with the shield on (died like 4 5 times), but after this coming patch, i guess i dun even hve to think bout offensive passives, and defensive passives are MUSTer than in the past...
guess im done for now, before they actually do something to bring our monks back, to make monks good enough to be about 70% performance of the barbs...assume this coming patch nerf the monks to be bout 20% performance/worthability of the barbs...
Your first post saying monks are SOLID CLASS in terms of power....


Correct, but that's only one variable when it comes to class balance. In terms of power, we feel that monks are doing pretty well. But in terms of build and play style diversity, resource management and budgeting, and offensive passives, we feel that there's still room for improvement. There's a lot that works for monks right now, but there are definitely areas that could be better.

Oh, and what is with this "we can't just tweek numbers to ballance the class" do you read your own patch notes? what was the last game mechanic change you made that did not involve either "doubling it" or cutting it in half? WHAT IS GOING ON DOWN THERE? of course you can tweek numbers to buff weak skills. ugh all you ever do with your patches is change a variable in a formula and now all of a sudden you can't? who actually believes this load?


I think you may have misunderstood. The kinds of changes we're currently considering for monks (the changes we feel would best benefit the class) go beyond simply upping one number or lowering another. The examples Vaeflare provided for Dashing Strike and Lashing Tail Kick fall into this category. Adjusting numbers is fairly easy to do, but redesigning how a skill or skill rune works is much more complex. While we still may tweak some skill values in the future, right now we're looking at changes that require a little more development time.

As for "what was the last mechanic change you made that did not involve either 'doubling it' or cutting it in half"? From 1.0.5, the changes to Companion and Sentry are great examples, and we're redesigning some runes this patch too. From 1.0.4, witch doctor pet improvements were pretty notable. We also changed the format for how damage over time is dealt for a number of skills, as well.

Ohh I get it, you mean nerfing OWE, right?


What Wyatt said previously still holds true:

    In terms of passives, it's pretty clear at this point that One With Everything is considered a mandatory passive for all monks. While "mandatory" passives aren't great, making any major change would do more harm than good, particularly when a) incoming damage is so high and b) monks need the extra durability in order to survive. Additionally, as a result of this passive, monks are more heavily tied to their current gear, so making changes to One With Everything would have very noticeable negative repercussions to the gear monks have invested in.

    While we'd prefer that there wasn't an "absolutely mandatory" passive, we're going to let this one ride for now. If we do try to make changes we'll ideally do it in a way that doesn't invalidate the passive, doesn't hurt monk survivability, and doesn't undermine the gear people are currently wearing.


We don't have any changes planned for OWE right now. That may change, but if it does, we'd still want our approach to be as outlined above.


aww this is just too cute; this is just like little kid after pissed off the whole community now attemping very hard to do damage control; LOL how many time you see 3,4 blue posts in the same topic...just too cute
Edited by Tuinebap#1973 on 10/5/2012 1:25 PM PDT
Just bring back Dave Brevick.
10/05/2012 01:21 PMPosted by Incorporated
Personally i dont think your supposed to be able to just walk into the next patch and farm it on mp10 unless your gear is already really good. Ive been farming mp10 so if you really having a hard time on monk just copy my gear and spec but other than that sorry my expereinces are funner and more rewarding so far than all of yours...


Believe me if I could copy your gear I would,got a spare ,what?,500+ Million I can have?
There are many others with far superior stats complaining,what about the *average* geared monk? Sorry but I don't have 500+ million to throw at a Monk,with 700+ hours,still not found a set piece of any sort,or anything worth over a couple hundred k in the AH..yeah RNG..hmph..

Glad your experiances are "Funner",enjoy and stop trolling...
i tought i'll try run 1.04 without STI.. 3.1k def 52% dodge, 66k DPS 700LoH, 588 res and i'm doing just as well (if not better) than when i had STI passive.. So please.. the nerf on STI and Resolve is really not that bad. Also if you die in Act4 with 10k+ armor.. please reconsider what you are doing.. cos how on earth do you even get hurt?
10/05/2012 01:21 PMPosted by Incorporated
Personally i dont think your supposed to be able to just walk into the next patch and farm it on mp10 unless your gear is already really good. Ive been farming mp10 so if you really having a hard time on monk just copy my gear and spec but other than that sorry my expereinces are funner and more rewarding so far than all of yours...


just wondering.. doesn't it just take too long to kill on MP10? i mean i can tank the mobs.. but it just takes too long making it not worth the effort.. rather run MP5-7
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