Diablo® III

Request for response on state of Monks..

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- Diablo III (Monk)
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10/05/2012 11:27 AMPosted by Lylirra
When you guys look into build diversity, it'd be nice if you took some of these proposed changes to our combination strikes into consideration: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6607333164?page=1


I'll take a look. :)

(And, no, this doesn't mean I haven't seen all the other threads players have posted. This forum has kept me very busy with all the feedback you've provided. Keep it up!)


Oh my god ... you are looking at my post.

This thread went from "doomsday / death knoll" for monks to "I can see the light at the end of the tunnel and it is beautiful" for me in the span of a day.

Thank you Blues SO much for the further communication it has helped me have a reason to keep playing my monk!

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

-Druin, the happy monk
10/05/2012 01:29 PMPosted by WytMinority4
Just bring back Dave Brevick.


Make a new game as a spin-off from D2 and call it Diablo II: Reborn.
But I doubt that would ever happen.
While there are currently solid build options for monks both in 1.0.4 and 1.0.5, and while top-tiered monks using very specific builds can achieve respectable damage, the class isn’t yet where we want it to be. We’re definitely aware of your concerns, and we agree that additional improvements should be made, especially with regards to play style options, build diversity, and the performance and budget of monk resources. We feel that the monk has the most potential for improvement, and we have plans to make more changes to the monk after 1.0.5. The sort of changes we’d like to make are not simple number tweaks, though.

Ultimately, we want to make monks more engaging to play and really immerse players in what it would feel like to be a fast-punching martial arts master. We have a number of ideas on how to accomplish that for the future, and we want to provide improved passives, particularly passives that can be used for a more offensively-minded monk. I also mentioned two other possible changes we’re considering in[url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6794319883#7"] my previous post[/url], but those certainly aren’t the only changes we’re looking into. They address another area we feel could use improvement, and that’s giving players some additional, more active play style options.

We have more improvements planned and they’re still only in the discussion phase, so we’re not really in a place right now to talk about them in much detail, but we’re actively working towards solutions to address many key concerns.


Use ur brain... How could u nerf our passives at this time? First u need to give us something better to use than u can nerf it. If u nerf it right now what we should do? Whait til 1.06? Make another class? Maybe a barb... Make no sense nerf our passives now since we have no choice we gonna still using it... But ungonna make something that is bad worst....
OWE:
Adds X% of your highest elemental resistance to the other elemental resistances.
X between 10 and 30% maybe.


Mwahahaha.

They can nerf OWE and buff passive skills that increase dps, dodge chance and spirit. It will diversify builds !
Edited by Adashra#2306 on 10/5/2012 2:39 PM PDT
Thank you Lylirra for trying to help those less fortunate understand. The mission never ends partially due to the severity of the condition of the peopel you speak to as you can tell from replies
Edited by Glassfist#1820 on 10/5/2012 2:42 PM PDT


I'll take a look. :)

(And, no, this doesn't mean I haven't seen all the other threads players have posted. This forum has kept me very busy with all the feedback you've provided. Keep it up!)


Oh my god ... you are looking at my post.

This thread went from "doomsday / death knoll" for monks to "I can see the light at the end of the tunnel and it is beautiful" for me in the span of a day.

Thank you Blues SO much for the further communication it has helped me have a reason to keep playing my monk!

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

-Druin, the happy monk


Hey Druin and Lylirra, I posted actual graphs of the damage scaling comparison between FoT/TC and the three WotHF runes in this post. Check it out! I think this is some good evidence that our Spirit generators need rework.

A link to the post for convenience:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6607333164?page=3
Edited by strikerdude#1306 on 10/5/2012 2:46 PM PDT
10/05/2012 11:13 AMPosted by Lylirra
Your first post saying monks are SOLID CLASS in terms of power....


Correct, but that's only one variable when it comes to class balance. In terms of power, we feel that monks are doing pretty well. But in terms of build and play style diversity, resource management and budgeting, and offensive passives, we feel that there's still room for improvement. There's a lot that works for monks right now, but there are definitely areas that could be better.

.


This is exactly what i thought vaeflare meant. I agree with this. monks arent weaklings they just lack variety.

people get angry far too easily.

just think about the glass cannon wiz and dh they will have far harder time than monks in inferno.
Thank you! This is the kind of feedback I was hoping to hear. Keep the good news rolling!

10/05/2012 11:13 AMPosted by Lylirra
Your first post saying monks are SOLID CLASS in terms of power....


Correct, but that's only one variable when it comes to class balance. In terms of power, we feel that monks are doing pretty well. But in terms of build and play style diversity, resource management and budgeting, and offensive passives, we feel that there's still room for improvement. There's a lot that works for monks right now, but there are definitely areas that could be better.

Oh, and what is with this "we can't just tweek numbers to ballance the class" do you read your own patch notes? what was the last game mechanic change you made that did not involve either "doubling it" or cutting it in half? WHAT IS GOING ON DOWN THERE? of course you can tweek numbers to buff weak skills. ugh all you ever do with your patches is change a variable in a formula and now all of a sudden you can't? who actually believes this load?


I think you may have misunderstood. The kinds of changes we're currently considering for monks (the changes we feel would best benefit the class) go beyond simply upping one number or lowering another. The examples Vaeflare provided for Dashing Strike and Lashing Tail Kick fall into this category. Adjusting numbers is fairly easy to do, but redesigning how a skill or skill rune works is much more complex. While we still may tweak some skill values in the future, right now we're looking at changes that require a little more development time.

As for "what was the last mechanic change you made that did not involve either 'doubling it' or cutting it in half"? From 1.0.5, the changes to Companion and Sentry are great examples, and we're redesigning some runes this patch too. From 1.0.4, witch doctor pet improvements were pretty notable. We also changed the format for how damage over time is dealt for a number of skills, as well.

Ohh I get it, you mean nerfing OWE, right?


What Wyatt said previously still holds true:

    In terms of passives, it's pretty clear at this point that One With Everything is considered a mandatory passive for all monks. While "mandatory" passives aren't great, making any major change would do more harm than good, particularly when a) incoming damage is so high and b) monks need the extra durability in order to survive. Additionally, as a result of this passive, monks are more heavily tied to their current gear, so making changes to One With Everything would have very noticeable negative repercussions to the gear monks have invested in.

    While we'd prefer that there wasn't an "absolutely mandatory" passive, we're going to let this one ride for now. If we do try to make changes we'll ideally do it in a way that doesn't invalidate the passive, doesn't hurt monk survivability, and doesn't undermine the gear people are currently wearing.


We don't have any changes planned for OWE right now. That may change, but if it does, we'd still want our approach to be as outlined above.
Blues say the monk's power is good or OK. Compared to the other classes that's not true. Offensively the monk is the worst DPS class in the game (considering equal gear for each class) and is totally lacking in offensive passives. Defensively, monk's primary stat is trash next to str or int based characters. Let's face it, what kills you is elites' special attacks of molten, mortar, arcane, desecrator, etc. Str counters these with armor, Int counters this with resistance, and Dex does....poop. Dodge is already inferior as a RNG instead of always UP working like armor and resistance. It would be a great idea if the devs made dodge work against these attacks like str and int do, after all, monks are suppose to be agile evading attacks.
Just so that I know that we're on the same page, have you had the opportunity to read this developer journal, yet? http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/7155884/ (It was written a few weeks ago, so it may have been missed.)

It goes pretty in depth into why we're making changes to defensive skills, and breaks down each change class-by-class.


Ok, I will bite. Yes, I have read that developer journal. Yes, you can take a good look at my build. It is very close to the norm with a couple of minor exceptions. There is a reason monks require the passives and it is one that is not recognized in this journal. Our main statistic adds a RNG defensive baseline stat to our class. This is the same with DH's, but they are a ranged class. Monks, however, have to do all of their damage in melee range. So, the problem with the approach taken by Blizzard in this instance is that a class that is already resource starved now has to work even harder to remain alive because the baseline defensive skills are getting hit with a massive nerf bat. Now, couple this with the fact that the Monk does not have the "stun" skills that other classes have to balance this change by limiting incoming damage. I hope that the dilemma becomes clear.

Survivability goes down. Resource generation remains unchanged. Other changes to the class that might actually increase survivability in the form of stuns are non-existent. All of this leads to everyone questioning whether Blizzard has devs that actually play the class as their main. From everything I have seen, my instinct is "no."
Edited by Fayld#1951 on 10/5/2012 3:04 PM PDT
Testing as we speak.
10/05/2012 11:13 AMPosted by Lylirra
Correct, but that's only one variable when it comes to class balance. In terms of power, we feel that monks are doing pretty well. But in terms of build and play style diversity, resource management and budgeting, and offensive passives
That's a LONG LIST of things "wrong" with Monk.
Also, "power" isn't doing "pretty well" for Monks. Take a 100k dps Monk and port that gear over to Barb equivalent, and they'll be 200+k dps. That is *NOT* the definition of balance.
10/05/2012 11:13 AMPosted by Lylirra
Correct, but that's only one variable when it comes to class balance. In terms of power, we feel that monks are doing pretty well. But in terms of build and play style diversity, resource management and budgeting, and offensive passives, we feel that there's still room for improvement. There's a lot that works for monks right now, but there are definitely areas that could be better.


Looks like they kinda get it. All mentioned areas with "room for improvement" are where the major issues are. Kinda hurts it doesn't look like we will see these improvements in 1.0.5, though. I recently built a monk, and really like the class as a whole, but I agree most players grievances are valid.
That's a LONG LIST of things "wrong" with Monk.
Also, "power" isn't doing "pretty well" for Monks. Take a 100k dps Monk and port that gear over to Barb equivalent, and they'll be 200+k dps. That is *NOT* the definition of balance.


You have to consider more than what your character screen tells you, especially with abilties like Conviction: Overawe.
Seems like they finally made a CM deal with the issue properly lol
Defensively, monk's primary stat is trash next to str or int based characters. Let's face it, what kills you is elites' special attacks of molten, mortar, arcane, desecrator, etc..


if monks die to mortar i will lol
10/05/2012 01:54 PMPosted by Exile
Enough will all the stupid people suggesting to make OWE an inherent passive. Do you really believe that Blizzard is going to do that just for Monks? No class has an inherent passive, unless you call the 30% damage reduction for melee users a passive skill.


Barbs generate fury while being hit, isn't it a inherent passive in the same way? We don't generate spirit receiving blows. So where's the problem?
As per Lylirra lastest posts...

See how they identify & solve problems, go straight to the top first then move your way backward with items at highest priority. Also netbuff & similar workaround.

With this in mind we could narrow down, pin point potential problem & solution back for our CM to see.
i really hope that they make some diversity to our primary skills its like FoT is the only usable as of now and Foresight is only used as a buff... Its like frenzy way back in the past before IAS nerf
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