Diablo® III

Request for response on state of Monks..

(Locked)

The Facts:
- This thread is full of whiny sub-par monks (there is nothing wrong with that, but don't expect to farm effectively when you're clearly trying to be a melee glass cannon).


Fact. you posted a whine, you piece of uneducated sub-par elitist. Take off all those gears you bought and what do you have? Skills. Are we talking about equipment boost here? Go fetch a bucket and cry me a river.


- Barbarians are ridiculously overpowered by comparison, but only in terms of cost. As far as gear cost to DPS/EHP ratios go, the barbarian is infinitely better. The issue is more a combination of the economy and the actual items they have access to (IK set MUCH more beneficial comparative to Inna's) rather than the power of the class itself.


so.... an AH issue? please. if you're going to inject the AH cost of being a better monk. learn to read again. comprehension fail.


- Monks are not by any means weak. SW:C and MoC:OW are ridiculously overpowered skills. Just because you cannot farm MP10 on easy mode doesn't mean you're playing a weak class. This game is still relatively new, and it should take time to reach the point where you can farm end-game content comfortably. Too many of you seem to have a false sense of entitlement, and no work ethic or patience at all.


yes, monks are not by any means weak, says the guy with better armor. monks shouldn't be tanking for the barbs while they run around in circles. it should be the other way around.

false sense of entitlement, (fact. we, bought the game classified as ARPG)
and no work ethic or patience. (fact. it's a game not a job)

elitist. douche. stop trolling.

i smell a bad a$$ troll
Edited by Weightless#2800 on 10/7/2012 7:46 AM PDT
"I smell a badass troll, because no one but a troll would disagree that it's fine for a class to require $1000 to be legitimately strong."
Edited by Zeriel#1544 on 10/7/2012 7:57 AM PDT
My Opinions I'm Trying to Pass Off as Facts:

Fixed that for you. You're welcome.


- This thread is full of whiny sub-par monks (there is nothing wrong with that, but don't expect to farm effectively when you're clearly trying to be a melee glass cannon).

You're only Plevel 55, yet you have 1 billion+ in gear. You're either incredibly lucky, an AH flipper, or just spent money on RMAH. Either way, calling everyone who didn't have the luck or resources to spend as much on gear as you sub-par is incredibly bad form, and I'll leave it at that.


- Barbarians are ridiculously overpowered by comparison, but only in terms of cost. As far as gear cost to DPS/EHP ratios go, the barbarian is infinitely better. The issue is more a combination of the economy and the actual items they have access to (IK set MUCH more beneficial comparative to Inna's) rather than the power of the class itself.

One gear set does not such a difference make, although the IK - Inna's comparison is, indeed, ridiculous. Cost to EHP/DPS ratio is the only thing that matters in class comparisons.

The gear costs approximately the same now (I know, as unlike you I also have a Barbarian that I cleared Inferno with) because everyone plays barbs (thanks Blizz). Monk gear used to be more expensive. The only difference is in the skills. They give you EHP/DPS and are unimaginably better with barbs.


- Monks are not by any means weak. SW:C and MoC:OW are ridiculously overpowered skills. Just because you cannot farm MP10 on easy mode doesn't mean you're playing a weak class. This game is still relatively new, and it should take time to reach the point where you can farm end-game content comfortably. Too many of you seem to have a false sense of entitlement, and no work ethic or patience at all.

The skills you mentioned are powerful, not overpowered. I'll just mention Rend, WotB, Ruthless, Weapons Master, Sprint/RltW and leave it at that. I could give you a comprehensive breakdown of the skills with math, but why bother when you already seem to think your opinions are facts.
Edited by davormen#1790 on 10/7/2012 7:59 AM PDT

Fact. you posted a whine, you piece of uneducated sub-par elitist. Take off all those gears you bought and what do you have? Skills. Are we talking about equipment boost here? Go fetch a bucket and cry me a river.


Not whining at all. Oddly enough, you're responding to what you consider to be whining with more whining. You may not have realized by now, but this game is based on equipment, not skills.

10/07/2012 07:34 AMPosted by DeathBringer
so.... an AH issue? please. if you're going to inject the AH cost of being a better monk. learn to read again. comprehension fail.


This makes no sense at all. I'm not sure what you're even trying to communicate here. You should take your own advice on this one.

10/07/2012 07:34 AMPosted by DeathBringer
yes, monks are not by any means weak, says the guy with better armor. monks shouldn't be tanking for the barbs while they run around in circles. it should be the other way around.


Not completely sure what this is supposed to mean either to be honest. You want to give monks the whirlwind skill and force barbs to tank for them?


There are some valid point there... Somewhere.
You go pretty much full glass too, but you have DPS to cover it. Two piece Nat's, two piece Inna's, The Witching Hour, Tal Rasha etc - all good, but what makes you anything else but Glass Cannon? 383 Cold? ~200 All res (if i am not wrong),39k health, 6.9k armor with STI? Not much, and I am sure that is great gear and you don't need more when you can deliver that kind of DPS, but "don't expect to farm effectively when you're clearly trying to be a melee glass cannon" - guess it works for you.


I'm pretty far from a glass cannon, and while I do intend to change my gear somewhat for mp10, it doesn't make sense to do it before 1.0.5. Maybe we have different definitions of what a glass cannon is, but there are people with considerably less survivability than me complaining about how "weak" monks are. I feel it simply isn't true, even with worse gear.
10/05/2012 11:13 AMPosted by Lylirra
Your first post saying monks are SOLID CLASS in terms of power....


Correct, but that's only one variable when it comes to class balance. In terms of power, we feel that monks are doing pretty well. But in terms of build and play style diversity, resource management and budgeting, and offensive passives, we feel that there's still room for improvement. There's a lot that works for monks right now, but there are definitely areas that could be better.

Oh, and what is with this "we can't just tweek numbers to ballance the class" do you read your own patch notes? what was the last game mechanic change you made that did not involve either "doubling it" or cutting it in half? WHAT IS GOING ON DOWN THERE? of course you can tweek numbers to buff weak skills. ugh all you ever do with your patches is change a variable in a formula and now all of a sudden you can't? who actually believes this load?


I think you may have misunderstood. The kinds of changes we're currently considering for monks (the changes we feel would best benefit the class) go beyond simply upping one number or lowering another. The examples Vaeflare provided for Dashing Strike and Lashing Tail Kick fall into this category. Adjusting numbers is fairly easy to do, but redesigning how a skill or skill rune works is much more complex. While we still may tweak some skill values in the future, right now we're looking at changes that require a little more development time.


So why not do some easy tweaks with numbers for now, so we have something to help the class out until patch 1.0X when you implement these changes to make a Monk more active vs passive.

You also need to fix dexterity... Put a bandaid fix on it for now that makes it so it also gives .25 armor per point and .25 the amount of RES you get from 1 Int, you could make the dimishing returns on dodge even more horrible if you felt like it. This would help a lot with the blow to SI. Would also help Demon Hunters out a lot...

calling everyone who didn't have the luck or resources to spend as much on gear as you sub-par is incredibly bad form, and I'll leave it at that.


I shouldn't really need to explain this, but I didn't suggest that everyone with gear worse than mine was "sub-par", simply that of the monks complaining in this thread, some fit the description.


One gear set does not such a difference make, although the IK - Inna's comparison is, indeed, ridiculous. Cost to EHP/DPS ratio is the only thing that matters in class comparisons.


Maybe I misworded that, but it was meant as a single example. Pretty sure you're agreeing with me there though.


The gear costs approximately the same now (I know, as unlike you I also have a Barbarian that I cleared Inferno with) because everyone plays barbs (thanks Blizz). Monk gear used to be more expensive. The only difference is in the skills. They give you EHP/DPS and are unimaginably better with barbs.


When you write that the gear costs "about the same", how are you making that comparison? The only example I can think of where an accurate comparison could be made would be witching hours or maybe weapons. Other than that our gear isn't very similar at all, unless I'm mistaken, which is possible. As you pointed out, I don't play a barb.


I could give you a comprehensive breakdown of the skills with math.


I'd appreciate it if you would. I'm always prepared to change an opinion if someone presents some compelling information in a mature way.

Not whining at all. Oddly enough, you're responding to what you consider to be whining with more whining. You may not have realized by now, but this game is based on equipment, not skills.


really? i can see a little whine there... it's as if you are afraid that if they adjusted what is right, it will eventually affect the cost of your gears.
and no. that's not a whine, it's a lecture. you, go back to school.

This makes no sense at all. I'm not sure what you're even trying to communicate here. You should take your own advice on this one.


really? where the heck did you get the idea about economy and costs when the topic is about skills? really? you should really re-learn everything.

Not completely sure what this is supposed to mean either to be honest. You want to give monks the whirlwind skill and force barbs to tank for them?


do you read from the start? or just troll around and answer the first post you read? read again. read carefully. did i say those things? nope. tanking is tanking, did i say swap the class-specific skills?

really. you need to go back to school and stop trolling.
Edited by DeathBringer#1726 on 10/7/2012 8:12 AM PDT


you have points but miss something important completely. Blizz thinks monk is good as is, but no thats not true: we have no real choice, no viable builds except cyclone, overawe, serenity etc.

u miss the point, barbarians can play more then 1 build, but only 1 build is playable, so u can play the game and enjoy.
All other classes have 1 build too, ONLY 1 build.. so stop talking only about monks, u now talk about the whole thing in total, why u address it only to monks now huh?


You are either ignorant or trolling or dumb. Fortunately I can easily prove how wrong you are. Just checked diabloprogress, it gives you percentage of skills used by classes. Build diversity is pretty bad for all classes, but monks are way more affected then others. Just adding up 6 most used active skill for top 500 heroscore gives:

Barb: 418,8% (69,8% average)
DH: 442.2% (73,7%)
Monk: 499.6% (83,3%)
WD 409.6% (68,3%)
Wiz: 459.8% (76,6%)

Other classes have more viable builds and these builds are used more. Also 1.05 helps monks the least.
The Facts:
- This thread is full of whiny sub-par monks (there is nothing wrong with that, but don't expect to farm effectively when you're clearly trying to be a melee glass cannon).


Fact. you posted a whine, you piece of uneducated sub-par elitist. Take off all those gears you bought and what do you have? Skills. Are we talking about equipment boost here? Go fetch a bucket and cry me a river.


- Barbarians are ridiculously overpowered by comparison, but only in terms of cost. As far as gear cost to DPS/EHP ratios go, the barbarian is infinitely better. The issue is more a combination of the economy and the actual items they have access to (IK set MUCH more beneficial comparative to Inna's) rather than the power of the class itself.


so.... an AH issue? please. if you're going to inject the AH cost of being a better monk. learn to read again. comprehension fail.


- Monks are not by any means weak. SW:C and MoC:OW are ridiculously overpowered skills. Just because you cannot farm MP10 on easy mode doesn't mean you're playing a weak class. This game is still relatively new, and it should take time to reach the point where you can farm end-game content comfortably. Too many of you seem to have a false sense of entitlement, and no work ethic or patience at all.


yes, monks are not by any means weak, says the guy with better armor. monks shouldn't be tanking for the barbs while they run around in circles. it should be the other way around.

false sense of entitlement, (fact. we, bought the game classified as ARPG)
and no work ethic or patience. (fact. it's a game not a job)

elitist. douche. stop trolling.


Nice rebuttal to his moronic comments...

Hate it when an elitist tries to come up in a thread like this and take over by saying 'everything is fine' with Monk...maybe a blizzard fanboi?
First of all, please do not change the OWE. All the monks are tied to their gear when it comes to resist. If ever you guys will need to change or adjust the one with everything that means you have to rename it or redefining one with everything. And trust me all the monks player will be cursing at you.

Second, monks is always second comparing to barbarian. Barbarian is always superior in damage and armor. And if you will say that monks have better attack speed and dodge, will barb have berseker, frenzy and block.
10/07/2012 07:59 AMPosted by Cruciform
I'm pretty far from a glass cannon, and while I do intend to change my gear somewhat for mp10, it doesn't make sense to do it before 1.0.5

I agree there is no point in getting more survivability before patch goes live.
10/07/2012 07:59 AMPosted by Cruciform
Maybe we have different definitions of what a glass cannon is, but there are people with considerably less survivability than me complaining about how "weak" monks are.

Maybe we do, indeed. Maybe for you GC is someone with 25k health, 300 all res with OWE and 3.5k armor. I would call that suicidal, but never mind. If you could remember playing with 40k DPS, imagine your current defense against Hulking Phasebeasts. Without that DPS you have now to dispatch them quickly - you would be corpse farming.
So, what is wrong with GC? Martial arts class (sort of) should go with heavy armor, shield maybe? It doesn't sound logical to me. It is perfectly fine with me if someone rolls Monk that way, but it will get you nowhere in this game farming-wise.
10/04/2012 07:13 PMPosted by Kiiath
Deetz, I do agree that other classes were "favored" in the release of D3. If Blizzard would have given the same attention to the Monk as they did the Barb. Im pretty sure that the Monk would be the favored Char. of D3.


i don't think ANY class should be FAVORED. they should ALL be balanced
Edited by IronFist58#1516 on 10/7/2012 10:49 AM PDT
We feel that monks are in a decent place at the moment, and are a solid class in terms of power.


After trying monk I saw the Wizard incredibely OP. OP tankiness (for free: I think prismatic armor is the Opest skill in the hole game and I like it :)), OP damage (especially archon) and much cheaper damage and dont forget the range. Monk might be a solid class in terms of Power but for a fixed amount of gold to spend say 100M 200M Wizards are way in a better place.
Edited by Hassoun#1123 on 10/7/2012 11:07 AM PDT
Stop comparing classes! It's ridiculous to compare the monk and for example the DH and say that the DH is overpowered or that the monk is trash. They both shine in different ways, the monk is the best at mitigating damage. If you're unhappy with that; change classes or simply shut up. The constant whining on the forums is making Blizzard nerf every good builds because you want every class to be as efficient when farming.
Because this game is about farming.... its understandable that people dont want to be slowed down by 50% only because they dont play X class Y build.
I guess Im the only one who feels like my monk is powerful
I JUST WANT TO SAY THATS

Why I'm just thinking about why I cannot sell and buy any monk items 'cause here what says about monk skill nerfs that make monks mind confuse and they do not know where they will spend built in their gears.

So Stop to make people minds confuse and just say that you can go and open a barbarian 'cause it is imba for now but we think we will mess your monks and your item built in the future!

You want to ruin all "One With Everything" skill that you are obsessed to it?! Please just do it now! and no one care no more and AH/RMAH will be return to normal.

Sorry if my argument went to bad but I am a monk and this made me stresfully!
Edited by Deaden#2204 on 10/7/2012 2:46 PM PDT
The only thing i have to say about Blizz nerfing monks is...

Blizzard!

Wut R U doing?

BLIZZARD!

STAHP!
Posts: 9,118
I refuse to play my Monk until things get addressed. Even if it's in 1.06, 1.07, or whenever. My Monk will sit idle.

Responses like the blue posts in this forums just shout that developers don't get the core issues with Monk. Many fixes were promised way back in 1.01, and ZERO have materialized.

Monks should have had replacement runes for those that were changed/taken out - never happened.

Monks should have had better scaling and proc rates for skills - never happened (Tempest Rush, Exploding Palm, and Sweeping Winds say hi).

As for Barb comparisons, it's natural. Barbs are a melee class as well, but with infinitely more options. CC immunity, Rend affecting all targets, extra damage, extra movement, no mob collision, damage reducing skills, more armor. The only thing Monks offer is more Resist All, with a Passive that requires an extra gear affix (OWE).

So yes, Blizzard needs to fix Monks. There's a litany of posts out there about issues, and the CMs/Devs seem to turn a big blind eye to them. And coincidentally enough, they all cover the EXACT SAME TOPICS.
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