Diablo® III

Request for response on state of Monks..

(Locked)

10/03/2012 05:35 PMPosted by Vaeflare
We feel that monks are in a decent place at the moment


We don't.
even the players from other classes feel that monks are broken
For example, one possibility we’re considering is changing one of Dashing Strike’s runes to allow players to travel further with the skill so that it can serve as a mobility tool, but at the cost of imposing a cooldown. Another possibility we’re exploring is making Lashing Tail Kick feel more compelling by moving the knockback component to a rune, or changing a rune to remove the knockback and instead increase the damage more meaningfully. These types of changes are not minor tweaks, however. We want to make sure we take some time to make meaningful changes that improve the overall play experience for these sacred warriors.


WE DONT NEED OFFENSE BUFFING!!!!! ROLLBACK THE DEFENSE NERF!!!!!
I would really enjoy the possibility of not dying within 2 seconds without a shield
Community management failure.

Try again.
I keep reading that Jay Wilson plays a barb, and this is why barbs are favored. I've never seen anyone suggest the obvious: the best player on the dev team plays a monk, and Jay isn't good at D3, hence monks get nerfed and barbs get WW OMG WTF ;-)

I'm going to go to bed now and pretend I didn't read Vaelflare's post. Sad, but true.
Wizard here. Since both of our classes are our Blizzard's sh*t list let's all be friends, k? :)
Blue, you just gave as a million reason not to use monks anymore!!!!
The monk is in a decent place? Why is everybody using almost the exact same build? Everyone uses Fists of Thunder/Thunderclap because none of the other generators proc worth a damn. Our toolbars are filled with buff skills because there's nothing else worth spending spirit on and its difficult to get decent DPS without spending a fortune on the AH. Everybody uses the same passives, not because STI or OWE is overpowered, but because all of the other ones just blow. The STI nerf is completely unnecessary, and the fact that they repeatedly bring up changing OWE is just ridiculous, if it isn't broken don't try to fix it. If they want "build diversity" how about bringing the other skills up to par?
10/03/2012 08:21 PMPosted by Herpaderpus
Wizard here. Since both of our classes are our Blizzard's sh*t list let's all be friends, k? :)


*nohomohug*
10/03/2012 08:21 PMPosted by Herpaderpus
Wizard here. Since both of our classes are our Blizzard's sh*t list let's all be friends, k? :)


Okay.. Let's make a petitiion to make Wizards and Monks to be converted to just followers...
Instructions
1
Take the time to listen to your monks. Your monks are always listening to you, so try listening to them for a change. Give monks the chance to bring up concerns and suggestions to you. Let monks use their own suggestions as solutions to problems. This will empower them to take charge of situations and see them succeed.

2
Communicate in a straightforward and clear manner when speaking with your monks. monks won't have the chance to feel empowered if they don't understand what they are supposed to be doing or why they are supposed to be doing it.

3
Tap into the talents of monks. Find out what each monk does well, in addition to what they enjoy doing. Try to assign tasks that will allow monks to enjoy their work and excel while doing it.

4
Coach your monks to success. Don't manage your monks--coach them, instead. Provide them with feedback and encouragement so you can help them develop their skills and become a vested member of the team.

5
Give your monks positive reinforcement when they get it right. monks are likely to second-guess their work if they don't receive feedback about it. Let them know when they have done a great job.

6
Evaluate the results of your empowerment techniques. Make it a part of your monthly review. See to it that you are doing everything you can do to empower your monks. Devise a quantifiable way to determine if they are responding to the techniques appropriately.
Edited by Katsukaze#1646 on 10/3/2012 8:28 PM PDT
Posts: 8,294
This post proves how clueless devs are in terms of Monks being... Monk-ish.

This "blue" statement confirms that I will let my Monk collect dust. You can "explore" all you want, but when there's 1 Monk build for 99% of the players, something is wrong.

If you want to make "meaningful changes" sincerely, listen to the Monk community. There's many great posts on the plight on Monks. Here's a brief run-down

Attack Speed for Monks doesn't feel "quick and agile" like a Monk should be. There are not enough abilities to increase this trait for Monks.
Generators
• don't deal enough damage
• don't return enough resources
• Not enough variety
• They require a Monk to stand still, while EVERY OTHER CLASS can generate resources while mobile.

Spenders
• Aren't worth a skill slot
• Resource costs is high versus damage output
o Sweeping Winds has no proc coefficient (0.00!). Make it low, but add one. Have PickUp Radius increase the radius or duration of this ability.
o Seven Sided Strike has a huge cost AND a long cooldown. Remove/lower the cooldown significantly, keep the cost.
o Tempest Rush feels lackluster compared to Whirlwind. Less damage, less utility. Change some of the runes here please. Have Pickup Radius increase the area by an amount.
o Breath of Heaven heal does not scale, and the radius is small. Scale it with… you guessed it – pickup radius.
o Lashing Tail Kick – cost is slightly too high, has odd knockback.
o Dashing Strike – wut? Use Thunderclap and GAIN spirit and deal just slightly lower damage. The cost in additional to the skill slot do not justify this ability.
o Wave of Light – lol? ½ your Spirit bar for an attack that deals 390% base. No other class gives up ½ their resources for just 390% damage. It’s been improved, sure, but cost really needs to reduce down to 50 before even considering using an active slot for this.
o Exploding Palm – looks good on paper, but in practice, Rend is much more effective. It only hits 1 enemy, has a large-ish cost (40 spirit! C’mon), and the “explosion” at the end DOES NOT SCALE WITH MONSTER HP IN MULTIPLAYER GAMES OR MPX VALUES. Fix it. Cost should be 10 Spirit if each cast can only hit 1 target. For this cost, it should freeze/stun enemies. That should be a part of the Monk toolkit. Martial arts movies I see always have some character that paralyzes victims.
o Cyclone Strike – I personally love this ability. But again, high cost, not enough radius, not enough damage. Lower to 25, and have PickUp Radius increase the base radius of this ability.
o Inner Sanctuary – please do something with this. 20 second CD makes it nearly useless. Expand the radius with PickUp Radius, reduce the cooldown, and have some better runes.
Mantras
• It seems Monks are balanced around having one, whereas other classes don’t need their buffs to function. A Wizard without Familiar? Still good. A DH without Companion? Yup, functions. A WD without Soul Harvest? No biggie.
• These need to be baseline and not occupy a skill slot.
• These need their on-use effects extended as a Spirit dump. Maybe a toggle mode to go super-buff and drain Spirit constantly. 10 per second or something high equivalent to the 25/3 seconds it is now. It’s not “fun” to simply hit a Mantra for a temp buff every 3 seconds. Or remove Mantra Activation entirely if it’s not going to occupy a skill slot.

Passives
• Wow. Uninspired, lackluster. It’s like the choice of lesser evils. It’s no surprise that Monks use OWE, Seize, and one other of their choosing which doesn’t seem to matter all that much.

• Resolve – needs to work with all abilities that damage a target, and offer some offensive capability as well.
• Fleet Footed – on the right track, but 10% isn’t worth a slot. I would take it if it were 10% to movement AND increased the movement cap to 50%.
• Exalted Soul – Max Spirit is meaningless with all the cd’s and the lack of generation that Monks have. Doesn’t work with current Monk implementation at all. See below for replacement.
• Transcendence – This is good, but no scaling. Poor design.
• Chant of Resonance – This is good, but Mantras are currently designed to be spammed. Doesn’t mesh with that design. The extra Spirit is handy, but 2 per sec is meh.
• Seize the Initiative – Nearly every Monk has this, because it’s one of the better Passives. But that isn’t saying much.
• The Guardian’s Path – Extra dodge is nifty, but dodge suffers from diminishing returns heavily. It doesn’t yield 15%. The 2h Weapon Spirit Generation is also pretty nifty, and about the only reason people would consider taking this. But again, lack of Spenders hampers it. Remove the dodge for dual wield and add 25% attack speed.
• Sixth Sense – this is lolworthy. 30% of your crit hit is converted to dodge… which then gets hit by DR. Unless you’re over 45% crit, Guardian’s Path is a better choice. It just feels like a duplication. Needs to be eliminated.
• Pacifism – this one is meh. It’s okay for HC I suppose, but with Serenity and CC-reduction items, it’s not needed. Redesign it please.
• Beacon of Ytar – this one is great for survival builds, since all the survival skills have cd’s. 15% doesn’t seem like much. I think it needs some offensive capability like “Increases Spirit generated from Generators by 50%” or something as well.
• Guiding Light – This is crap. It doesn’t work solo, even if you heal a follower. Plus the range on Breath of Heaven is ridiculously small. Redesign to work with health globes.
• One with Everything – Hands down the best passive Monks have. Or the worst, depending on how you view it. The good news – potentially adds tons of Resist All to Monks. The bad news – it locks you into using 2 affixes for Resist All, and drives the price of gear you need upwards.
• Combination Strike – It works, but it needs a vast overhaul. Keep in mind that this uses 1 Passive PLUS 1 Active slot per 8%. Want that 24% damage increase? 5 skill slots for it. I don’t know of any class that has to jump through that number of hoops just for 24% damage increase.
• Near Death Experience – Good for Hardcore. 35% Spirit is a joke though. It’s getting a buff in 1.05.
Here’s some ideas for Passives
• Steadfast – increase damage you deal when you stand still. 3% per second up to 30%, lasts until you move (1 second maybe?)
• Elemental Affinity – Adds 10% of your physical damage to each of fire, arcane, ice, lightning, etc.
• Elusiveness – increases the damage you deal after you dodge. Adds 1% damage per dodge, stacks up to 40 times. Lasts 5 seconds.
• Spiritual Attunement – reduces the cost of Spirit Spenders by 5% per 3 seconds. Resets when you cast a Spirit Spender.
• Critical Point – when you affect the enemy with a charm/stun/freeze ability, it increases your critical chance by 3% per enemy, maximum of 10 stacks. Lasts 5 seconds.
• Monk Style – If using 2 claws or a daibo, and spirit stone, gain +100 Spirit, +4 Spirit per second, and 15% to dodge.

tl;dr - Monks need more offensive capabilities, less reliance on defensive skills (so more room on their bar), Mantras needs redesign, Passives need redesign, and finally – Monks need to synergize with gear like +pickup radius or CC effects.
I will buy all of your Monk gear.
We feel that monks are in a decent place at the moment, and are a solid class in terms of power, but there are some things that we would like to address with the class. Namely: we would like to delve deeper into fulfilling the fantasy of what it means to be a monk.

Currently, monks spend a lot of their time applying an assortment of DPS buffs through the use of utility and survivability buttons. The bulk of monk damage comes from very passive gameplay, like healing yourself to get a damage buff, or applying Sweeping Winds and not looking at it again. We want to give players who enjoy the fantasy of being a blur of fists and feet a more active playstyle, and we’d love to play up some other fun mechanics as well.

For example, one possibility we’re considering is changing one of Dashing Strike’s runes to allow players to travel further with the skill so that it can serve as a mobility tool, but at the cost of imposing a cooldown. Another possibility we’re exploring is making Lashing Tail Kick feel more compelling by moving the knockback component to a rune, or changing a rune to remove the knockback and instead increase the damage more meaningfully. These types of changes are not minor tweaks, however. We want to make sure we take some time to make meaningful changes that improve the overall play experience for these sacred warriors.


This won't solve any issue. Name one spell WORTH spending spirit on after you get sweeping winds up (not including mantra spam).

There isn't one (MAYBE seven-sided strike if you can put up with the cooldown). There is an insane cost of spirit on every spell unless you use a rune to reduce its spirit cost, which in turn makes the spell useless since you are using a rune to reduce the cost of spirit to actually cast the spell instead of making it a viable spell.

Spirit takes extremely long to generate considering this is a fast-paced game, and the spells provided for the monks cost somewhere near 50-75 spirit or have very long cooldowns. For example, take the barbarian or wizard class resource system. They can leave a (spammable) tornado on the floor that generates insane amounts of their respective resource, or can in general just land a critical strike to gain extra amounts of that resource. That's the only reason they use some of their spells, because they CAN generate enough resource to make it worthwhile. This was attainable through "Fist of Thunder - Quickening" working on sweeping winds for a while, but it was then changed under the claim that it wasn't meant to work that way/is overpowered (some reason like that I'm sure).

The problem is spirit generation. There simply isn't enough of it to keep most of those spells on our bars. Fix spirit, fix monks. Good day.
Somebody fire this guy... No wonder no blues are responding to our threads.. Because they knew they will be train wrecked by monk players!!!
We feel that monks are in a decent place at the moment, and are a solid class in terms of power, but there are some things that we would like to address with the class. Namely: we would like to delve deeper into fulfilling the fantasy of what it means to be a monk.

Currently, monks spend a lot of their time applying an assortment of DPS buffs through the use of utility and survivability buttons. The bulk of monk damage comes from very passive gameplay, like healing yourself to get a damage buff, or applying Sweeping Winds and not looking at it again. We want to give players who enjoy the fantasy of being a blur of fists and feet a more active playstyle, and we’d love to play up some other fun mechanics as well.

For example, one possibility we’re considering is changing one of Dashing Strike’s runes to allow players to travel further with the skill so that it can serve as a mobility tool, but at the cost of imposing a cooldown. Another possibility we’re exploring is making Lashing Tail Kick feel more compelling by moving the knockback component to a rune, or changing a rune to remove the knockback and instead increase the damage more meaningfully. These types of changes are not minor tweaks, however. We want to make sure we take some time to make meaningful changes that improve the overall play experience for these sacred warriors.


wow travel further? like what? out of the screen? com on stop kidding yourself that this travel further s.h.it will be useful

more dmg to LTK? more spirit? more cd? take another slot? make some meaningful changes alright

seriously are you guys that afraid to bring monk on par to the barb just because barb is fat wil's fav char??
Geez.. I can't help it but write a lot of comments about my disappointment!!! Is this guy for real? I am done with monks but not done with my rage!!!! You killed my fave character!!!!
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