Diablo® III

Blizzard just announced they dont testanymore


I understand that hellfire ring was only introduced in 1.05 which is currently in P.T.R. and this patch is not even live yet. I am quite amaze you do not imply that beta testing cannot contain bugs, but at the same time, condemning a P.T.R bug because you think that is easily and consistently reproducible, to the extent of comparing my argument to an archetype of a strawman fallacy. Easy bugs, difficult bugs are all bugs to me and blizzard is fixing them in P.T.R. From the nature that you will keep biting tells me that "hey man, you should just loosen up"!


I don't THINK it was consistently and easily reproducible. It was reproduced every time the effect procced. That IS consistently and easily reproducible. Extending that to all possible bugs is very obviously not the same thing, because not all bugs happen every time you test them, regardless of the circumstances. Not all bugs are equal, not all bugs are obvious. Equating the two and saying that by saying one I am saying the other is creating an argument that I did not make, and is the definition of a strawman argument. You are making one. I can't explain it any better than that.

A lot of people tell me I should loosen up. I tell them we should never lower our standards, because that's how we stagnate as a people. I'll take my way every day of the week.
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10/06/2012 01:25 PMPosted by Ember
Plus this thread (if blizz sees it) will give their QA dept a fairly big lol.


Or cause them to sigh and shake their heads.
From the PTR forums:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6794350883

Abstract:
New end-game hellfire ring from uber bosses, the major new feature from the patch, was doing 3 million damage.

CM just admitted it was a "bug" affecting 100% of the cases and increasing the ring's damage by almost a hundred times - something they didn't notice because they never tried to activate the ring even once before releasing the patch to the public.

Yeah because thats what all big software companies do, right? Make a huge feature and instead of even checking if it works, send it out to public right away?

Or maybe what they do is lie to our face and laugh maniacally as they watch the poor gullible people fall for it.


IT WAS BEING TESTED IN THE "PUBLIC TESTING REALM", YOU KNOW, THAT PLACE WHERE THINGS GET TESTED?!?!?


Was getting upset reading this thread so I decided to join in on the tardfest - if you can't beat 'em join 'em - but now I feel dirty.
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10/06/2012 01:26 PMPosted by OckhamsFolly
A lot of people tell me I should loosen up. I tell them we should never lower our standards, because that's how we stagnate as a people. I'll take my way every day of the week.


It's more like understanding what's minor vs. what's major, and picking your battles accordingly.

This ring issue is definitely minor.


so what? are you joking? so if there was a bug that allowed 35% of the playerbase to steal other peoples gear at will and get items off the RMAH for free that ended up going live, you'd be like "so what"??
.


-------------------------

OFC I wouldn't be "so what" - as in it doesn't matter, which is what you are implying I said (which I didn't).

I was saying if you are shocked a bug could make it to live, then you obviously have no idea of the complexities of this area of work. And that's fine... but your expectations are unrealistic so you are going to be disappointed (presumably until you write a game and show every other company on earth how its really done!).

Plus this thread (if blizz sees it) will give their QA dept a fairly big lol.


depends on the bug

i dunno if you've been playing the last 4 months where some pretty nice bugs have managed to make it live.

of course thats why you have a beta test with actual professionals and not the general public where most testers are not even going to be able to adequately search for a bug, let alone have the source code to identify whether it is a bug or not.
10/06/2012 01:30 PMPosted by Ryaskybird
A lot of people tell me I should loosen up. I tell them we should never lower our standards, because that's how we stagnate as a people. I'll take my way every day of the week.


It's more like understanding what's minor vs. what's major, and picking your battles accordingly.

This ring issue is definitely minor.


Sure, it's minor enough. But I don't see why anyone would ever defend a even a minor screw-up like they have in this thread. Give an inch, they'll take a mile, and other old cliches. Really, the picking your battles argument is only pertinent when you have something to lose. I would've just been poking around the D3 forums wasting my time otherwise, so why not make a case for not just dismissing Blizzard's poor communication and testing?

Of course, as I stated earlier, now I have other things that I do have to do. My downtime is up, and this argument will cost me something. So I'm off to do something productive.

I understand that hellfire ring was only introduced in 1.05 which is currently in P.T.R. and this patch is not even live yet. I am quite amaze you do not imply that beta testing cannot contain bugs, but at the same time, condemning a P.T.R bug because you think that is easily and consistently reproducible, to the extent of comparing my argument to an archetype of a strawman fallacy. Easy bugs, difficult bugs are all bugs to me and blizzard is fixing them in P.T.R. From the nature that you will keep biting tells me that "hey man, you should just loosen up"!


I don't THINK it was consistently and easily reproducible. It was reproduced every time the effect procced. That IS consistently and easily reproducible. Extending that to all possible bugs is very obviously not the same thing, because not all bugs happen every time you test them, regardless of the circumstances. Not all bugs are equal, not all bugs are obvious. Equating the two and saying that by saying one I am saying the other is creating an argument that I did not make, and is the definition of a strawman argument. You are making one. I can't explain it any better than that.

A lot of people tell me I should loosen up. I tell them we should never lower our standards, because that's how we stagnate as a people. I'll take my way every day of the week.


Firstly, it is just a bug in a test realm so they are fixing it. Major bug, minor bug, whatever. There is no need to get worked up and keep biting. Secondly, it is just a game. There is more than life outside the room.

It is not about lowering our standards or being stagnate. It is understandable that while pursuing excellence, man are NEVER PERFECT and everyone can make even the simplest of mistakes. No matter how you strive to improve, you can be godlike in games, you can own me in games, but in reality, you and i are never God.
Edited by lawong78#1595 on 10/6/2012 1:43 PM PDT
"i dunno if you've been playing the last 4 months where some pretty nice bugs have managed to make it live."

I've not been playing the last 2 weeks (in Live) specifically because of a bug actually.

Some bugs are complicated and .. from my experience even with top devs (or bug fixers/infrastructure) trying to fix them .. then can take a lot of time to figure out.

Others are simple, and sure a quick fix would be nice, but its a bit naive to think we have a true picture of the workload/internal priorities.

Some things are just far more important, than a single item (ring/whatever) on a test realm, whether some folk like that or not.

This whole thread is just really silly.
Edited by Ember#2795 on 10/6/2012 1:42 PM PDT
@Mr Conan

Because instead of saying " Wow, i really like this new end game ring "

It has now become, " Erm, ok the last time i had this ring, it has a bug, but i really like it, it make me really strong,but with the correction, it somehow seem...not so powerful "

Once a product get to the market and it get over sell by accident ( in this case ) which by accident again, is welcome and well liked by the consumers ( I would really like a ring that make me hit 1-3 million damages. ), it is quite hard to pull it back, especially once the public image of that product is been formed and expectation is set to a certain degree. Public test Realm or not.

Hence you have people saying the the ring bug is not a bug but a pretend of Blizzard to said it is a bug and trying to neft it. This would not had happened if the issue never happened in the first place.

Some percentage of the community are already sounding out loud with their issues with nerfing. Wizard and Monk get hit really hard by the incoming 1.05. Nerfting is suddenly the dirty word in Diablo.

I personally don`t believe it is a cover up by Blizzard, it really sound very silly. However the perception of how Blizzard runs things to do their testing is set into some people's head. The damage is done.

First impression is the most important, especially when you are trying to impress your consumers with a " WOW " design.

Instead of "WOW" reactions, it turned into name calling, trolling, silly bashing between gamer who might not realize they could be neighbours, over a ring that don't exist? Is there such a need? On a forum?

( Yea Microsoft always gave us a numbers of bugs ridden crappy software and windows, and they always patch it up. But their core business is not entertainment. When your entertainments is bugs ridden, i guess you won't really be entertained. )
10/06/2012 01:37 PMPosted by OckhamsFolly


It's more like understanding what's minor vs. what's major, and picking your battles accordingly.

This ring issue is definitely minor.


Sure, it's minor enough. But I don't see why anyone would ever defend a even a minor screw-up like they have in this thread. Give an inch, they'll take a mile, and other old cliches. Really, the picking your battles argument is only pertinent when you have something to lose. I would've just been poking around the D3 forums wasting my time otherwise, so why not make a case for not just dismissing Blizzard's poor communication and testing?


wtf? give an inch, they'll take a mile? What are they going to take from you? That's freaking tinfoil hat talk right there. Do yourself a favor, go play another game because obviously blizzard is plotting something nefarious against you by fixing bugs.
10/05/2012 11:37 PMPosted by Koric
It is simply inconceivable to launch something without even TRYING IT OUT. It doesn't matter if it is a test server - this is the equivalent of, for example, everytime you exit town you instantly die. Everyone. Everytime.


This. (I am a software dev by profession). If I was the one who came up with this ring, you can be absolutely sure the moment I committed my contribution I got the next stable build up and running so I could *see what it is that I had created*. In most cases I wouldn't even be *able* to commit said changes to a collaborative HEAD without first going through a local QA process, regression test run/CI setup.

Regressions and bugs _happen_. Gross oversights should not.
@ Figgins, Exactly. But this isn't a "gross oversight".

This is not a game breaking bug where everyone dies or we all lose our chars or all DC.

It's of no importance other than some people were OP and are now less so... on a test realm.
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dumb bloody thread

about a dumb bloody ring
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10/06/2012 01:53 PMPosted by figgins42
It is simply inconceivable to launch something without even TRYING IT OUT. It doesn't matter if it is a test server - this is the equivalent of, for example, everytime you exit town you instantly die. Everyone. Everytime.


This. (I am a software dev by profession). If I was the one who came up with this ring, you can be absolutely sure the moment I committed my contribution I got the next stable build up and running so I could *see what it is that I had created*. In most cases I wouldn't even be *able* to commit said changes to a collaborative HEAD without first going through a local QA process, regression test run/CI setup.

Regressions and bugs _happen_. Gross oversights should not.


In my last job I was a human resources manager. Part of my duties included calculating commissions, which I then submitted to payroll. Good systems were definitely in place to make sure that people were paid correctly, but do you want to guess how many times mistakes were made? Not just by me, but also by the department managers, my direct boss and Home Office itself. My favorite was a sales rep getting over $250,000 in commission instead of the $1,400 she was supposed to receive. (We retrieved the excess amount, but the fuss and bother was almost as bad as these forums in full cry.)

Any system, no matter how excellent, can and, at some point, will break down wherever there is human interaction. A popular name for this is Murphy's Law.
It is simply inconceivable to launch something without even TRYING IT OUT. It doesn't matter if it is a test server - this is the equivalent of, for example, everytime you exit town you instantly die. Everyone. Everytime.


This. (I am a software dev by profession). If I was the one who came up with this ring, you can be absolutely sure the moment I committed my contribution I got the next stable build up and running so I could *see what it is that I had created*. In most cases I wouldn't even be *able* to commit said changes to a collaborative HEAD without first going through a local QA process, regression test run/CI setup.

Regressions and bugs _happen_. Gross oversights should not.


LOL, dont act like yo $hite dont stink. I'm sure the QA process over at MS and apple is a lot more extensive than where you work at and those two companies both let major broken products ship. Mistakes happen. get over it
Edited by Monsta#1979 on 10/6/2012 2:14 PM PDT
10/05/2012 11:19 PMPosted by DarthSki44
You are saying they don't test things out, while quoting a topic from the TEST realm.
The point is that a company is meant to test content ITSELF to at least some extent not just get its players to do the work for them for free.

We should be the last line of testing, the point where they think they've nailed everything but want to make absolutely sure. We should not be the core testing contingent. You're meant to be PAY people to that JOB.

Greedy company is greedy. And the best thing about it? The dolts who call themselves fans not only fall for it every time but even DEFEND that company in their decisions (see post above).

Wow, hahaha.
Edited by Aqueous#2403 on 10/6/2012 2:21 PM PDT
100 Night Elf Hunter
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Posts: 9,025
10/06/2012 02:14 PMPosted by Monsta


This. (I am a software dev by profession). If I was the one who came up with this ring, you can be absolutely sure the moment I committed my contribution I got the next stable build up and running so I could *see what it is that I had created*. In most cases I wouldn't even be *able* to commit said changes to a collaborative HEAD without first going through a local QA process, regression test run/CI setup.

Regressions and bugs _happen_. Gross oversights should not.


LOL, dont act like yo $hite dont stink. I'm sure the QA process over at MS and apple is a lot more extensive than where you work at and those two companies both let major broken products ship. Mistakes happen. get over it


You know, I'd be more annoyed over the glitches, bugs, errors and outright bad OS's (ME anyone?) Microsoft foists upon us than any video game ring that never made it out of PTR.

Speaking of which:

http://anongallery.org/5442/windows-8
Why pay their employees to test it, when they could have us test it for free?
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