Diablo® III

Blizzard just announced they dont testanymore

10/06/2012 05:19 PMPosted by viscrom
Explain how stopping a PTR build for a minor bug that does nothing to the rest of the game make sense when, as you've said, you have a hundred other things to test.


Who says it has to stop it? It should have never reached it.

Make a build, commit it to an internal server. Have QA run through and test the changes/additions made in the patch. If everything is good, move onto the next set of tasks to tackle the next upcoming patch while pushing the latest "internally tested and stable" build to the PTR.

It's impossible for the ring to be bugged and released on the PTR because Blizzard isn't retarded enough to push a build out to the public with absolutely no testing whatsoever internally. No one releases the entire infernal machine system (everything, not just the ring) without having at least a small team play test it thoroughly before the public even sees it.

The entire infernal machine process and bosses and everything associate to it probably went through at least 10 private testing phases with various number tweaks each time until they finally got it where they wanted. Then they released it to the PTR. I wouldn't be surprised if the infernal machine was playable internally 2+ months ago.

If Blizzard did that regularly people would be crashing and having problems 24/7. Right now only a small % of players have reoccurring crashing/problems. If they did 0% internal testing, the number would be closer to 100% of people having problems instead of only maybe 5%.


Who says it didn't pass the first test round, only to fail on the PTR verification because someone changed another formula later on for another change?

There's about a million stupid things that can happen due to the nature of programming. If it broke after dev testing and too close to a PTR scheduled release then there's no point delaying it to fix one minor thing.
Wow, I am astonished that this thread is still going on. It has now gone from comical to just plain sad.
Had they done any testing it wouldn't have made it to the PTR. It is ONE ITEM and a massive part of this patch. That is just laziness. Of course, with the way this game has been from the beginning it is obvious they aren't testing or even thinking.
Who says it didn't pass the first test round, only to fail on the PTR verification because someone changed another formula later on for another change?

There's about a million stupid things that can happen due to the nature of programming. If it broke after dev testing and too close to a PTR scheduled release then there's no point delaying it to fix one minor thing.


Multiple developers can work on the same project at once with 1 of many different forms of version control. All of them properly handle merge conflicts and multiple people committing changes to 1 build.

Your "formula changed" build would be a completely separate build. QA doesn't really care how many people made changes to a specific build. In the end they just see a build number. When it's been signed off as stable then it gets sent to the PTR.

You're also forgetting a few things. The ring had "bugged" damage for multiple PTR builds and it took them weeks and weeks to announce it as a bug. If it were a legit bug it would have been announced on the day the PTR went up and fixed in the 2nd PTR build but it wasn't.
10/06/2012 04:36 PMPosted by johnson
And yet stupidly obviously bugs and missing features ship in software all the time. Why are you villifying blizzard for a bug that was caught before it even went live into a shipping product??


Please see my older posts in this thread (page 20+). It's about their testing process and not about the bug with the ring. I'm not just calling out Blizzard on this (I've mentioned EA more than once). It's becoming an all-too-common trend and what about the bugs that the player base hasn't found? It's all well and good fixating on a known bug the players have found, but what about everything else?


What point are you trying to make? That blizzard needs to work on getting better at catching bugs? Guess what? So does everyone else. As I've said before, LOTS of software out there have non-obscure bugs and missing features. Why call out blizzard?

Now you're complaining about bugs that havent been discovered? wtf? Talk about a circular argument.
Blizzard sure doesn't have any problems encountered when buffing barbarians or nerfing the other classes.
Who says it didn't pass the first test round, only to fail on the PTR verification because someone changed another formula later on for another change?

There's about a million stupid things that can happen due to the nature of programming. If it broke after dev testing and too close to a PTR scheduled release then there's no point delaying it to fix one minor thing.


Multiple developers can work on the same project at once with 1 of many different forms of version control. All of them properly handle merge conflicts and multiple people committing changes to 1 build.

Your "formula changed" build would be a completely separate build. QA doesn't really care how many people made changes to a specific build. In the end they just see a build number. When it's been signed off as stable then it gets sent to the PTR.

You're also forgetting a few things. The ring had "bugged" damage for multiple PTR builds and it took them weeks and weeks to announce it as a bug. If it were a legit bug it would have been announced on the day the PTR went up and fixed in the 2nd PTR build but it wasn't.


Here's the scenario I am proposing.

1) Dev works on ring and gets it stable with his testing, hits commit.
2) A few internal tests/builds go by
3) Something breaks one of the formulas for the ring
4) QA finds bug
5) Team looks at schedule and decides that the bug should just be put off as there are more important things to build/fix
6) PTR goes live
7) They build things/triage bugs in their priority queue
8) Present day: bug gets fixed with new PTR load

There's no way for us to know that it wasn't caught internally and that they just decided to ship it to the PTR anyways. And there is nothing wrong with that. They have a few hundred things the public can be testing, the numbers a proc is giving off doesn't need to fixed for them to do that.

This isn't like ToC where for it to be a bug there would have needed to be a complete breakdown in communication system on Blizzard's end. It could have been simply deemed as something to be fixed later.
10/05/2012 11:37 PMPosted by Koric
Or its a test server and they made a programming error and released it on test...where it was caught and fixed. Wow go figure.


See, here's when they start laughing maniacally.

Do you have any notion of software development practices? I assume not, but I also assume Blizzard does.

It is simply inconceivable to launch something without even TRYING IT OUT. It doesn't matter if it is a test server - this is the equivalent of, for example, everytime you exit town you instantly die. Everyone. Everytime.

So you're gonna defend them "oh yeah, its a bug, thats what the test realm is for, they just caught this bug that everyone dies as soon as they exit a town". NO, that is something you notice with 5 minutes of development-phase testing BEFORE releasing it to the public.

This was the single major feature of the whole patch - when you CODE something this big, you RUN THE CODE YOURSELF to check it does what you're expecting it to do. This was no corner case, this was a 100% occurance "bug" with a slightly unnoticeable 1000% factor change.

TL;DR

It wasn't a bug. But they rather lie to us and pretend it is fine to do so, than simply admitting they overpowered it a bit and had to rebalance.

OR... It was a bug. And Blizzard has officially fired all their QA employees and forbid their developers to do any sort testing, which is the only conceivable way to ensure that such a "bug" would be able to surface to the outer world.


I understand software development flowchart, and they didn't release anything so your argument is invalid. You voluntarily decided to test and play the PTR.

Nothing was released to stake holders, move along.
^
Posts: 763
I'm pretty sure Blizzard also didn't test Inferno difficulty, or least very much.

You figure they would test inferno difficulty the most, given that's going to be their end game for a while.
I see Koric is still spewing his lack of knowledge about processing cycle's being that he is a programmer. Truly this world is becoming dumber by the century. However, yes i agree that Blizzard could have done better. Luckily they have such a thing as a test server to fix these things before they become commonly exploited on live servers.

Also duly noted. I am not a Blizzard fanboi and have hated Wow since the get go =) Just thought i'd point that out to the haters.
Edited by Aggravator#1995 on 10/6/2012 7:04 PM PDT
What point are you trying to make? That blizzard needs to work on getting better at catching bugs? Guess what? So does everyone else. As I've said before, LOTS of software out there have non-obscure bugs and missing features. Why call out blizzard?

Now you're complaining about bugs that havent been discovered? wtf? Talk about a circular argument.



10/06/2012 05:47 PMPosted by Cowyannker
Had they done any testing it wouldn't have made it to the PTR. It is ONE ITEM and a massive part of this patch. That is just laziness. Of course, with the way this game has been from the beginning it is obvious they aren't testing or even thinking.


They're not testing, that's why the patch is being tested in the public test realm before before it goes live... ok.
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Multiple developers can work on the same project at once with 1 of many different forms of version control. All of them properly handle merge conflicts and multiple people committing changes to 1 build.

Your "formula changed" build would be a completely separate build. QA doesn't really care how many people made changes to a specific build. In the end they just see a build number. When it's been signed off as stable then it gets sent to the PTR.

You're also forgetting a few things. The ring had "bugged" damage for multiple PTR builds and it took them weeks and weeks to announce it as a bug. If it were a legit bug it would have been announced on the day the PTR went up and fixed in the 2nd PTR build but it wasn't.


Here's the scenario I am proposing.

1) Dev works on ring and gets it stable with his testing, hits commit.
2) A few internal tests/builds go by
3) Something breaks one of the formulas for the ring
4) QA finds bug
5) Team looks at schedule and decides that the bug should just be put off as there are more important things to build/fix
6) PTR goes live
7) They build things/triage bugs in their priority queue
8) Present day: bug gets fixed with new PTR load

There's no way for us to know that it wasn't caught internally and that they just decided to ship it to the PTR anyways. And there is nothing wrong with that. They have a few hundred things the public can be testing, the numbers a proc is giving off doesn't need to fixed for them to do that.

This isn't like ToC where for it to be a bug there would have needed to be a complete breakdown in communication system on Blizzard's end. It could have been simply deemed as something to be fixed later.


If this was the case they should have told the player base that the Hellfire ring is currently doing higher damage than normal and we will be fixing it in a later PTR patch.

This did not happen. Also changing a number on an item is very minor compared to debugging something.

They have an item generator on hand. They wouldn't create each item from scratch. All that needed to be done was change the proc damage. It is nothing like you are making it out to be.
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I see Koric is still spewing his lack of knowledge about processing cycle's being that he is a programmer. Truly this world is becoming dumber by the century. However, yes i agree that Blizzard could have done better. Luckily they have such a thing as a test server to fix these things before they become commonly exploited on live servers.

Also duly noted. I am not a Blizzard fanboi and have hated Wow since the get go =) Just thought i'd point that out to the haters.


You seem to be completely missing the point of this thread as does everyone with failed reading comprehension.

The point is not that the item its self was bugged but that such a major component to the 1.05 patch was bugged for 2 weeks in the PTR with people saying it did absurd amounts of damage the first few days the PTR came out.

The problem is that they have no QA or terrible QA and how does this reflect their ability to further balance this game to make it enjoyable?
Actually i am not missing the point of thread. I have worked many years behind the scenes (hardware wise) on these type of corporate issues. Perhaps it is you who doesn't understand what PTR stands for.

As for them having no QA or terrible QA it is irrelevant due to this being a TEST server.
10/06/2012 05:42 PMPosted by Nilrem
Wow, I am astonished that this thread is still going on. It has now gone from comical to just plain sad.


Yeah, this.
10/06/2012 08:52 PMPosted by Atom
Wow, I am astonished that this thread is still going on. It has now gone from comical to just plain sad.


Yeah, this.


YES^

You guys do realize this isn't on the live game servers, right? It's on the test servers.. key word TEST. As in, that's why these servers are there, to pick up bugs just like this. Yes, it's a huge bug, it's also a bug that probably didn't present itself during whatever short term internal testing was performed.

So much pro-rage from people that obviously have no idea how complicated programming can be in a game like this.
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