Diablo® III

Blizzard, a serious word regarding meteor

Posts: 13
Ive been running a meteor build since 1.03.
At first, it was very difficult, but as a geared up it became much easier.
The casting delay was something i needed to get used to as well, but it was something that required a little bit of skill to use. And due to this casting delay, i felt that the damage and proc rate were justified. its not like an instant damage spell, and if you dont land a metoer, your survivability could be compormised.

Fast forward to 1.05
you reduce the casting delay. great. a buff.
you increase the damage. great. a buff.
you decrease the proc rate. a nerf.
now, i understand that reducing the casting delay and increaseing the damage would allow people to use meteor without a lot of apoc, max ap, and crit. that was a smart move. It would also allow more geared players with the proper gear to use molten impact and such.
However, i disagree with the way the proc rate was decreased. As much other threads say, it makes meteor useless. Not only does it not proc CM well, it does not proc APOC well either; thus, the APOC becomes useless too.

Now, i understand what your intentions were behind reducing the proc rate. You were simply trying to make it less powerful, while at the same time, accessable to every one out there. However, there are other ways to do this. For instance, increasing the cast delay to 1.5 or 1.75 seconds would be sufficient. Not only would that put the "skill" back in to the spell, but it would be enough so that its easier for people to use. On top of that, a MINOR decrease in proc rate would be acceptable. A balance would be nice. Not such a big decrease in proc rate....

Now with that said, wizards need an end game spell. Archon works well, but you must admit, gear is expensive. I was under the impression that meteor was an end game spell. it required decent gear, some "skill", and had potential to down mobs. Its not one of those spells that you can just click and run around. you have to pay attention.

On top of that, in the wizard description, its supposed to be a AOE DPS class. meteor falls in to that category perfectly.

I would rather you return meteor back to the 2 second delay and the original proc then do what youve done to it in 1.05. Its VERY doable the way it was. nothing was wrong with it imo.

Im not asking for you to buff this and buff that. Nor am i asking that you return metoer and forget this ever happened. Obviously something needs to be done with metoer, because the majority of players are not useing it at all. All i ask is that you take another look at it. Balance it if you feel its unbalanced. The reduced casting time and increased damage was a start to getting players to begin using meteor; however, reducing the proc rate was the 2 steps backward for 1 step forward approach. Less of an overall buff (casting delay and damage) would fix meteor to a point where players would use it. Recuding the proc is not the right way to go.
Edited by Tooj#1398 on 10/2/2012 6:11 PM PDT
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Meteor is so lackluster, even with 1.05's ap reduction. 50ap is half our pool, cast delay makes it a skill shot, but other classes have similar skills that cost less resource/do more damage (sometimes both)
And none of these have the cast delays:

Loaded for bear - 304% dmg and 4mini bombs that do 100% each. 50 hatred (40% of hatred)
Wall of light - 565% dmg and 45% in a line. 75 spirit (50% of spirit)
Smash(hammer of the ancients) - 406% wpn dmg and 5% increased crit chance. 20 fury (20% of fury)
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Posts: 13
i agree that other glasses have skills that are much better, but wizards arnt going to get those skills anytime soon.

with star pact rune, 35ap isnt too much. At my ap pool, i can cast 4 meteors in a row. on the 4th cast, the 1st meteor drops. which means that given the right amount of targets, my APOC takes over and a constant stream of meteors falls.
with the reduced cast delay, i can move up to molten impact, and cast 3 meteors in a row, on the 3rd cast is when the 1st meteor comes down

now thats with my gear, which in no way is godly gear. personally, i was happy with the old meteor
and that brings me back to what the original thread was talking about. Blizzard made steps in the right direction, but then took 2 steps back with the reduced proc rate.
They need to take another look at it. Im hopeing that because the new changes to meteor are on the ptr, that theyre continueing to look at it, and not just stop after twice.
Edited by Tooj#1398 on 10/2/2012 7:14 PM PDT
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Agree Strongly with OP!!!!!!!!
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I too ran meteor (since 1.04 anyway) with the knowledge that it was not as good as storm chaser, but I liked meteor. It was a fun skill, and I figured it was safe to gear for it since very few wizards used it, it was not effective without good gear and some skill, and the nerf cannon's sights were aimed at energy twister. In fact, I switched to meteor after the wicked wind nerf that came in 1.04, thinking if I used an underutilized skill and had a different build, I would be safe from the nerfs.

Obviously, as playtesting confirms, meteor in its nerfed state is inferior to energy twister in every conceivable way. In two seconds (with high attack speed) you can lay down 5-6 twisters that deal more damage, proc all your procs 5x more, and are INSTANTLY CAST. So thanks for burying my favorite build, and making me switch back to wicked wind.

Just like you, I was excited to see the buffs to meteor in 1.05, at first. Then I noticed the forum posts about how great it was. I started to worry that with the buffs, and its existing proc rate, it was going to be OP and incur a nerf in 1.06. Unfortunately, with hellfire ring's proc, the developers used that as the lode star for determining what an "appropriate" level of proc rate is for our skills. Which is find for hellfire ring, it is at a reasonable level now in PTR, except it made my favorite wizard ability a total worthless pile of dog!@#$.

Tying AP on crit to every other proc, like hellfire ring, is destroying build diversity for wizards. After I swore off energy twister in 1.03, now with the PTR nerfs I have given up and I am now using SC in 1.04 and will have to use wicked wind in 1.05 because it is the one and only viable crit mass skill. So much for build diversity.

Meteor's very high AP cost makes it a borderline skill to begin with. The fact that with enough ap on crit, meteor cost reduction, and crit chance you could generate a stream of AP with which to rain meteors down endlessly was the only redeeming quality about meteor. By tying the millstone of the hellfire ring around the wizard's neck, our proc rates are doomed. The most efficient skill for proc rates, with which a crit mass is solely concerned, is energy twister. It is not very good, in fact, the only rune that is playable is wicked wind.

Here is what the proc rate nerf means to a meteor wizard with 50% crit and 25 ap on crit:

Star Pact: Proc rate 0.05 - for every critical hit, you will receive 1.25 AP. Cost = 35 AP. Therefore you will need to hit enemies about FIFTY TIMES (considering only half of your hits are going to be critical) to pay for one cast.

All other runes: Proc rate between 0.106 and 0.12: For every critical hit, you will receive about 2.2 AP. With 50 ap cost, this means you will need to hit enemies at least FORTY SIX TIMES to pay for ONE MORE CAST.

So now for crit mass wizards (the majority of the wizard build archtypes), we will all be using one and only one skill - energy twister. The brutal nerf to meteor ensures that nobody will be able to build around it and be effective, even with billions in gear. Thanks, developers, for forcing me to go back to a build you nerfed in 1.04, just so I can regear during 1.05 to have it nerfed further in 1.06.
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Posts: 13
well said.

im considered to be the lower class of D3, sitting with 3.4m in my bank account.
i dont have unlimited money to gear and regear over and over again. in fact, i had to sacrifice AR in order to get to the dps that im at now. For me, i rely on not getting hit. the proc from meteor allows me to do so. Now with the nerfs, i cant afford to get AR gear in order to swap to a tank build. im screwed. I either go to a kite build, or quit the game. Is that what blizzard wants from us? Nerf all the classes until everyone leaves the game.
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+1.....BILLION!!

i quite happy for them to increase cost and cast delay again if only they would just leave the proc rate alone.

quite frankly the proc of this spell has not been touched since launch, why suddenly reduce it now???
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Posts: 13
i think what blizzard is doing is looking at spell stats. how much people use them. if one spell is heavily used. nerf it. if one is under used. buff it. rinse and repeat until all spells have equal useage.

take a look at all the people who have written on this post. Everyone is decently geared. Again, meteor is an end game spell, and should be treated as such. not buffed until everyone can use it, it should be kept the way it is, or very similar.
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well my gears abit on the lower end but thats cause im a casual (dedicated casual)

but i think ur right, blizzard must have released the patch notes,
saw all the wizards on the ptr "test" out the new meteor and thought to themselves

"oh no, all the wizards are gooing to choose meteor next patch because we can clearly see alot of them are using it here. lets make sure not that many will use it as to promote build diversity."

"but jay, we just buffed it, we cant take it back. think what it will do to this companies trusted reputation."

"i've got a cunning idea, well nerf it in a different way. well drop the proc Coef to almost nothing and that way we can also kill off all CM wizzies aswell. two birds with 1 stone. HAHahahahA sometimes i marvel at my own genius.

-_-"
Edited by Anthian#1571 on 10/2/2012 10:40 PM PDT
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Blizz made first stupid move I seen here. Makes no sense cuz you can't run it any gear. Not that meteors were all that b4 but now they are terrible and don't even pay for themselves or allow for spam. Broke a spec very few did for no good reason.

I could at least sympathize if they were just greedy bastards and wanted to put you in new expensive gear but that won't even work. Bad for business. Bad for diversity of wiz class.
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 10/2/2012 10:51 PM PDT
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Blizz made first stupid move I seen here. Makes no sense cuz you can't run it any gear. Not that meteors were all that b4 but now they are terrible and don't even pay for themselves or allow for spam. Broke a spec very few did for no good reason.

I could at least sympathize if they were just greedy bastards and wanted to put you in new expensive gear but that won't even work. Bad for business. Bad for diversity of wiz class.


true, i wouldnt be complaining if max Crit % plus 2/3 APoC items (i dont think i should need all 3 APoC just to get some decent AP back.)
would allow spells to pay for themselves
even if that meant i had to regear..... for the 3rd time since release.

but even regearing to the best possible gear wont allow any skill (except mayb WW) to pay for itself.

which is why im no longer sure if i want to keep playing my wiz.... or this game for that matter.
Edited by Anthian#1571 on 10/2/2012 11:33 PM PDT
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I hear ya. I'm lucky I only bought game this summer and havnt been abused enough yet to leave but I'm starting to feel it. One more I go barb full time. One more regear in that spec I leave.

It's so obvious they are running a bait and switch operation and I don't like being played in my free time. I like to play instead. With metoer not even that. Just dumb.
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 10/2/2012 11:43 PM PDT
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i tried running meteors at 53CC 2.15aspd and 16APoC.. clearly the AP regain is not enough to sustain meteoers... im going to try increasing my APoC to 30... if it is again not enough, we might as well resort back to WW...
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IAS doesnt do anything for meteors cuz they don't tick based on IAS only reason you want it is stun locking so about 1.7 is sufficient. 30 apoc is mandatory period in addition to -5 meteors and prism and I still can't get chain rolling or keep my shell up with most ruins and just barley with liquify missing a lot on singles.. Basically you can max out specs applicable to run meteors on items and runes and it's still trash. Thats a ridiculous nerf. It's not a kiting spell like say arcane orb due to massive delay in drop. And it's not a spammble spell anymore. Making it useless.
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i dont think IAS is completely useless.. IAS still affects the # of meteors you can drop per sec.. dropping 2 meteors/sec would be a huge improvement to dropping only 1.7 per sec... but yes its very costly if you use liquefy.. i guess with higher aspd, we can only use starpact.. ill try it again later.. i actually have 30APoC gear but if i wear those, my aspd and cc will drop... anyways experimenting a little more later but definitely WW >> meteors right now...

there's just now way meteors to overtake WW in any attackspeed..dmg wise meteors sucks too because even it it does high dmg, u cant spam all u want due to limited AP regain (i cant even use EB)... btw, with my 16APoC, i was also using magic weapon conduit and it helped a lot... actually ive been thinking if conduit was even helping me more than my 16APoC...
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honestly with the current coef, a meteor crit will give you 1AP if you have 10APoC
2 if you have 20 ApoC and 3 if you have 30 apoc.

so to even get 3 ap back for each crit u need to sacrifice 3 items....(helm source and weapon)

all that and max crit just to get 3 ap back each meteor? which cost 50 each....

logic?
Edited by Anthian#1571 on 10/3/2012 12:58 AM PDT
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seriously thinking if stormcrow (apoc+loh) is better than andariels (crit+aspd)...
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10/03/2012 12:57 AMPosted by Devonshire
seriously thinking if stormcrow (apoc+loh) is better than andariels (crit+aspd)...


im thinking the same thing, just remember that adding 10 APoC with only give 1 extra AP if ur meteor crits and 1 extra if they stay in the dot for the whole 3 secs.

with the crap coef, i think for now andariels is better.
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Didn't read whole thread so apologies if I've now missed the point, but:

Isn't it obvious why blizzard are 'nerfing' these skills by reducing their proc rates (and in some cases compensating with other buffs)?

They don't want the CM/WW, CM/SC, CM/Meteor build to be viable.

They don't like you spamming diamond skin and frost nova and being almost invincible.

They've made it tougher and tougher to succeed with it every patch since it started being used, might be time to wake up and smell the bacon.
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Didn't read whole thread so apologies if I've now missed the point, but:

Isn't it obvious why blizzard are 'nerfing' these skills by reducing their proc rates (and in some cases compensating with other buffs)?

They don't want the CM/WW, CM/SC, CM/Meteor build to be viable.

They don't like you spamming diamond skin and frost nova and being almost invincible.

They've made it tougher and tougher to succeed with it every patch since it started being used, might be time to wake up and smell the bacon.


im happy for them to remove frost nova altogether
i personally dont care as i dont perma freeze.

im just asking for our Loh to heal us and APoC to give me AP.

there are other ways to fix cm perma freeze,

i just dont want to lose half my healing and AP gain because they cant find a better way to fix perma freeze or are too much of a coward to admit they want CM removed.
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