Diablo® III

Blizzard, a serious word regarding meteor

10/03/2012 02:24 PMPosted by ZaM
Everyone who is complaining about nerf to APOC and wanting every spell to be free should realise there are signature spells for a reason.. There are a whole set of spells that are not as good as otehrs but are free to use when arcane power is down (which is how it should be). Learn to use a signature spell instead of wanting to just explode things non stop. People want a challenge but then they want to be able to kill everything in one second with never running out of AP. Games too easy as it is, I love nerfs.


Barb: Can run with almost no use of fury generating skills
Monk: Can run with almost (or none at all) use of spirit generating skills
DH: Can almost spam discipline skills with 1.03 nats, can get enough hatred regen to pretty much spam most hatred-cost spells (but DH has an advantage of having amazing hatred generating skills which wizard doesn't)
Wizard: Can almost non-AP costing skills? NERF NERF NERF


Well then the issue is with the other characters, But I havn't really played anything else so just talking about the wizards.
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I almost cant handle all this crap to be honest.
Ive enjoyed playing but i feel with every patch it gets worse for the wizard.

Ill take a look at the patch, if its to much then ill have to give up.
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A history of wizard gameplay: Find the highest proc, play it till it is nerfed, rinse, repeat.

Living lightning is too good because CM - nerf
Spectral blades is too good because CM - nerf
WW is too good because CM - nerf
SC is too good because CM - nerf
Spectral blades is too good (again)because CM - nerf
Meteor is too good because CM - nerf

STOP. Please STOP.

CM is too good because of Frost Nova, that is the root of the problem

SO NERF FROST NOVA to be a chill instead of a freeze and return our proc rates on the half dozen nerfs.


this.

facepalm @ blizzards 'adjustments'


Either this, or change CM. But you are right, obviously adjusting every spells coefficient is a fail
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Come on Vaeflare.... I get that you are trying to appease the hords of angry gamers and I can respect that, but...your post is just contradicting all the things that have been preached at us over the last couple of months. These nerfs are just stupid. There really isn't any other word for it. Stupid decisions made from the top on down. You seriously can't support all of these decisions unless you blues just hate the game and honestly enjoy ruining it for other people.
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10/03/2012 01:35 PMPosted by Vaeflare
Efficiency is good, but there needs to a balance.


EXCUSE ME ?? Is that a joke ?? Is that what you call balance ? Oh please !

What you are doing here is NOT balance, you are just KILLING every viable build wizards have. Not only permafreeze, but also archon.

If you have a problem with permafreeze, just nerf the !@#$ing frost nova and let the other wizards enjoy the game, is that too hard to do and not just nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf every wizard to the ground every time, every patch ?

And you call that too efficient ? And what about BARBS ? Are they not too efficient ? WW through everything with the speed of light just facerolling the game, but it deserves no balance ? Come on....
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10/03/2012 02:30 PMPosted by BadMartigan
Come on Vaeflare.... I get that you are trying to appease the hords of angry gamers and I can respect that, but...your post is just contradicting all the things that have been preached at us over the last couple of months. These nerfs are just stupid. There really isn't any other word for it. Stupid decisions made from the top on down. You seriously can't support all of these decisions unless you blues just hate the game and honestly enjoy ruining it for other people.


That's exactly what bothers me about her post because what she said contradicts what Wyatt said in the CC post (that permafreeze does not bother Blizz).
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I just feel wizards in particular for whatever reason are being balanced by the top 20 wizards with stupid amounts of CC and APS and 2 billion worth of gear. Otherwise I don't know where the 100% CC comment came from, cuz for 99% of us that simply isn't true.

I call it like I see it, there is NO reason whatsoever to decline the proc rates of energy twister by 60%, meteor by 25 to 60% and a ton of spectral blade base and rune nerfs.

Based off recent adjustments it's almost like you think all of us will be walking around with 3 aps and 55% CC. Now if you're improving legendaries to roll 63 affixes then maybe just maaaybe I can see that. If not then why is our class being adjusted like EVERYONE is the top 1% of the class? That only hurts the 99% while making the 1% that has 1-2 billion worth of gold seem 'just okay'. They should walk around like gods not feel 'oh ok , this works'. That's a total cop out!


THIS!

I never have 100% CC on elites, and only sometimes on trash when there are dozens and they die fast anyways. The history of Wiz nerfs is some ahole who bought his char making a vid on youtube, and then outcrys on forums, then bam nerf till useless.

Everything about not wanting proc from Legendaries is pure BS too. Almost all legendaries proc on attack and have nothing to do with proc coeff.

I wouldn't care if they buffed all other classes to the point that wizard was worst, as long as I dont get nerfed to the ground so that I can no longer play and have fun with my gear/build.

Don't nerf trail of cinders, dont nerf monk/baba defensives, dont nerf WD, dont nerf double tornado barbs. All the other classes cry for wiz nerfs for some reason. I say buff everyone. Game is supposed to be fun.

Fact is, I roll in a party and help CC for people who might not be able to survive repair bills if I wasnt around. That promotes build diversity because without me, they would not play at all! I've played in groups with JUST WW Barbs. Not fun.

Don't do it Blizz. Don't nerf all our coeffs like this. I don't wanna be an Archon wiz, and I'm certainly not going back to Blizz/Hydra. What I am supposed to do with 29 APOC?
Edited by Soulflay#1313 on 10/3/2012 2:36 PM PDT
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That said, skill synergy isn’t where we want it to be for wizards at the moment, and we’re looking at ways to improve that for the future. The sort of changes we’d like to do are more involved than simple numbers-tuning, though, and they weren’t able to make it in with this patch.


Great, so I can forget playing my Wiz in 1.0.5. It's cool though, I needed a break from the game.
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Wow the wizard is so screwed in 1.05! I'm done!
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guess i quit soon to if i cant play my wiz.....what a waste of so much time.
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While the proc coefficient on Meteor and its runes is indeed being nerfed, this change really should be viewed within the full context of the patch. Patch 1.0.5 not only introduces numerous crowd control improvements. Combined with the Meteor’s lowered AP cost and decreased delay between cast and impact, these changes made it so Meteor was more appealing to everyone, which is fine. But they also made the skill extremely efficient (in fact: too efficient) to get Critical Mass procs and 100% CC uptime. Efficiency is good, but there needs to a balance. The skill is still very strong, so the tuning on its proc coefficients will hardly trivialize Meteor builds, and we anticipate that it will be brought back to roughly where it is currently in patch 1.0.4.

That said, skill synergy isn’t where we want it to be for wizards at the moment, and we’re looking at ways to improve that for the future. The sort of changes we’d like to do are more involved than simple numbers-tuning, though, and they weren’t able to make it in with this patch. But are we absolutely working on them.


Thanks Vaeflare for the info, but please relay the voice of the community back to the developers.

Don't nerf the popular skills so drastically. Nerf them a little bit only, and buff the less popular skills a little bit. This is how you achieve balance.
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10/03/2012 01:35 PMPosted by Vaeflare
That said, skill synergy isn’t where we want it to be for wizards at the moment, and we’re looking at ways to improve that for the future. The sort of changes we’d like to do are more involved than simple numbers-tuning, though, and they weren’t able to make it in with this patch. But are we absolutely working on them.


Watch out guys, sounds like they're cooking up more nerfs! I'm sorry, but all these nerfs even before 1.0.4 are bs. So many bugs that existed when the game came out are still here despite being posted by many... what's worse is you guys promised buffs with 1.0.4 only to take two steps back with the nerfs coming down the pipe.
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That said, skill synergy isn’t where we want it to be for wizards at the moment, and we’re looking at ways to improve that for the future. The sort of changes we’d like to do are more involved than simple numbers-tuning, though, and they weren’t able to make it in with this patch. But are we absolutely working on them.

More nerfs are coming!!
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All I got from Vaelflare's post was a big "!@#$ you all."

Thanks. I really appreciate it. Especially since patches usually take what, a month or two to come out.

I could re-roll barb, but I'd lose my paragon levels. So no thanks. I guess I'm out of this game for a few months. Or for good, a lot of other good games coming out.

We'll have to wait and see.
Edited by Ananta#2201 on 10/3/2012 2:52 PM PDT
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I still cant emphasize enough that please, for the love of god and all that is holy dont nerf coefficients, (they are called like that because they affect MANY things) nerf the wazoo out of the CM passive or even better frost nova.

That is the thing you guys obviously have a problem with, yet your coefficient nerfs FORCE us to somehow make the 100% CC time possible instead of allowing true build diversity. AND we finally could get some GEAR DIVERSITY instead of beeing totally shoehorned into one spec and one "ultimate" gear setup.

With the patchnotes as they are masses will either reroll into something that is "easier", switch to archon or just plain quit. If thats your goal, then congratulations, the patch can hit right away.
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You don't want us permanently freezing stuff, that's fine, we get that but this "fix" for it is extremely bland and unimaginative and detrimental to the Wizard class. Promising changes to skills to mix things up further down the line is nice but it's a tune we've heard before and it starts to ring with a sour note after a while.

Also, using the word efficient to describe a spec that is considered anything but (especially with Archon Wizards and Whirlwind Barbs still running around) was probably a big mistake, as shown by the comments that followed your post
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All I hear is "what blizzard wants

" and bla bla bla and we'll nerf you even more in future!
Edited by Fairyfloss#6824 on 10/3/2012 2:58 PM PDT
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While the proc coefficient on Meteor and its runes is indeed being nerfed, this change really should be viewed within the full context of the patch. Patch 1.0.5 not only introduces [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/7155884/Developer_Journal_Defensive_Bonuses_and_Monster_Damage-9_14_2012"]changes to defensive bonuses and monster damage[/url], but also the Monster Power system, and [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/7100052/Developer_Journal_Crowd_Control_Changes-9_5_2012"]numerous crowd control improvements[/url]. Combined with the Meteor’s lowered AP cost and decreased delay between cast and impact, these changes made it so Meteor was more appealing to everyone, which is fine. But they also made the skill extremely efficient (in fact: too efficient) to get Critical Mass procs and 100% CC uptime. Efficiency is good, but there needs to a balance. The skill is still very strong, so the tuning on its proc coefficients will hardly trivialize Meteor builds, and we anticipate that it will be brought back to roughly where it is currently in patch 1.0.4.

That said, skill synergy isn’t where we want it to be for wizards at the moment, and we’re looking at ways to improve that for the future. The sort of changes we’d like to do are more involved than simple numbers-tuning, though, and they weren’t able to make it in with this patch. But are we absolutely working on them.


Adjusting all wizard proc coefficients downward due to critical mass is terrible design. You have barbarians with skills like bash, cleave, frenzy, hammer of the ancients, weapon throw, etc with 70% or 100% proc coefficients. Other classes are able to enjoy legendary item procs and affixes such as life on hit significantly more than the wizard. There is a serious problem with most wizard proc coefficients capping at no more than 20%, and many are much much lower, especially in consideration of stuff like the hellfire ring proc that apparently deals so much damage that only two things matter: attack speed and proc coefficient. The fact that attack speed drains the wizard's resources faster (while providing increased resource generation to other classes) compounds this issue further.

Balancing skills within a class is one thing, but you can't ignore balance compared across classes. You have stuff like glass cannon providing a 15% damage boost with a 10% armor and resist penalty, while barbs and demon hunters have a passive that provides a 15% damage boost (or 10% crit chance, which is even better and can amount to an over 40% damage boost) without any penalty whatsoever. As the above example demonstrates, there are clear equity problems even without considering proc coefficients. When you add abysmal coefficients on top of that, across the board, the wizard is in a bad place. It just confounds me that aoe skills like rend have a proc coefficient of 33% while blizzard's is 2%. Yes, there is a problematic synergy between coefficients, critical mass, diamond skin, and frost nova. But can't you find a better solution than capping all their coefficients at values that are 5x lower than other classes?
Edited by Vhlad#1388 on 10/3/2012 2:56 PM PDT
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10/03/2012 02:31 PMPosted by Al3XD
Efficiency is good, but there needs to a balance.


EXCUSE ME ?? Is that a joke ?? Is that what you call balance ? Oh please !

What you are doing here is NOT balance, you are just KILLING every viable build wizards have. Not only permafreeze, but also archon.

And you call that too efficient ? And what about BARBS ? Are they not too efficient ? WW through everything with the speed of light just facerolling the game, but it deserves no balance ? Come on....

+1.
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