Diablo® III

Blizzard, a serious word regarding meteor

Hey it could be worse I suppose. Eventually in D2 they got sick of balancing just made 50% of the monsters completely immune to sorc spells.
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After reading the Blues response I can say if thr patch goes live with the current nerfs on, I wont waste anymore time for the next patch to come. Blizzard wants the Wizard players to play with a tank, or reroll to Barb. So much for build diversity
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10/03/2012 01:35 PMPosted by Vaeflare
But they also made the skill extremely efficient (in fact: too efficient) to get Critical Mass procs and 100% CC uptime. Efficiency is good, but there needs to a balance.


This statement encapsulates this team's design philosophy and emphasizes perfectly why this game will never be as good as Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 were.

They can't stand any build or strategy that "trivializes" the content. In other words "you can't be TOO powerful." This pretty much goes against the basic concept of a Diablo game at its most fundamental core... what's the point of "building a character up", working hard to level them up and perfect their gear.. when you are meant to be feel weak and the gameplay should be a struggle.

There can only be one reason for this.. the game is designed to not feel fun unless you have the best of the best gear... and furthermore the game is designed so that you can't get the best of the best gear without spending money on the RMAH.

Now, one of the ways they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes is with Monster Power. "Well, now we've given the diablo fans that enjoy trivializing the content a way to do that. Just use Monster Power 0. Now you can get good rewards and have an easy experience."

Problem is, the rewards for higher Monster Power levels are so significant, that the game kinda-sorta forces you to play in those modes, thus retaining the REQUIREMENT for top-top gear and RMAH $pending.

In an interview Jay Wilson said he didn't want players to feel that Monster Power was a mountain they HAD to climb.. but that is a boldfaced lie since as we can very clearly see, all of the balance changes are being made with consideration to Monster Power. If Monster Power wasn't MEANT to be the most desirable mode of play, then the balance changes wouldn't revolve around it, plain and simple.

I know for one I've seen enough.. I won't be playing Diablo 3 in 1.0.5.. this team has just shown me that the game they want to make is not the game I want to play. It's just not fun.

It's punitive. It feels more like crappy real life with the government constantly taking more of our liberties away. No game design team should have these types of restrictions and philosophies on its player base.. it's a GAME.. it's supposed to be FUN. They are literally telling you "well you can't have TOO much fun.. we have to scale it back and balance everything."

So I guess a line is being drawn in the sand.. they are no longer being candid about it.. they're not being 100% honest but they're being much less discreet now.. the message is loud and clear "don't have too much fun, or we shall nerf you." Since this line has been drawn, players will have a clear choice before them.

Stop playing the game, or accept that every few weeks or so you'll have to adapt new playstyles and possibly new equipment choices as they continue to "balance" (read: nerf) the game with every subsequent patch.
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Doesn't it seem much too stressful to be living under a nerf-threat daily? I mean it is a GAME! Not a job or anything.

Blizzard, you better step back and rethink about what Diablo 3 is; a game for relaxation and entertainment or some scheme designed to force players into RMAH purchases in order to continue "getting their highs" after every patch/nerf.
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its about damn time they admit they just dont want wizards permafreezing shib... claiming it was legend procs o.O
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if you don't want perma freeze, then fix perma freeze, don't nerf our LOH, APOC, DPS

because nerfing proc coefficients nerfs loh, apoc, dps. we don't really care about cc procs. in fact, you can just give us our skill procs back and make it such that ALL legendaries proc abilities do not proc in the hands of a wizard. who the heck cares about andy's nova, wizardspike is rubbish due to loh/lifesteal/docket and so forth.

after a freeze ends, you immediately get a 0.5 second buff so that you can guarantee a 0.5 second to 1 seconds gap in between freezes = tada, no more perma freeze even if you can achieve 3.0 aps/60% cc.

alternatively, get rid of frost nova altogether.

change it to flame nova, electric nova or arcane nova. and modify runes accordingly so that we don't freeze anymore.
Edited by chrisloup#6305 on 10/3/2012 8:02 PM PDT
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While the proc coefficient on Meteor and its runes is indeed being nerfed, this change really should be viewed within the full context of the patch. Patch 1.0.5 not only introduces [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/7155884/Developer_Journal_Defensive_Bonuses_and_Monster_Damage-9_14_2012"]changes to defensive bonuses and monster damage[/url], but also the Monster Power system, and [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/7100052/Developer_Journal_Crowd_Control_Changes-9_5_2012"]numerous crowd control improvements[/url]. Combined with the Meteor’s lowered AP cost and decreased delay between cast and impact, these changes made it so Meteor was more appealing to everyone, which is fine. But they also made the skill extremely efficient (in fact: too efficient) to get Critical Mass procs and 100% CC uptime. Efficiency is good, but there needs to a balance. The skill is still very strong, so the tuning on its proc coefficients will hardly trivialize Meteor builds, and we anticipate that it will be brought back to roughly where it is currently in patch 1.0.4.

That said, skill synergy isn’t where we want it to be for wizards at the moment, and we’re looking at ways to improve that for the future. The sort of changes we’d like to do are more involved than simple numbers-tuning, though, and they weren’t able to make it in with this patch. But we are absolutely working on them.


You nerfed what was basically a novelty spell. Why don't you actually look at how many players use the spell? If it's SOOOOO POWERFUL why does no one use it in its current state?

You're so worried about some non-existent imbalance with our class that you like a whirlwind barb face-tacking mp8+ monters run by with a slap on the wrist.

I hope you realize a lot of people are going to quit playing this class now.
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10/03/2012 07:55 PMPosted by Psycho
its about damn time they admit they just dont want wizards permafreezing shib... claiming it was legend procs o.O


Yeah you got to give them small credit for being somewhat honest.. now if only they'd admit that Wyatt Cheng's original reasoning of the legendary procs was indeed a lie, and explain why they told us this lie... did they maybe want to sugar coat it? Fool us.. they think we're dumb enough to believe stupid reasons..?? I'm curious..

Go on Mr. Transparency, tell us why you lied to us :]
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Problem is, the rewards for higher Monster Power levels are so significant, that the game kinda-sorta forces you to play in those modes, thus retaining the REQUIREMENT for top-top gear and RMAH $pending.


No they aren't. They are actually insignificant. Show me with math....
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Wohh I am surprised this thread got so many post in so little time. But I am afraid some posts turns out to be kinda "hatred" oriented... We need more "discipline" guys ! (I cannot believe I made that joke : now I have to watch an entire season of "Little House on the Prairie" to clean my mind)

Allright let's try to stick to the subject now. This thread is fallowed by a dev so we need to keep it clean and constructive.

I believe meteor was visually appealing on diablo ii. You thrown it and everything burned. The area of effect was huge and it was great on a meteor/fireball sorceress. The spell was spamable because of warmth.

While fireball trigger a hit animation on mob the meteor had time to land. I don't believe you get this kinda of gameplay on diablo III. On the other hand others classes get way better version of meteor in their kit... Hey we are supposed to be the wizard ! give us our meteor back ! Even rain of toad feels more efficient (and fun, and visually appealing) now :'(. And it does not cost near as much as meteor.

rain of toad : proc scallar : 0.5 [1/2] 4 time over 2 second (for one cast) cast approximatively 2 time faster than a normal attack does not really cost mana imediate landing deal 130% of weapon damage.
meteor : proc scalar : 0.25 [1/4] 4 time over 3 second (3 dot tick over 3 second + 1 impact) for one cast. Cast are as fast than a normal attack cost more than half of our resources pool (6/10) deal 260% weapon damage. 2 second landing.

Hum... I don't know what to choose... let's calculate the average number of proc per second !
rain of toad equal to your number of attack speed per second so if you have 2.00 attack speed like a twister wizard you get an average of 2 proc per second per monster hit ! 160% paper doll weapon damage per second. 12 mana per cast (48 mana per second - 45 mana regen per second - bonus mana regen)
meteor 1/3 per second per monster hit. 107% paper doll weapon damage per second. 60 arcane power (35 with star pact - 2 ap regen per second - 1/3 * ap on crit * monster hit per second - bonus ap regen)
Huh.... I guess I am going to choose rain of toad ! sincerely I hope I missed something because now that I made the calculation rain of toad seems so op on a wizard perspective.

Let's be more serious ! Rain of toad is on the WD kit wich is made for people with less attack per second than wizard at the moment. If a WD get 2.00 attacks per second that is because he already overkill his/her other damage stats. let's face it you cannot really sustain WD mana cost with a high number of attack per second. BUT I hope I made my point !

Like Vaeflare said I believe the real problem is not proc scalar but the fact that every wizards (me included) feels forced to use one or two build (and some variation). It does not feel like a choice !

Everybody that put a little of his/her emotion on his/her wizard would have change to propose to "fix" the wizard. As a matter of fact I also do have some proposition in my mind ! Apparently however that is not the subject of the patch so I will keep them for myself until maybe sometime : we are asked directly or indirectly to be creative.
Edited by Guybrush#2456 on 10/3/2012 8:44 PM PDT
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As I predicted back on page 4 or whatever, no further comments from blizzard. Stay classy blues.
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I used to play a Wizard and I play all the time with the OP.

I switched to a Monk (horrible choice but different discussion) for a very specific reason:

Wizards have incredible potential for build diversity (compared to other classes), but this diversity is predicated on skills like Critical Mass. An example of a skill that requires significant dedication to buy specific gear that makes it work well.

Players like Tooj have invested a lot of gold to make a specific build work. So despite having build diversity, many wizards may actually feel locked into their current builds. After witnessing nerf after nerf after nerf to the core mechanics that made specific builds work, I could no longer invest time and gold into the Wizard class. It is constantly re-tuned around other builds that requires other gear.

Case in point: Tooj went for dps and crit and sacrificed AR. His entire build is dependant on having Diamond Skin and Teleport up.

After reading most of this thread and the blue response, I honestly believe Blizzard just doesn't GET it. They have implied that at current difficulty levels, the buff to crowd control mechanics have justified the "balancing" of skills like Critical Mass (read: nerf the proc coefficient).

I have tested the Wizard on the PTR at various MP levels with Tooj's build (same skills; crit and dps focused with no AR). It isn't easy. You have to perfectly manage the placement of your meteors and the timing of your Teleport/Diamond Skin. Or you're dead. Instantly.

I tested the build with frost nova. It's almost insulting how much of a gimmick frost nova feels like when Blizzard wants to make CC more appealing. First, you have to reliably freeze all mobs. Second, you have to survive until it's back up. There are many situations where I found myself without DS, FN, or Teleport between cool-downs. At the 1.05 proc coefficient, the CC (frost nova) does not make up for the nerf. Higher MP levels exacerbates this effect.

So what was my impression? "Oh! Man I need more AR and armour to survive. Or more attack speed to get more procs. But waaaaitttt.... wouldn't it be great if I had everything..."

My point is that nerfing the proc coefficient was not the answer. Blizzard, if you're really working on this, then please do your best to make the necessary changes before 1.05 hits.

What you're essentially doing is making people gear and re-gear until we realize that there are no alternative strategies to gearing; in other words, we need to invest in gear with every single stat. Is that the strategy? We all need high crit, high dps, high AR, high armour, and high attack speed to feel like we can run any build and protect ourselves from your blitz of nerfs.
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10/03/2012 01:49 PMPosted by Cataca

Then nerf Critical Mass. When you nerf the proc, it's not just CM is affected. It significantly reduce LoH and APoC as well. The fact that we wizard get half the LoH that of any other class is just wrong.


This. Nerf critical mass by 50% and restore old procs, or even better nerf it by 75% and boost coefficients by that margin. As it is you kill our synergies with other skills (storm armor/poison weapon/apoc/loh) are totally ruined for something most people dont actually WANT to use, but are forced to.

Yes, thats right, the proc coeficcients FORCE us to use the cheese 100% frost nova uptime instead of giving build diversity, something you said was your priority.


Directly nerfing CM would be the common sense thing to do: can't have that.
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10/03/2012 01:41 PMPosted by Akronnis
ut they also made the skill extremely efficient (in fact: too efficient) to get Critical Mass procs and 100% CC uptime

Then nerf Critical Mass. When you nerf the proc, it's not just CM is affected. It significantly reduce LoH and APoC as well. The fact that we wizard get half the LoH that of any other class is just wrong.


This. If Critical Mass is the problem, nerf Critical Mass. Not the coefficients that other things go off of as well - because you just nerfed those as well.
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Too efficient! Like WW/Sprint is too efficient.

D3 dev team, maybe you should have calculated the maximum crit% you can gear and realize, like you did with attack speed, that there is too much of it. Now you nerf every skill-rune to oblivion and anyone with a non-crit build is having a sh*ttier experience. You might aswell save us time and announce the nerf of the sweeping wind's rune cyclone.

IS ANYONE DRIVING THIS CAR?
Edited by SpaceMonkey#1801 on 10/3/2012 9:01 PM PDT
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we anticipate that it will be brought back to roughly where it is currently in patch 1.0.4.



Which is to say, roughly nonexistent?
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Posts: 12
The reason to these nerfs is so simple. Blizzard test teams, being the devs, Can make any gears drop for them at any time. And those gears will only roll the highest possible number on each and every stats. So when they test the game on their own, they have the highest possible dps, defense, CC, C.damage, etc. (you get the picture)

In short, they are in god mode, that's why everything seen so easy for them. It also justify why they think Wiz is too powerful, since they test their characters in god mode.

Fellow Wizards, if you want to get close to god mode? well, spend money to buy gold in RMAH.

Blizzard, being the devs and all, has unlimited supplies of gold. They can fuel their own gold into the RMAH, so players can just buy it from them (while thinking it is from some gold farmer or other honest players). AH don't show who is selling, so that's perfect spot to setup a constant stream of income for company.

From a business stand point, that's a great way to make money.

However, to keep a steady stream of income, you need demand. In fact the more demand, the better, because it means more profit. So to increase the demand, let's nerf something, so players will need to gear up. Yes some player will quit, but some will stay and among those some will open up their wallet and spend more money to buy gold from the biggest gold seller in RMAH, also know as Blizzard (but players won't know it is them, because you can't seel who it was selling)

We gotta hand it to Blizzard, the RMAH is such amazing idea to make moneys off players. In many MMOs there are premium shops where you spend money to get items that makes game easier. Sadly D3 isn't a MMO, so RMAH is where real money comes from.

GAH, has an amazing setup too. Reason is the 15% gold tax. They do it not because they afraid of player from having too much gold, it is because they need some way to control the amount of available gold in the whole community. By having a ways to get rid of gold, they can prevent and slow down the inflation rate on the gold they sell on RMAH.

In short, to all players, please remember, Blizzard is a business. what does business want to see? At each quarter their profit is increasing. Players having fun or not, doesn't matter to all those investors. they just want a bigger number appearing on their bank account and stocks.
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I couldn't get into meteor but it's quite sad reading the approach that Blizzard is making to the wizards. It seems to be a thing where they're willing to overnerf and then sort it out later. The problem is while many are screaming Armageddon every day, I sincerely believe they're close enough to the tipping point as to potentially run all the wizards off. There's just no viable builds left for the mediocre wizards.

I tried PTR for a couple hours then proceeded to go back to 1.04 and play it as much as I can before the next patch hits. Nothing in 1.05 intrigues me so it may be my end. At the very least, it will be with my wizard.
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I love meteors, even with my cheap gear my build is around it and electrocute.

The AP cost and cast delay makes them a fun spell if you have the skill to use them, if you have a problem with these two things then this spell isn't for you.

I for one am happy the proc is being nerfed, surely a spam build is an efficient build but if I wanted efficiency I'd go direct to the Action House with my credit card, no thanks.

This has propably already been said but if you want to use this spell learn to tie it to other skills and earn the AP for it, getting it for free is hardly an accomplishment.

Havent heard too many people in favor of this nerf but im sure im not alone in not wanting to see yet another Spam build.

So from someone who uses it: yes nerf the Proc, the AP drop and cast time reduction are great improvements for players wanting to have fun with this spell and are not looking for exploits.

Cheers.
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