Diablo® III

Wicked Wind Tick Rate and Breakpoints

^LoH is better because the damage from ET is abysmal, and your main source of life recovery is ET. So yeah, LoH > LS. Just increase your LoH until Reflect is no more a problem. It's the faster way to combat Reflect compared to increasing mitigation, until you get like 1.5k LoH, then improving mitigation is better.

Also more AR is you do CM.
Hey guys, I'm trying to gear up my Wizard and admittedly, I'm finding it pretty difficult financially. What I'm wondering is, at what attack speed will I be able to solo mid size targets? I can somewhat handle big guys like Golgors and groups of enemies at 1.8 aps (with a Chantodo, not the wand I have equipped), but for smaller single targets I let the rest of my group handle them.

What happens when I reach 2.8aps? Instant cooldown?
Edited by toastyToast#6810 on 10/22/2012 3:15 AM PDT
Hey guys, I'm trying to gear up my Wizard and admittedly, I'm finding it pretty difficult financially. What I'm wondering is, at what attack speed will I be able to solo mid size targets? I can somewhat handle big guys like Golgors and groups of enemies at 1.8 aps (with a Chantodo, not the wand I have equipped), but for smaller single targets I let the rest of my group handle them.

What happens when I reach 2.8aps? Instant cooldown?


I just got above 2.74 yesterday and am able to solo most single targets at MP5 and still have to chase some of them around a bit. I have found it useful to try and pull a whole room over to single target elites and get them killed as fast as possible. You will still have trouble no matter what you do with freeze, teleport elites and elites that run away. There is no perma freeze period. It is up to you, I had 140k dps before and only had to switch out like 3/4 pieces of gear to do CM/WW and it cost me abour 350m to be able to do it right.

Even at my gear level I find it is not efficient to farm any higher than about mp5/6 but my resitances are low too.
I tried alot times 29 APOC today vs 19APOC but 2.74atk speed and 29APOC is really superior. I can survive mp10 ghom with 29apoc but not with 19APOC. I see many times my wicked wind greyed because out of arcane power but NEVER with 29APOC.
@toastyToast: It's not instant cool-down, but it's very fast ap regeneration. As Shandlar said on the previous page, "[t]he issue is having adaquate APoC." To make the CW/WW build work, you really need stable AP. If you're struggling and don't have the finances to make 2.7aps immediately, don't give up in frustration. Just try to keep improving your speed to the next breakpoint. Typically, you'll notice the difference at each breakpoint as your APoC and LoH will definitely appear stronger.

And if adequate APoC is a severe issue for you, Diamond Skin (Prism) can take off some of the heat. It's definitely a crutch, as Diamond Shards and Crystal Shell are ultimately better choices, but I think it's better to play at lower MP difficulties (for lower monster damage) and get a consistent stutterfreeze going. Then just keep improving your gear, so you can advance to the higher MP levels. For example, with 2.31 aps, 18 APoC, and Diamond Skin (Prism), I can reliably tank a single target with stutterfreeze in MP5. It's not 2.74 aps, but it works. And there's no way I'd be able to do this if I wasn't using Diamond Skin (Prism) for APoC and compensating with a lot of LoH (effectively 1200LoH from 600 LoH+3% LifeSteal). I've actually tried 2.74 aps and 50% cc, but have shied away from it, since I sacrificed way too much LoH/All Resist/Armor. Instead I'm just gonna slowly make the right upgrades to make the 2.5 breakpoint, and then on to 2.74.
I'm not sure if you ever nailed down the formula for this, but here you go:
frames_per_attack = floor(30 / attacks_per_second)
tick_rate = ceil(360 / frames_per_attack)


Great work Voltara. I posted a link to your post in the EU proc list thread so everybody heard the great new :)

It is really great to have a working formula for wicked wind but it would be even greater if we were able to find a formula that work for every ticking spell. For that matter it itched me that 360/30 is equal to 12 which is equal to the duration of WW 6 second multiplied by the speed coef of wicked wind : 2 (the coef of the minimum #tick linear curve).

however the breackpoints for run like the wind tornadoes are not calculated properly if you replace 360 by 270... mhh....

For run like the wind the algorithms seems to be more like :

frames_per_attack = floor(20 / attacks_per_second)
tick_rate = ceil(180 / frames_per_attack)


and 180/20 is 9 wich is also the duration of RLtW tornado (3 second) time the speed coef (9). I wander how the 20|30 is sorted by the game... 60/speedCoef ? 60 being the number of second in a minute it could make sense right ?

So the algorithm should be something like :

frames_per_attack = floor((60/Speedcoef) / attacks_per_second)
tick_rate = ceil((60*Duration) / frames_per_attack)


Ok that is said I will tested it !

[EDIT : that could explain why archon ray attack seems to tick more for some people when canceling and recasting it. They just hit a breackpoint by playing with the duration instead of toying with the attack per second. I remember Blatty asking if someone actually know something about it on his stream.]
Edited by Guybrush#2456 on 10/22/2012 6:53 PM PDT
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10/22/2012 07:39 AMPosted by einsteinz
I tried alot times 29 APOC today vs 19APOC but 2.74atk speed and 29APOC is really superior. I can survive mp10 ghom with 29apoc but not with 19APOC. I see many times my wicked wind greyed because out of arcane power but NEVER with 29APOC.


Thats cuz your crit is low. takes both high crit and ias to make 20 apoc work. most high end CM's run 20 cuz they want good helm like Mempo or talrash.
is there any formula to determine what is the better thing to upgrade?

right now I'm at
Attacks per Second 2.002
Critical Hit Chance 44%

----
gear
http://d3up.com/b/22054

right now, I can marginally increase cc
eg: rings from 9% ias, 4.5% cc to (9% ias, 5.5/6.0 cc)
amulets (9% ias, 7%cc to 9%ias 10%cc)

or increase attack speed
glove (7% ias, 10% cc) to (9% ias, 10% cc)
bracers: lacuni (gain ias, but lose plenty of ehp)
chest: (tal rasha chest: impossible to find at decent prices with high
regen)
source: (8.5% cc, 10apoc ) to chantodo source with (9% ias, 9.5+cc, 8+apoc)

---
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6794871641


No Ench \ ias \ Attack Speed \ Tick rate
current \ 1.43 \ 2.002 \ 26
Source \ 1.52 \ 2.128 \ 26
Glove \ 1.45 \ 2.03 \ 26
S+G+C \ 1.54 \ 2.156 \ 26
S+C \ 1.61 \ 2.254 \ 26
S+C+G \ 1.63 \ 2.282 \ 28

Enchantress \ ias \ Attack Speed \ Tick rate
current \ 1.46 \ 2.044 \ 26
Source \ 1.55 \ 2.17 \ 28
Glove \ 1.48 \ 2.072 \ 26
S+G+C \ 1.57 \ 2.198 \ 28
S+C \ 1.64 \ 2.296 \ 28
S+C+G \ 1.66 \ 2.324 \ 30



so conclusions:
a) scoundrel should be better than enchantress at 2.002 attack speed, since 2.044 attack speed doesn't go past any breakpoints.

b) enchantress + 9% ias chantodo will break the 2.1587 barrier to 28 ticks. (as well as any other upgrades)

--
so my upgrade path should be
a) chantodo source for inproved ias + crit chance
b) upgrade rings and amulets for (loh, cc)
c) getting a tal rasha chest 9% ias after that will then let me change back to
d) upgrade glove last

right?
Edited by chrisloup#6305 on 10/22/2012 11:54 PM PDT
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id actually say get tal chest last, for the same price as a ar, armor tal chest i bought my chants set
its pretty pricey cause it usually rolls 8% atk spd
i know for me its my last purchase
u may want to consider getting a storm crow with an open socket or all resist or cc depending on what ur budget is
as it has a decent chunk of loh to make up for loh ud be loosing from ur weapon
You are correct on every point. Items dont always come along in the order in which is most ideal however. I would still look for the tals chest several times a day so a good 'snipe' doesn't pass you by. My buddy got one just like mine (a bit more armour/resist, a bit less vit) for only 300m 1d11h.

Deals are out there.
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thats true im on the lookout for one of those tals chest (at a bargain price), but for chrisloup id say he should prioritize chants set first, as its a tons of atk spd (if he goes the ias chants will route), and itll cost less than the tals chest
Edited by SteelPhantom#1820 on 10/23/2012 12:10 AM PDT
thanks. looking out. also chants sources are more plentiful. finding a tal chest with > 500 regen (for that matter 300 regen is already in the crazy 1b+ range). any way I got lucky with a IK helm drop yesterday, so enough to manage a decent +5k more dps chant source ..
^We use LoH to regenerate 15k+ life per second, why would you waste your time on a 500 life per second tals chest?
^Agreed I used to run 2k regen, now I have 2k LOH - still have some regen (just worked out) but with increased att speed the LOH is AMAZING ...
@Shandlar :
Your blackthornes ammy would look nicer on my wizard I think :-P

I'm not sure if you ever nailed down the formula for this, but here you go:
frames_per_attack = floor(30 / attacks_per_second)
tick_rate = ceil(360 / frames_per_attack)


Here's a table of APS vs Tick Rate breakpoints calculated from the above formula:


You are my hero of the day. Hell, I'll give you hero of the month!
That's awesome. It fits both wicked wind and sprint tornados EXACTLY.

I can't tell you how happy that makes me.
meh this new hotfix is breaking my balls. I liked the challenge of playing mp6 with sns, it wasnt efficent but it was fun. Now to get the same challenge im gona have to pump at least 2 mp levels higher and im going to snore to death killing stuff at my !@#$ty dps. I also had my upgrades sort of planned out, it was basically get some of the same stuff i have but better so i could be improving ehp and dps at same time piece by piece, now its all down the gutter.

So im now stuck in a new dressing dilema. Screw higher mps drop some AR + armour to pump dps and maybe add some mf so i can be efficent at around mp6. OR upgrade thinking in the very long term and continue with my original plan and be ble to farm high mp levels ... someday.

i am after a tals relentless pursuit with decent ar, which i wont be able to afford till my damn 78 ar, 5.5cc, 195 int tals guise gets sold. with that i should gain around 150 int (dps) while slightly increasing the ehp, and will be a good chest piece on the long run.

But for the same money i could get a tals pursuit with higher int + mf and a decent witching hour. with a little gear swapping around id loose like 80AR and 400 armour and some vit but pump the dps nicely.

thoughts?
Hey guys, I'm trying to gear up my Wizard and admittedly, I'm finding it pretty difficult financially. What I'm wondering is, at what attack speed will I be able to solo mid size targets? I can somewhat handle big guys like Golgors and groups of enemies at 1.8 aps (with a Chantodo, not the wand I have equipped), but for smaller single targets I let the rest of my group handle them.

What happens when I reach 2.8aps? Instant cooldown?


I just got above 2.74 yesterday and am able to solo most single targets at MP5 and still have to chase some of them around a bit. I have found it useful to try and pull a whole room over to single target elites and get them killed as fast as possible. You will still have trouble no matter what you do with freeze, teleport elites and elites that run away. There is no perma freeze period. It is up to you, I had 140k dps before and only had to switch out like 3/4 pieces of gear to do CM/WW and it cost me abour 350m to be able to do it right.

Even at my gear level I find it is not efficient to farm any higher than about mp5/6 but my resitances are low too.


LOL 350m ? R U serious ??
here's my wiz: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/pabrt-1613/hero/1960

I hit 2.8 attacks a second, what do I improve next? I was thinking of getting more life on hit, but...
here's my wiz: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/pabrt-1613/hero/1960

I hit 2.8 attacks a second, what do I improve next? I was thinking of getting more life on hit, but...


How's your survivability as it stands now?
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