Diablo® III

Wicked Wind Tick Rate and Breakpoints

10/14/2012 04:10 AMPosted by HolyTedMan
Since I already hit 3 APS, I'm now looking at ways to balance/tweak my build even more. I'm thinking about lowering my APS to 2.73 to open some more options. Looking at the set Sage's Grasp and Sage's Orbit will give armor a pretty good boost and the (random) stats can be nice too (the usual cc, ias and chd on the gloves). And above all, they're very affordable (both items combined cost a fraction of a Mempo). So don't know why fellow wizards don't use them more.


I want APoC so I don't use Sage's Orbit. Sage's Grasp has the same utility as a good Rare, so I just picked one with lower price (varying from time to time though).

You have the exact same though process as mine lol, I also consider lowering my APS from 3.05 to 2.74, it seems to be the better option, especially if I can get a 100CD Ammy in the new patch. 3 aps is a bit overkill imo, but very nice nonetheless to have.
i have 2 sages grasp one with 9 ias and one with 33 cd + de cc with quite decent stats, both were very cheap. what i found works great for buffing ehp is the sages journey they are also very cheap, you have to get them with decent rolls on int vit and ms though, so they are not always available. I have on of those too in my stash, i had to drop it tu get little more ias to hit the breakpoint though... not that im not happy with what i replaced them with, its just that they have diferent roles.
Edited by ximae#1789 on 10/14/2012 4:31 AM PDT

I want APoC so I don't use Sage's Orbit. Sage's Grasp has the same utility as a good Rare, so I just picked one with lower price (varying from time to time though).

You have the exact same though process as mine lol, I also consider lowering my APS from 3.05 to 2.74, it seems to be the better option, especially if I can get a 100CD Ammy in the new patch. 3 aps is a bit overkill imo, but very nice nonetheless to have.


You have 16 APoC, isn't that enough on 2.74 APS? I can imagine it might be a bit tight, but still doable I think. Of course a Storm Crow isn't bad, but I like to push things to the edges. A 100CHD ammy is great and will give dps a huge boost (given the same ias, cc and int). Sometimes I do miss the 100CHD which I had on my previous sockected chants wand.
^If anyone would like to know I have a quick little APoC test I do to quantify if your 'good' or not.

Calculate your AP per second per twister per target.

So take...

APoC * 0.125 * CC * Tickrate = X.XX AP per Twister per Second per Target

Results of...

7.50-8.00 = Sufficient, not that great, but workable
8.00-9.00 = Great, but can get yourself in trouble with wormhole
9.00-9.50 = Sweet spot of epic-ness
9.50+ = Generally not needed.

So at 2.74 aps and 20 APoC you'd be comfortable if you run with 60% CC. You can prolly live with as low as 50% CC. Any lower and you'll be struggling for AP.

At 3.00 however 20 APoC is far easier. Anything above 54% cc is godly, and as low as 45% is still do-able. Although I wouldn't suggest it cause your CM procs would suffer.
^If anyone would like to know I have a quick little APoC test I do to quantify if your 'good' or not.

Calculate your AP per second per twister per target.

So take...

APoC * 0.125 * CC * Tickrate = X.XX AP per Twister per Second per Target

Results of...

7.50-8.00 = Sufficient, not that great, but workable
8.00-9.00 = Great, but can get yourself in trouble with wormhole
9.00-9.50 = Sweet spot of epic-ness
9.50+ = Generally not needed.

So at 2.74 aps and 20 APoC you'd be comfortable if you run with 60% CC. You can prolly live with as low as 50% CC. Any lower and you'll be struggling for AP.

At 3.00 however 20 APoC is far easier. Anything above 54% cc is godly, and as low as 45% is still do-able. Although I wouldn't suggest it cause your CM procs would suffer.


Lol so now I have 9.86 AP return, totally overkill xD if I lower my APoC to <20, it won't be sustainable though. So I think I must up my CC if I want to drop APoC, I guess... but even 3 more CC are so costly, I would rather lowering the IAS and adding more CD for more DPS. Even at 2.74, I should still have 8.87 AP return, not bad at all. 2 pieces with high CD should add more DPS than a good roll Chant source without APoC.

High hope for the high CC Jewelries in 1.05 <3
Thanks Shand, where would the wizards be without you?

Given the math, it's still quite a challenge to balance things out. As novice said, you either have an overkill of AP return, or you're running out if you remove a source of APoC. We can use pinpoint or deep freeze to help us balance, but both runes have their drawbacks. I really need to think about this.
2.74 APS.. hmmm

I have no idea how to calculate for APS.

Am currently at 2.06 with 9ias from glove and 8 from chest.

if i will to hit 2.74 aps.. would getting 9 on both rings amulets and source get me there? i can get a 9ias from witching too.

dont really want to get inna pants and lacuni bracers as they are crap. must i get them to get 2.74 aps?
2.74 APS.. hmmm

I have no idea how to calculate for APS.

Am currently at 2.06 with 9ias from glove and 8 from chest.

if i will to hit 2.74 aps.. would getting 9 on both rings amulets and source get me there? i can get a 9ias from witching too.

dont really want to get inna pants and lacuni bracers as they are crap. must i get them to get 2.74 aps?


You will need 56% IAS to reach 2.74 with your current Wand (2.74/1.76, round up). So assuming you get perfect IAS Rings+ Ammy + Chant Source, you still need 3 more IAS to reach that point. So one more Legend with IAS is needed.
2.74 APS.. hmmm

I have no idea how to calculate for APS.

Am currently at 2.06 with 9ias from glove and 8 from chest.

if i will to hit 2.74 aps.. would getting 9 on both rings amulets and source get me there? i can get a 9ias from witching too.

dont really want to get inna pants and lacuni bracers as they are crap. must i get them to get 2.74 aps?


It's simple

weapon speed x multiplier.

so me for @ 56% ias
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Aimless-1700/hero/10258657

1.77 x 1.56 = 2.76

IAS wand is HUGE man. Thats best way i recommend for ppl on budget or dont want to wear crap like innas or lacuni
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 10/14/2012 6:53 AM PDT
Because his Tal Rasha has only 8 IAS, he will need max aps Chant Wand and perfect roll for IAS everywhere else to achive 2.74 aps. Or 2.78 aps chant wand and max IAS everywhere else, including the chest armor - which means he will have to regear his chest. That is not going to be cheap, considering he will also need a Chant Source. CM Wiz is costly no matter what...
I do have a 1.79 Chant wand currently in AH for 200mil. But using that gives me a dps drop of 1k so i thoguht that heck. 0.3 would not make much difference. Looks like i gotta use that again.

so if max chant wand. 8 from tal. 9 from rings amulet and source and belt. would that be enough?? i could get it from andariel if i want. but that means i have to get an apoc source. so i hope that i can stick with storm crow and ias from the rest
Apoc chants sources are biggest rip offs going right now save your money and get a better source with like 160 vit on it cheap. you dont need apoc source above 2.73 threashold.

I wouldnt even trade my non apoc source for a apoc source other than to sell it. I fact I sold my apoc source and kept non apoc one with both in hand at same time and same DPS.

Wish I kept it just a little longer cuz instead of just doubling my money I would have quadrupled it with all these fools thinking 30 apoc is necessary.
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 10/14/2012 8:50 AM PDT
20*0.125*0.495*(36/6) = 7.425....

so what you're saying is my current gear is unviable for 1.0.5? =/
I do have a 1.79 Chant wand currently in AH for 200mil. But using that gives me a dps drop of 1k so i thoguht that heck. 0.3 would not make much difference. Looks like i gotta use that again.

so if max chant wand. 8 from tal. 9 from rings amulet and source and belt. would that be enough?? i could get it from andariel if i want. but that means i have to get an apoc source. so i hope that i can stick with storm crow and ias from the rest


No belt needed. Only Rings, Ammy, Gloves, Chest, and Source for that 1.79 Wand.

@Aimless: you sure 20 APoC works at 2.74? You have same CC as mine, and according to Shandlar, we have only 7.275 AP return, not really great imo. With Pinpoint it will be ok, but I know you never use Pinpoint, so is 7.275 AP return enough? Seem low.
Edited by novice#1750 on 10/14/2012 8:47 AM PDT
Works perfect. Single elites don't move. What more can u ask for?

20 Apoc is only a problem at low IAS and you still have cool-down issue no matter if you have 100 apoc. Above 2.74 cooldowns and apoc ceases to be a problem @20.

I tested this again to make sure just to see if I was missing out when I had all everyones gear in ptr to get me to lik 3.4 ias....anyway 30 apoc made no difference whatsoever @ 2.76
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 10/14/2012 8:55 AM PDT
Works perfect. Single elites don't move. What more can u ask for?

20 Apoc is only a problem at low IAS and you still have cool-down issue no matter if you have 100 apoc. Above 2.74 cooldowns and apoc ceases to be a problem @20.

I tested this again to make sure just to see if I was missing out when I had all everyones gear in ptr to get me to lik 3.4 ias....anyway 30 apoc made no difference whatsoever @ 2.76


Ok thanks. I will test with 19 APoC to see if there is any difference. The merit of >20 APoC is that I can misplace some Twister, so less concentration, but gears optimization comes first. I hope with pinpoint the gameplay will still feel that comfortable.
20*0.125*0.495*(36/6) = 7.425....

so what you're saying is my current gear is unviable for 1.0.5? =/


You are a good example so is nitro of 20 apoc users. Y'all still bought the overpriced source but wanted more for a helm like mempo and that's a fine choice. But 3 srouces of apoc not needed. We all think it is cuz as we worked our way up in ias running like 2.4 it was - that's why I bought apoc chants - but i soon found my 1.77 wand taking me to 2.76 it was unnecessary.
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 10/14/2012 9:01 AM PDT
^If anyone would like to know I have a quick little APoC test I do to quantify if your 'good' or not.

Calculate your AP per second per twister per target.

So take...

APoC * 0.125 * CC * Tickrate = X.XX AP per Twister per Second per Target

Results of...

7.50-8.00 = Sufficient, not that great, but workable
8.00-9.00 = Great, but can get yourself in trouble with wormhole
9.00-9.50 = Sweet spot of epic-ness
9.50+ = Generally not needed.

So at 2.74 aps and 20 APoC you'd be comfortable if you run with 60% CC. You can prolly live with as low as 50% CC. Any lower and you'll be struggling for AP.

At 3.00 however 20 APoC is far easier. Anything above 54% cc is godly, and as low as 45% is still do-able. Although I wouldn't suggest it cause your CM procs would suffer.


si Im in the sweet spot with scoundrel and I waiting 1.05 to upgrade my helm for storm crow 5-6% and probably ring also.

29 APOC * 0.125 *33/6 (2.51atk speed) *.046=9.17 now and probably 9.57+ easily in 1.05
SO with only 20 APOC I need 2.73atk speed and 60%CC !!!!! to be equivalent to my current setup 2.51 atk speed and 46%CC
SO everyone get the more APOC you can !!!
and personally I see a VERY BIG difference when I bought my chantodo force with APOC (120 million) 29 APOC vs 20 APOC when testing with WW/CM. The best upgrade so far. I was way too much out of arcane power with 20 APOC.
Edited by einsteinz#1738 on 10/14/2012 9:38 AM PDT
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