Diablo® III

Wicked Wind Tick Rate and Breakpoints

thanks :)
Time to Farm then l0l
17 APoC / 2.5+ aps is working fine for me.
What is ur Crit Chance 0.0 ?
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I would like to extend my thanks to Shandler, Apo and Guybrush. This must have been no easy task.
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Cooldowns are not where I want them @ 2.76/2.81 - I'm shooting for 3 now. All I need is 9% helm & better gloves.
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 10/19/2012 10:46 AM PDT
Nice work figuring out the breakpoints. Thanks to everyone involved!

Standard WW/CM feels pretty smooth with 3.0x ASP, 47% CC and 19 APoC.

Too bad my mitigation and damage are nowhere near what id like them to be. Gotta get rid of placeholder trinkets and gloves first. CD would skyrocket my damage for i have none *sad*.
Edited by shibii#2506 on 10/19/2012 11:40 AM PDT
Cooldowns are not where I want them @ 2.76/2.81 - I'm shooting for 3 now. All I need is 9% helm & better gloves.


I've been there @3 APS and the difference between 2.76 APS and 3 APS is definitely noticeable. I'm trying to optimize my build @2.76 APS to see if I can make it better than 3 APS, then choose whether I go for 3 or 2.76 APS.

Thinking about switching the Tal Rasha armor and yellow ring for a Zuni's Marrow and Pox for the set bonus. Then switch my pants and amu for Blackthorne's to get the extra life and loh. With 6 pieces of 9 IAS, I will have exactly 2.75 APS.
10/07/2012 02:37 PMPosted by Shandlar
Still trying to figure out the rhyme or reason to these particular numbers but the testing makes it pretty clear these are within a hundreth of an attack per second.


I'm not sure if you ever nailed down the formula for this, but here you go:
frames_per_attack = floor(30 / attacks_per_second)
tick_rate = ceil(360 / frames_per_attack)


Here's a table of APS vs Tick Rate breakpoints calculated from the above formula:
Minimum Tick
APS rate
-----------------
7.5001 120
6.0001 90
5.0001 72
4.2858 60
3.7501 52
3.3334 45
3.0001 40
2.7273 36
2.5001 33
2.3077 30
2.1429 28
2.0001 26
1.8751 24
1.7648 23
1.6667 22
1.5790 20
1.5001 19
1.3637 18
1.3044 17
1.2501 16
1.1539 15
1.0715 14
1.0001 13
0.9091 12
0.8334 11
0.7501 10
0.6667 9
0.5770 8
0.5001 7
0.4167 6
0.3334 5
0.2501 4
0.1667 3
0.0834 2
0.0001 1


Edit: Changed second "floor" to "ceil", and added 2 additional decimal places of precision to APS numbers.
Edited by Voltara#1928 on 10/19/2012 12:49 PM PDT
Wait where did that formula come from?

And finally is it 2.72 or 2.73?
Wait where did that formula come from?

And finally is it 2.72 or 2.73?


I derived it from the numbers that Shandlar originally posted.

In my table (which I worked out to 4 decimal places to match Shandlar's table), the breakpoint at 2.7273 APS. Truncating it to 2 decimal places, the breakpoint becomes 2.73, because:
2.72 < 2.7273 < 2.73
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Cooldowns are not where I want them @ 2.76/2.81 - I'm shooting for 3 now. All I need is 9% helm & better gloves.


I've been there @3 APS and the difference between 2.76 APS and 3 APS is definitely noticeable. I'm trying to optimize my build @2.76 APS to see if I can make it better than 3 APS, then choose whether I go for 3 or 2.76 APS.

Thinking about switching the Tal Rasha armor and yellow ring for a Zuni's Marrow and Pox for the set bonus. Then switch my pants and amu for Blackthorne's to get the extra life and loh. With 6 pieces of 9 IAS, I will have exactly 2.75 APS.


Only way to optimze lower ias is high CC.

I am also trying to decide if I should shoot for 55%CC@ 2.76ias or 3 ias @50% CC. ofc both is what we want but either one of those option will already cost hundreds of millions in upgrades. Which we still had ptr so i could borrow stuff and try. :(

55% CC is a lot easier too and won't kill mitigation for most. OTOH 3.0 is EZ for me w/ a 1.77 wand tho so can keep good bracer, good pants and don't have to buy innas or lacuni just helm and little higher gloves.

Shand? What's the math say is best for reseting cooldowns?

55CC @ 2.76 ias
or
50CC @ 3.0 ias
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 10/19/2012 1:29 PM PDT
What's the math say is best for reseting cooldowns?

55CC @ 2.76 ias
or
50CC @ 3.0 ias


As far as I can understand the relative effectiveness boils down to:

APS * number of ticks per twister * CC

in this case:
2,76 * 36 * 0,55 = 54,648
3 * 40 * 0,5 = 60

You'd need ~60% CC to reach the same effectiveness with the lower breakpoint.

Please correct me if im wrong.
Aimless, shouldn't it be essentially related to: tick rate x proc coefficient x crit chance? If so it would be:
55CC @ 2.76 ias: 0.55*36*0.125 = 2.475
50CC @ 3.0 ias: 0.50*40*0.125 = 2.500

However, an additional 1%cc on 2.76 ias would be 2.52, instead of 2.475. So if you can squeeze MORE than 5% cc than you're better off than going for 3.0 ias. :)
@Shibii: I thought that attacks per second were only relevant for estimating the tick rate. Do you multiply the benefit derived from each "tick" by your attacks per second?

EDIT: On post 89 of the thread, Shandlar shows the estimate for deriving the benefit is:
"33 ticks = 5.5/s
5.5 hits/s * 0.125 * 1790 = 1231 life per second per twister per target... (ALOT!)
5.5 hits/s * 0.125 * 0.47 * 30 = 9.69 AP per second per twister per target"
So yeah you estimate the tick rate, divide that number by 6s for your effective attacks per second. Then you multiple that number by the proc coefficient and then by your CC.

So I was correct for the "relative" benefit, but you need to divide my numbers by 6 to get the effective benefit per second. Though I have no idea what the CM proc coefficient is, but that's just a scaling factor.
Edited by TekkZero#1963 on 10/19/2012 2:00 PM PDT
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Aimless, shouldn't it be essentially related to: tick rate x proc coefficient x crit chance? If so it would be:
55CC @ 2.76 ias: 0.55*36*0.125 = 2.475
50CC @ 3.0 ias: 0.50*40*0.125 = 2.500

However, an additional 1%cc on 2.76 ias would be 2.52, instead of 2.475. So if you can squeeze MORE than 5% cc than you're better off than going for 3.0 ias. :)


Yeah but...
I can get 2 if i upgrade stormcrow to a 6% (100m)
3 if i upgrade my trifecta to a 6% (lolz that will be cheap 1b?)
2 if I find a 900 loh 9 ias 10 CC ammy (300m?)
1.5 if i upgrade my other ring to a 6 CC (50m top)

= 6.5 CC for cool price of 1.5B
10/19/2012 01:54 PMPosted by TekkZero
@Shibii: I thought that attacks per second were only relevant for estimating the tick rate.


Attack speed comes into play twice because on top of getting more ticks from every twister you'll have more twisters out before the older ones start dying out.
@shibii: If I understand you, you're saying that it's not the "benefit per twister" that's the best measure, but rather that it's better to estimate the "benefit per total number of available twisters." I guess that makes sense with wicked wind if you assume that your twisters are procing ~100% of their total time (a perfect permafreeze). In that reasonable case (since we're talking already high attack speeds), then 3.0 attack speed is probably a lot better than 55%cc. :)
^Its hard to quantify without getting into some moderately server algebra to guesstimate the effect of CM, CC, and IAS on your ability to cast frost nova as well, which effects how many twisters you can run....which effects how fast you cast nova............which effects how many twisters you can stack....

I've attempted to build an excel sheet for this, its not as easy as most are.

If you just use 'perm freeze' as a baseline and then increase nova cast at the rate of tick improvment it would look like this....

55cc and 2.76 aps

2.76 - 0.95 = 1.81 aps * 6 = 10.86 twisters * 6 * 0.125 * 0.55 = 4.48 CM procs

50cc and 3.00 aps

3.00 - 1.05 = 1.95 aps * 6 = 11.70 twisters * 6.67 * 0.125 * 0.50 = 4.88 CM procs

IAS is king. Pretty much certain of this. I just cannot justify an IAS chants, so I'm dealing with the reality that 2.74 is what i'm gonna max at, and move on. Stack crit to the hilt cause theres no other way to improve CM.
Edited by Shandlar#1961 on 10/19/2012 2:52 PM PDT
You guys make me weak in the knees with all this talk! I love it.
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Thanks shand.. ias wand should not be dismissed. It's "budget" way to get there for many and mucho EHP way to get to break points for others and only way to get insane top lvl IAS. I notice u got a new wand tho so prolly not in a hurry to trade it out just yet lol/
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 10/19/2012 6:55 PM PDT
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