Diablo® III

Blue: Bonus Item

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the way Im reading this, and I could be wrong since no one else seems to be seeing it this way, is that currently trash has a 30% chance to drop an ``item`` and in patch at mp10 there is a 100% chance that if this ``item`` drops then it will drop an additional ``item``. Item here refers not just to gear drops but also gold or gems or toms or whetever else can drop from a mob. So it does not mean that you will always see 0 or 2 gears drop. could be that it drops gold then bonus item is gear, or more gold or gem... or could be the initial drop is gear then your bonus is an extra stack of gold exc...
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Just in case you guys didn't totally get Lylirra's blue post =) It's worded a little weird.

In MP 10, when you kill a white mob, the chances of it dropping one piece of loot is about 30%. IF it happens to drop that first piece of loot, it now has a 100% chance of rolling a bonus item. This extra bonus item is STILL at a drop chance of 30%, like the first piece of loot. So if you see a mob drop one piece of loot and your wondering why it didn't drop the second, this is why. Also note, this bonus item chance is only effective on white mobs at the moment, elites still drop the same amount of loot. As you go down the MP levels, the chance of a bonus item roll goes down. Because of this, you will see a significant loss in loot drops on white mobs. Thus, this makes MP 10 still the best to farm, if you can kill the mobs quickly and effectively of course. If not, playing on a slightly lower MP, such as 7,8, or 9 will still yield decent white mob drops.

Hope this clears a few last questions about bonus items.

Make sure you check out
http://www.twitch.tv/google337 at around 5pm pacific

Google will be doing MP 10 to test the bonus item drop rates and viewers can see the drops in action. I will be voice commentating from time to time on the stream as well.

EDIT: Some footage from last night's stream on MP 10
http://www.twitch.tv/google337/b/335254288


I just don't see how, at MP 10, a 250% MP bonus (less than double the MF cap) and a double drop rate for items off white mobs only is worth 371% mob damage and 3439% mob health.

"If you can kill mobs quickly and effectively" is the most important phrase in your entire statement, and I don't think it will hold up.
Edited by Mith#1762 on 10/12/2012 1:01 PM PDT
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Just in case you guys didn't totally get Lylirra's blue post =) It's worded a little weird.

In MP 10, when you kill a white mob, the chances of it dropping one piece of loot is about 30%. IF it happens to drop that first piece of loot, it now has a 100% chance of rolling a bonus item. This extra bonus item is STILL at a drop chance of 30%, like the first piece of loot. So if you see a mob drop one piece of loot and your wondering why it didn't drop the second, this is why. Also note, this bonus item chance is only effective on white mobs at the moment, elites still drop the same amount of loot. As you go down the MP levels, the chance of a bonus item roll goes down. Because of this, you will see a significant loss in loot drops on white mobs. Thus, this makes MP 10 still the best to farm, if you can kill the mobs quickly and effectively of course. If not, playing on a slightly lower MP, such as 7,8, or 9 will still yield decent white mob drops.

Hope this clears a few last questions about bonus items.

Make sure you check out
http://www.twitch.tv/google337 at around 5pm pacific

Google will be doing MP 10 to test the bonus item drop rates and viewers can see the drops in action. I will be voice commentating from time to time on the stream as well.

EDIT: Some footage from last night's stream on MP 10
http://www.twitch.tv/google337/b/335254288


I just don't see how, at MP 10, a 250% MP bonus (less than double the MF cap) and a double drop rate for items off white mobs only is worth 371% mob damage and 3439% mob health.

"If you can kill mobs quickly and effectively" is the most important phrase in your entire statement, and I don't think it will hold up.


If you kill mobs like Google does, its considered quickly and effectively =)
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Probability shouldn't be so difficult to understand.
Roll a dice (or two) and observe lol.

I'm looking forward to monster power. Now if they would just up the player count to 8 and add loot dueling with a clan feature, we're set.
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I just don't see how, at MP 10, a 250% MP bonus (less than double the MF cap) and a double drop rate for items off white mobs only is worth 371% mob damage and 3439% mob health.

"If you can kill mobs quickly and effectively" is the most important phrase in your entire statement, and I don't think it will hold up.


If you kill mobs like Google does, its considered quickly and effectively =)


I don't consider players falling off the edge of statistical outliers to be good benchmarks, nor do I consider that to be quick or effective if you compare it to present farming speeds that players are capable of.

Just look at the gains at MP10... 250% (less than double MF cap) and double drops from white mobs only. How much longer is he taking to kill stuff on PTR MP=10 than on live?

Nevermind that he dies.
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When a monster dies, the first thing we do is decide whether it's going to drop loot at all.

Most monsters -- like say your everyday shambling zombies -- have a roughly 30% chance to drop loot. The exact percentage, however, varies from monster to monster (for example, the Tormented Stingers in Act III have a much lower chance because they spawn in large packs and are easy to kill).

When you kill a monster in Inferno on MP1 or higher, if you pass the initial roll to obtain loot, you will also get a second roll to get an additional piece of loot. The "bonus item" chance for each MP level is detailed [url="https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/content_folder_media/MQRC9PZ3CZ1K1349891151349.jpg?v=0"]here[/url]. A few monsters are exempt from the bonus loot, but we tried to put it on the vast majority of normal monsters, and will probably add it to more if we like how the system plays out.

Also, just to be clear, the bonus drop applies to Normal monsters only. We wanted Monster Power to provide players with extra loot rolls, and (since Champions and Rares are already guaranteed to drop multiple items) Normal monsters seemed like the best place for us to add that mechanic in.


yes, by all means, lets make the white trash mobs drop even better loot tyet, i mean heck, they aready drop the majority of legendaries, which just makes me scratch my !@# wondering why arent these guys taking over the world, they obviously have better gear then the bosses including diablo.

WHAT A JOKE!!!!!
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I think a different model for monster powers would be better.

Say at MP1 all items (including legendaries/sets) have a 1% chance to spawn an extra affixe. Example: SOJ can spawn with a random affixe/Natalya's Ring gets 4 random affixe.

Then maybe scale it up 5% each monster power increment. This is a rough idea but it needs to be a unique reward that has progression in some sense. Magic find's diminishing returns are too large at high levels and I literally don't even consider it a part of a reward (because that's the reality of how much it helps). Since I get 75+% of my legendaries/sets from boss packs the bonus drop loot is not incentivizing at all either. MP1 for me.

Hellfire ring can be good but it'll probably take an insane amount of tries to generate a good one. Ultimately, I don't see myself doing it unless im just bored.

Both systems, Monster Power and Infernal Machine seem really sloppy and remind me of when Inferno first came out and legendaries first came out. They are just not worth it.


Thanks, we all appreciate and respect your input on the matter.

I agree the additions they have made do not incentivise higher geared players to farm higher mp lvls. I am much more likely to find upgrade in MP1 than in MP10. The questions still remains why dont they do something about it.

I thought the old hellfire was great for giving ppl with high gear or plvl something to farm, knowing it would be upgrade after like 1000 tries (better than not knowing at all). But i guess instead of balancing it correctly it was just easier to nerf it into oblivion and make useless.

I guess it still remains to be seen if this extra drop makes killing trash a better source of loot but i doubt it.

Will test tonight though. Me and 3 other wd's are owning mp10 atm, it's hilarious.
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Lylirra, quick question: when a regular (white) monster drops a piece of gear, does it use the same base probability table as the drops from elite/champions packs to determine the quality of the dropped item? By quality I mean whether it's legendary/set, 6-affix rare, 5-affix rare and so on.

When I say "base probability" I'm referring to the values at 0 MF.
Edited by puppi#1169 on 10/12/2012 2:39 PM PDT
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10/12/2012 11:34 AMPosted by Raining
Does that mean If I kill 20 normal monsters in the same screen in MP10, there will be guaranteed 20 drops from them? Wow, there will be lots of drops on the ground. Combined with high MF in MP10, tons of rares (small chance legendary) on the ground. This seems pretty big change. I originally thought it only applies to elites.


The system was already in place. It works almost exactly like players X system in D2. I have kept track of trash drops doing vault runs and I found it almost matched this system of bonus items to the T.

Here was my run before any of this was even revealed on Monday:

Live - 17 drops
MP0 - 11 drops
MP1 - 23 drops
MP7- 52 drops
MP10 - 71 drops

Keep in mind like Lylirra stated random drops still go off a percent to drop an item and vaults tends to have large packs of skeletons so they would drop less loot more often, but a same place comparison gave me the idea that MP10 drops approximately at a factor of 4.25x than live from the current drop pool.

I'll do vault full clears again just to make sure there wasn't any adjustments but pretty sure this is the way MP has always been, they are just now explaining it in detail.
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I think a different model for monster powers would be better.

Say at MP1 all items (including legendaries/sets) have a 1% chance to spawn an extra affixe. Example: SOJ can spawn with a random affixe/Natalya's Ring gets 4 random affixe.

Then maybe scale it up 5% each monster power increment. This is a rough idea but it needs to be a unique reward that has progression in some sense. Magic find's diminishing returns are too large at high levels and I literally don't even consider it a part of a reward (because that's the reality of how much it helps). Since I get 75+% of my legendaries/sets from boss packs the bonus drop loot is not incentivizing at all either. MP1 for me.

Hellfire ring can be good but it'll probably take an insane amount of tries to generate a good one. Ultimately, I don't see myself doing it unless im just bored.

Both systems, Monster Power and Infernal Machine seem really sloppy and remind me of when Inferno first came out and legendaries first came out. They are just not worth it.


I think you're onto a problem in D3 - diversity of loot itself. The problem is we're all using or aiming for the same items IMHO. A lot of the 'newly improved' legendary rolls aren't even all that great. Have you picked up a pus spitter lately? I digress.

Having more affixes spawn on the popular or already useful legendary and set items would be interesting, but more diversity in general (in rares at least) would be great. Long term goal of Blizz I'm sure.
Edited by WingsofEros#1809 on 10/12/2012 3:06 PM PDT
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So if you give the monsters 3000% more health you'll get 30% more drops from trash?

Sounds pretty fail to me.

Equilibrium MP farming level to maximize drops is going to be much lower than people think.
Edited by MartinAlvito#1712 on 10/12/2012 3:53 PM PDT
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On every Normal kill... with a rough 30% chance of loot enemy

MPlvl% = MP Bonus Item %

Prob of single drop = (0.3)*(1-MPlvl%)
Prob of double drop = (03)*(MPlvl%)

So, for every kill, there's always still a 70% chance of not recieving any loot.

For MPlvl1
Prob of Single drop = (0.3)*(1-0.01) = 0.297 = 29.7% chance
Prob of Double drop = (0.3)*(0.01) = 0.003 = 0.3% chance
Prob of No Drop = 0.7 = 70%

For MPlvl5
Prob of Single drop = (0.3)*(1-0.36) = 0.192 = 19.2% chance
Prob of Double drop = (0.3)*(0.36) = 0.108 = 10.8% chance
Prob of No Drop = 0.7 = 70%

For MPlvl10
Prob of Single drop = (0.3)*(1-1.0) = 0 = 0% chance
Prob of Double drop = (0.3)*(1.0) = 0.3 = 30% chance (If they drop, you always recieve two loots)
Prob of No Drop = 0.7 = 70%
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What about about me (and 90% at a guess) of the D3 buyers who wanted a better skill/item system that doesn't suck balls and force us to gold AH? U think facilitating the current 10% (1million yeah right) and telling them kills per minute = better loot means anything?

What the !@#$ happened to Diablo? We mostly knew killling more mobs equates to more drops and x2 kill rate is better than x3 mf.

...If I kill baddies all day I maybe get the opportunity to to make a decent profit in AH. Work it out!? AH is not "fun", interesting, cleaver, or is anyhow gameplay. (Sorry any D3 "pros")

When you are trying to milk the last dying cow of a heard you should maybe think about re-population.

PS: for you all that haven't worked it out yet - Gauranteed rares doesnt equate to better items. Nephalem valour is bull%^-*, the garuanteed rares are always local to AH Popularity

(Ignores post/replies)

PPS: Ignore me or prove my statement wrong
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Yea those numbers will be correct for patch day like 1.04,the very next day it will be nerfed.
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In other words the item hunt for junk continues. The mathematical equations get more complex and in the end no legends will drop for the players who didn't cheat the first weeks of the games launch.

Blizzard-Not even a thought for me to buy another blizzard game.


So you are saying 100% of the people who have gotten a legendary at any time while playing this game cheated in the first week?

That's interesting, because I have never cheated at this game, and yet I have found at least 20 legendaries. How did that happen?

Learn to think before you say stupid bull!@#$ please.
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10/12/2012 11:58 AMPosted by Prozac
As an archon wizard I prefer to just blast through everything, and around MP4/5 is where that slows down a lot. I think that's where I'll hang out. I'm still wondering if MP0 would be more efficient. It's basically zero risk, all one-shots, and allows you to go more offensive.


Yep I feel the same way but my wall is 3/4. So I will farm that until the wall is 4/5 and so on. I like that I have a new goal to shoot for, besides just paragon and loot. Interesting point on MP0, but I feel like MP1 will be nearly as easy for me, and you as well, so why not just do that instead? I like pub games (due to small friends list) so I am interested to hear reasons why people think it would be worth farming. Besides of course the brainless joy of facerolling the entire game. ;)
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Also, just to be clear, the bonus drop applies to Normal monsters only. We wanted Monster Power to provide players with extra loot rolls, and (since Champions and Rares are already guaranteed to drop multiple items) Normal monsters seemed like the best place for us to add that mechanic in.


Thanks for telling me that lower MP's are absolutely more efficient to farm than higher ones.
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Gauranteed rares doesnt equate to better items. Nephalem valour is bull%^-*, the garuanteed rares are always local to AH Popularity
Haha! You say this but also said better kill rate is better than MF. Another noob who thinks MF is useless. Ignored.
Thanks for telling me that lower MP's are absolutely more efficient to farm than higher ones.
That's what I told everyone at the start of PTR. But no, everybody ignores speedforce.......
The questions still remains why dont they do something about it.
Why would they? MP wasn't designed to be a new farm spot. I thought this was clearly obvious when they said loot drop chances will stay exactly the same on lower difficulties. That was a clear sign to me that I'm gonna run max MF at no MP and run that as fast as humanly possible. I'll bet you I'll get more items........
Edited by speedforce#1637 on 10/12/2012 8:08 PM PDT
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Gauranteed rares doesnt equate to better items. Nephalem valour is bull%^-*, the garuanteed rares are always local to AH Popularity
Haha! You say this but also said better kill rate is better than MF. Another noob who thinks MF is useless. Ignored.
Thanks for telling me that lower MP's are absolutely more efficient to farm than higher ones.
That's what I told everyone at the start of PTR. But no, everybody ignores speedforce.......
The questions still remains why dont they do something about it.
Why would they? MP wasn't designed to be a new farm spot. I thought this was clearly obvious when they said loot drop chances will stay exactly the same on lower difficulties. That was a clear sign to me that I'm gonna run max MF at no MP and run that as fast as humanly possible. I'll bet you I'll get more items........


So what you're saying is farming ubers and doing any of the new content, including getting hellfire rings is pointless?

Cool.

Blizzard are you listening to this?

I hope so.
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