Diablo® III

Manticore vs Windforce

ain't rich and ain't looking to have godly dps, just looking to be above average.

1)would you prefer
a) Manticore with eq(eg. rings, amulets) looking for attack speed + crit chance
b) Windforce with eq(eg. rings, amulets) looking for crit chance + crit dmg

don't suggest getting all 3(asi cc cd) , trifecta are too exp for me =/

2) what would be an rough estimate dps for manticore to be at the same dps as windforce as manticore has base crit and a chance to roll 2 sockets while Windforce can only have 1 socket.
eg. 1k dps manticore + 2 os = 1.2k windforce + 1os

just making up numbers =/

3) other factors you have considered when choosing between manticore and windforce?

4) with 2OS manticore being able to go up to 280%+ crit, it seems that i should be able to drop archery for another passive in 1.0.5? eg. perfectionist/night stalkervengeance.
while using a windforce, advisable to drop bat companion for another skill?
how would your skills setup be different while using a windforce vs manticore?

5) how would you tinker around with your build with a mantiocore? ie. 6 skills + 3 passives
i am thinking of the following:
companion:bat, ss:prep. ss:lingering , sp:gloom, hungering:SoT, elemental: ball lightning
perfectionist, TA, steady aim (seen a couple of threads where people are dropping SA for utility passives such as night stalker or vengeance, but y not archery since u gonna get much CD from a manticore?)

6) would you go for 1.1k+ 2OS or 1.3k- 1OS manticore? =/

thanks all in advance for ur input.
Edited by IgnisFatalis#6770 on 10/14/2012 8:53 PM PDT
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the worst manticore will have about the same dps as an average windforce.
only pick windforce if you like bow speed and knockback for survivability. if you like big crits and single-shot damage then go for an xbow/manticore.

on the plus side manticores are really cheap right now. you can get a decent one for 15-20m

o/
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Depends on how much you have to spend? Don't bother with a WF though really, a regular bow with socket and 80%+ base crit dam will have way better damage output and be more comparable with single socket Manticores.
The one I'm using cost me 10M yesterday, I had one with slightly less DPS just before that which I paid 3M for so they can be brought for dirt cheap.
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looks like its 2-0 to manticore. on a side note, added couple of further thoughts on skills and passives while using manticore or windforce. do discuss.
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manticore all the way, had a windforce with int as the random roll drop for my wiz, tried it on my dh, wasnt a big fan of the higher atk speed, went back to a rare xbow, and then finally manned up and bought a manticore
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I just switch from a wind force to manticore today. DPS shot up 90k but I have to change the way I play now. You really notice the speed and the knockback really kept me alive and in the fight. The first couple of runs I died more until I realized I have to stand back a little more because the knockback keeps everything off you. I will change some of my gear to increase me attack speed then I should be ok.
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I only use Windforce when im playing my slow build for fun, where I use cull the weak, entangling shot-shock collar, and frost arrow. But I prefer using my Manticore when I'm power lvling my paragon since I just trample through mobs with multishot. Also with MP 1-10 coming soon, you might want all the dmg you can get. Also Windforce's knockback doesnt work against elites and bigger enemies. You're better off studder stepping or using vault to keep distance between you and the enemy.

But overall I suggest getting a Manticore if you can't hit over 100k dps with the Windforce. In order for a Windforce to be viable, you need good gear to back it up for it's lack of dmg. But if Windforce is your style, you should go ahead and use it, but your dmg potential will go down drastically.
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I just switched from a Windforce to a very minor Manticore, what a difference. Manticore is so much better for damage. And I had a Windforce that was doing 130k, but the manticore can do so much more.
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Manti
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manticore FTW.

There are 2 obivous reason for me:
1. 2h xbow give u steady damage.
2. The crowd control is not gonna help u deal with elites.
Edited by HenryHung#1702 on 10/13/2012 11:00 PM PDT
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seems like manticore is the pretty obvious choices to most people.

updated question 5 and 6 in the first post.
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I shall come in and cast a vote for WF XD

well if your are looking at dmg, manti is obvious answer, and you actually have more built diversity with manti, because with wf i am lock down to the few high rate skill to fully utilized my kb.

crowd control still helps with elites though unlike what henry hung mention, only exception is the the yellow champ boss in yellow pack, and those fat looking mob cant be knock back too (tremor,griegor,mallet lords etc)

I am having fun with the knockback and speed, but that my personal preference, if anything good for wf is that half the time i can push all mob away from me so save me some time kiting, also, it's ridiculous good for doing monster kill streak with ball lightning in keep 2, since i kept pushing the mob into the next room.
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For me I pick WF. Had a manti with 2 socket. Too slow. With my WF I can still do 140k dps without ss.
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I shall come in and cast a vote for WF XD

well if your are looking at dmg, manti is obvious answer, and you actually have more built diversity with manti, because with wf i am lock down to the few high rate skill to fully utilized my kb.

crowd control still helps with elites though unlike what henry hung mention, only exception is the the yellow champ boss in yellow pack, and those fat looking mob cant be knock back too (tremor,griegor,mallet lords etc)

I am having fun with the knockback and speed, but that my personal preference, if anything good for wf is that half the time i can push all mob away from me so save me some time kiting, also, it's ridiculous good for doing monster kill streak with ball lightning in keep 2, since i kept pushing the mob into the next room.


+1
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-1 Manticore
-1 Windforce
+1 Calamity
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-1 Manticore
-1 Windforce
-1 Calamity
+1 Godly Rare

No point overpaying for branded goods in this game
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Windforce is actually better for most builds. You need a reason not to attack fast (hatred cost on Multishot, perhaps) to justify Manticore over Windforce.

The only exception are those insane 2-socket Manticores, but that's only a small fraction of the Manticore population. The 1-socket Mantis get far more love than they deserve.

lightning edit: The guy above is right when it comes to 1-socket Manticores. Windforce? Can't find 45% knockback on a rare. Calamity? That Marked for Death thing is pretty unique. Manticore? You can get all that stuff on a rare, unless it's the 2-socket version.
Edited by ScrotieMcB#1797 on 10/14/2012 11:12 PM PDT
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I say Wf, but I'm a bow user and have a nice one. I also don't know what people mean about the knockback not working on elites, champion packs it works on, only rares and uniques are immune to the knockback. Also the larger mobs, while not getting knocked back , will go through the animation and get knocked up and back maybe like a yard which prevents them from hitting you.
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Absolutely can't do without my Windforce. I've been playing around a lot lately and found something really useful. I've been using Entangling Shot with Shock Collar, in which I have +26% damage from Quiver and SoJ. But that didn't seem to work as good with Ball Lightning for some reason. So after some messing around I re-discovered Nether Tentacles. I honestly thinking that it has a better knockback proc plus it feels like it does more damage. This setup seems to work very well together. I can pretty much faceroll Act 3 while farming. Nether tentacles is powerful enough to at least hold the big enemies in their place, unlike other skills. Also have about 10.4 hatred regen with Bat so I can almost spam Nether.

Trying to get plenty of regen, brooding is a big help, seems to work really well the more Life % you have. If I get low on life I can run away for 2 seconds and jump right back in.
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WF all the way, manticore is really good for damage burst. but versatility goes to WF. Plus it looks awesome.

Dont get me wrong manticore still means serious business.
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