Diablo® III

Throw + Rend + Traditional WW

Skill calculator: https://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#fhcRUP!fZY!aZbYZc

Introduction:

This build is a melee, range, and AoE/DoT variant. It is an advanced method to do four things:
1) Provide a fury utility in Weapon Throw that doesn't:
i) Knockback;
ii) Require tanking in elemental DoT environments -- i.e., Frenzy is great for stacked attacks, but requires stationary monsters to work effectively;
iii) ... limit attack versatility -- you can ranged attack when Whirlwind cannot work on walkers/casters
... and it's great because it:
2) ... extends the Massacre streak (looking at you XP farmers!)
3) ... broaden the Double Tornado's damage utility to lessen downtime between packs;
4) ... provide AoE damage

Why Weapon Throw?

In terms of fury generation, there is nothing better. It's great because once battle rage is up, there's no downtime on fury generation/building. Each critical hit adds 29 fury with the No Escape passive active. Compared to Bash's Instigation -- which is 12 per hit, or other variants, Weapon Throw should be the main fury builder and generation. The utility is so versatile, that it actually does *more* damage over seconds than bash due to no knockback conditions that stalls the damage.

In addition to the above, with No Escape passive up, you're doing 130% + 10% passive weapon damage with Weapon Throw + an additional 39% damage using Mighty Throw rune. Added up, that's 179% weapon damage vs. 165% weapon damage from Bash's natural damage and Frenzy's five stack requirements.

More importantly, it holds a natural slow effect of 60% over two seconds. Hello, Goblins!

Testing?

To be clear, I haven't really tested this at the lower levels. I farm at MP9 to accelerate my looting (I do believe that the looting system by-passes lower MPs due to the higher MF% -- however, my view on this topic is unreliable because I prefer to see my effort rewarded every run). Lorenze made a good point saying that at 400% MF in lower MPs, you're getting 100 elite kills vs. 40 elite kills at MP9 in the same time frame. I think this is DPS dependent, so consider this a warning not to take my farming choice to heart. I just farm at the higher MPs because it's a challenge to do it faster and faster.

Kick-starting the build:

The key to starting this build is simple. Generate enough fury from taking damage and making melee strike to gain enough fury to get Battle Rage up. Once done, another strike or two should give you enough fury resource to hit sprint on the monsters attacking you. You should be able to generate enough fury from one casting of tornadoes to get Wrath up. After that, it's clear sailing.

On why this build is efficient:

The rule of thumb for farming efficiency has always been one to two passes. At my MP level, I'm using two to three passes or so within different packs to accelerate and accumulate the XP bonuses necessary for a Massacre streak. Rend's Lacerate allows you to deal out DoT damage over five seconds (903% weapon damage) once a cluster has been worn down enough that one sweep of Rend will cause most, if not all, to die. This five second window is what Alkaizer used in his paragon farming runs to build up such large streaks and be the first to hit Paragon Level 100. One could conceivably use Ravage for wider AOE, but I find that unnecessary most of the time because I want to utilize the extra 203% damage since most trash will have descended on my position anyway.

In addition, it's great for allowing players the option of spamming Throws for range damage against casters/walkers and DoT damage on them as well to continue carrying a massacre streak. Rend is an EXCELLENT anti-elite AOE DoT damage skill.

The No Escape passive allows continuous fury generation of up to 29 per critical hit, meaning that one or two taps of Battle Rage and Sprint will quickly reset the Wrath timer, allowing you to carry on. What hasn't been tested is how much critical hit chance is necessary to endure consistent fury generation.

The Route:

Permanent wrath is NOT an issue. Mob density is the issue. So I have revised my route to go through:

Keeps 3 --> Keeps 2 --> Fields of Slaughter --> Rakki's Crossing

I keep this short and sweet.

I would welcome different routes for other considerations if one could come up with a great one that differs from Alkaizer's route.

Boohaha's summary on the play-style and whether it is worth the gear investment:
I thought I would add my $0.02 to Acrimony's post, perhaps explain some of the theory and practiced playstyles to those who are unaware or do not have the gear to test this before seriously investing:

Introduction:
I made an earlier post about Throw/WW barbs, essentially is a WW barb, but uses throw weapon as a fury generator instead of the traditional generator.

Seismac slam VS. HotA VS. Rend
For those wondering the effectiveness of Seismac slam, HotA, or Rend, I would say Rend is the most effective. As a traditional throw/ww barb (perhaps, we can coin a new term called "Throw Whirldwind" or Tww) Rend (lifesteal or increased damage) is very necessary because no matter how much you fear (echoing fury) or slow (throw weapon inherently slow, or cold soj) phase beasts and ubers will always be melee range. That being said, Rend (lifesteal) will allow you to tank melee range and elite/uber AOEs.

Seismic Slam IS fun. There is nothing more satisfying than doing a huge almost-1-million seismic slam crit that one-shots everything it touches in a wide cone (20 monsters killed in 1 hit). However, when you face any elite able to close the distance, your seismic slam will often miss many of the mobs and hence, Rend's pointblank AOE (PbAOE) is much more effective.

HotA I have yet to try.

300th spear and it use
Someone also mentioned 300th spear. The moment you swap your offhand from godly-offhand-of-stack-stickiness to 300th spear, you will be using throw weapon as your main damage doer because the stats of 300th spear are, at best, subpar. Not to mention the 1.2 attack speed (compared to 1.3 for axe, 1.4 for sword, or 1.5 daggers) will not allow you to WW effectively. You can still WW and keept WotB up (I occasionally practice this) but it is difficult and I am watching my fury orb more than the actual fight.

Throw Weapon as a fury sink
What I suppose would be more efficient is to (someone mentioned this earlier) use weapon throw as a fury sink (instead of spamming Sprint and Battle Rage) by using either Mighty Weapon rune for damage, or the Hammer rune for stunlocking. With all your IAS gear that you WW barbs use, spamming Hammer for stunlocking/slowing ranged elites allows you the time to run up to them to do your serious WW business. It also has a fast animation compared to something like Seismic Slam, and hits for almost-as-hard without knocback. Knockback is annoying if you are a WW barb.

Throw Weapon as a fury generator
As for fury generators, which someone mentioned earlier, I believe that fury generators ARE a crutch if you use them to generate fury (weird huh). However, if you utilize fury generators for their rune's effects (Frenzy's Maniac rune, or Bash's um..... same +damage rune), then the utiltiy offsets that low damage of fury generators. From my experience, I believe that weapon throw may be the #1 fury generator because of its insanely high damage (for a fury generator) is RANGED (htiting ranged elites that kite you, hitting MP10 ZK while he sits in his bubbles, hitting MP10 Magda while she sits in a corner with 5 arcane lasers around her) and extremely high fury return.

An effective use of Throw Weapon as fury generator
Therefore, I may bold in stating that for any WW barb (or the most effective build for very-geared PvM barbs), the most effective fury generator (as somoene had mentioned) is to use Weapon Throw (Mighty Throw or Hammer rune) combined with passive No Escape and your Battle Rage (Into the Fray rune) to shoot fury generation up to 29 per crit (100% proc ratio on weapon throw's Mighty Throw and Hammer rune). Given high end gear; 50% crit ratio and 400% crit damage, you big hits and big fury regen, thus increasing your fury-regen quality of life. It's also ranged - it slows or can stun if you rune it that way. It is only single target, but when you face MP10, you're mostly only aiming to hit the boss anyway. When you are doing elites, your normal WW/Sprint will AOE everything else down.

Other builds as effective as Tww (throw whirldwind):
Someone mentioned using HotA. Although I have yet to test this, I do not think it is as effective as WW simply because WW ignores unit collision. This implies being able to WW out of dense mobs that force you into arcane lasers or molten explosions on MP10.
Edited by acrimony#1561 on 1/25/2013 1:04 PM PST
Reply Quote
ahh yeah this is the build i've been using for mp8 ubers. awesome when u perm stun kulle with wep throw.
Reply Quote
still don't get it ^^
Furthermore isn't it better to use overpower killing spree instead of rend ?
You :
1. don't have to stop
2. reset wotb timer easier
3. roughly achieve the same dps

Assuming your gear is good enough to be able to over overpower instead of warcry

4. raise ehp high enough so that you don't need to be ranged in some situations / or have to buy the spear ?
Edited by Gdop8#2211 on 10/28/2012 6:08 AM PDT
Reply Quote
Farm mp8-9? rofl.... Mp8 is not only not viable, it's terrible noob. Nice paragon and elite kills. Rmah hero? Ps that spec is stupid
Reply Quote
There is absolutely ZERO reason that anyone should be EXP farming on MP9, it's not even remotely efficient and will never come close to the efficiency of lower MP levels.

Edit: I realize you said EXP wasn't your prerogative, but it is for many barbs and your name generally carries weight on these forums. Would be nice if you accurately informed barbs that your spec (or at least the way you're using it) is not efficient for EXP farming.
Edited by rob#1690 on 10/28/2012 6:43 AM PDT
Reply Quote
Mp9 is definitely not good for XP farming not even 8
Best xp farming is at lvl 3 (with my gear) mp2 with someone else's gear or mp5 (or i dont know ^^) with acrimoney's gear
Reply Quote
still don't get it ^^
Furthermore isn't it better to use overpower killing spree instead of rend ?
You :
1. don't have to stop
2. reset wotb timer easier
3. roughly achieve the same dps

Assuming your gear is good enough to be able to over overpower instead of warcry

4. raise ehp high enough so that you don't need to be ranged in some situations / or have to buy the spear ?


I was also skeptical about rend, but it's amazing give it a go. Sure there's a stop in animation but you basically are able to stand in the middle of a pack hit rend and WW out and forget about them and they'll die. I use it to finish off waste that my tornadoes don't do, Killing Spree is awesome but it doesn't have the AOE of Rend. Rend also works with LS so while you're running away from the pack you're being healed, this is without the bloodlust rune.
Reply Quote
I was also skeptical about rend, but it's amazing give it a go. Sure there's a stop in animation but you basically are able to stand in the middle of a pack hit rend and WW out and forget about them and they'll die. I use it to finish off waste that my tornadoes don't do, Killing Spree is awesome but it doesn't have the AOE of Rend. Rend also works with LS so while you're running away from the pack you're being healed, this is without the bloodlust rune.


Overpower does do AOE damage, it's just instant, not damage over time....I'm assuming this is what you meant?

Rend is a great skill to work into a WW build, but one could make that same argument for overpower. acrimony's reasoning behind using rend is to extend kill streaks, but it can also be used to strike running mobs and kill them as they get away, and it can be used as an effective fury dump for perma-zerker and overpower can't do those things.

Overpower has advantages in that it doesn't make you stop WWing, it gives you a 10% crit boost to all your skills with killing spree or a really large boost to fury generation, defense, or life regeneration with other runes, it does not cost fury to use, it is spammable with the right amount of crit chance, and the damage it causes is instant.

There are reasons to use either skill, it all hinges on personal play style and what the players needs are.
Reply Quote
Just tried this in MP5 and it's working pretty well... Not sure on lower MPs
Reply Quote
10/28/2012 06:14 AMPosted by T0ny0
Farm mp8-9? rofl.... Mp8 is not only not viable, it's terrible noob. Nice paragon and elite kills. Rmah hero? Ps that spec is stupid


Talking smack to someone with better gear and numbers than yours? Don't use RMAH. I just happen to be smarter than you.

There is absolutely ZERO reason that anyone should be EXP farming on MP9, it's not even remotely efficient and will never come close to the efficiency of lower MP levels.

Edit: I realize you said EXP wasn't your prerogative, but it is for many barbs and your name generally carries weight on these forums. Would be nice if you accurately informed barbs that your spec (or at least the way you're using it) is not efficient for EXP farming.


Why wouldn't it be efficient for XP farming at lower level? Just out of curiosity.
Reply Quote
Bump.

After doing a few more runs, I can't really see why this is questionable. Other than the initial fury generation -- which WayneOld alluded to -- this is pretty OP.
Reply Quote
@Acrimony.
So you're smarter then me and you're gear has better stats. Ok lets go there.
I have more attack speed and crit chance you have more ehp. Right?
You are sub 80 paragon with a purple gem in helm. Those pants have no dps stats. I mean 50 strength really? And those lacunis have no crit. And a immortal kings helm. So if looking at it from a tanking perspective? So yea gratz on the overkill in ehp.
So onto the smarter then me part lol. Less then 40k elite kills.Meaning less items found overall. Meaning A:really lucky on drops. B:rmah Or c:not making money on rmah.. I think its a combitation of the 3. So the question becomes play to win? Or pay to lose. I have redone my gear 3 times selling everything and redoing it. This last time i did it. I made a 1.2bil budget. (yes this gear on my character cost 1.2bil only) Why do i try and have a small budget one may ask, is because i value my rmah sales more then gear on my character(or as you may say toon) Because to me gear is not my p3ni$ unlike you.

If you are wondering where all this is coming from ill tell you.
Its because i have read you're posts and i think you are a arrogant little a hole that thinks you are good at this game. You make yourself look like a fool and someone needs to bring you back down to earth. I knew the 1st thing you would do with my post is gear bash and i was right. You are too predictable.
Ps that tank sk walk post made me dislike you more then ever. Gj
Reply Quote
+Vouch

I was just with Acrimony while he was doing these runs... and the speed of this build at which he runs it is amazing. I had my doubts at first but after trying it, i dont see what could beat this.

There is literally no mob that could get away from this build. The WW/nado and rend make very quick work of large dense mobs, and the more annoying, running, and kiting mobs die fast to weapon throw.

Never once did i notice fury starvation. Not to mention perm-wotb.
Reply Quote
@Acrimony.
So you're smarter then me and you're gear has better stats. Ok lets go there.
I have more attack speed and crit chance you have more ehp. Right?
You are sub 80 paragon with a purple gem in helm. Those pants have no dps stats. I mean 50 strength really? And those lacunis have no crit. And a immortal kings helm. So if looking at it from a tanking perspective? So yea gratz on the overkill in ehp.
So onto the smarter then me part lol. Less then 40k elite kills.Meaning less items found overall. Meaning A:really lucky on drops. B:rmah Or c:not making money on rmah.. I think its a combitation of the 3. So the question becomes play to win? Or pay to lose. I have redone my gear 3 times selling everything and redoing it. This last time i did it. I made a 1.2bil budget. (yes this gear on my character cost 1.2bil only) Why do i try and have a small budget one may ask, is because i value my rmah sales more then gear on my character(or as you may say toon) Because to me gear is not my p3ni$ unlike you.

If you are wondering where all this is coming from ill tell you.
Its because i have read you're posts and i think you are a arrogant little a hole that thinks you are good at this game. You make yourself look like a fool and someone needs to bring you back down to earth. I knew the 1st thing you would do with my post is gear bash and i was right. You are too predictable.
Ps that tank sk walk post made me dislike you more then ever. Gj


We got off on the wrong foot due to your misinterpretation of my original post, which said I didn't care whether it was efficient or not.

Whether you choose to admit that you picked the fight first, I don't really care. Attack me, I'll attack you. And for the record, that SK tank thread was a troll post with a point to be made. The damage nerf was unnecessary.

Edit: Gear bashing? You attacked the spec without even trying it at the lower levels, which is what I asked people to do in the first place. Not my issue if you can't keep wrath up. WayneOld rolls out a similar non-fury building one. Is his spec stupid? L2P.
Edited by acrimony#1561 on 10/28/2012 5:20 PM PDT
Reply Quote
hey acrimony~~

Is there any requirements to do this? Like - throw fury or antyhing?
Reply Quote
hey acrimony~~

Is there any requirements to do this? Like - throw fury or antyhing?


No. To be honest, I haven't actually tried the build with a fury reducer on my belt/ring. I can maintain it just fine. I'm actually about to show someone how I use the skill. Going to go down to MP8 just to see how much more efficient it is.

www.twitch.tv/acrimony1561

And for the record, I agree, I'm pretty arrogant lol
Reply Quote
I did pick a fight i'll admit that. You come off as being an a hole. All i'm trying to say is that you're gear nor my gear or anyone else that trolls these forums is the "best". So dont act that way.

There is no point to have "the best gear" since its all pixels. Efficiency or e peen becomes the question. Having nice gear is fine altho why try and draw attention to yourself and make barbs in general look bad? People hate the Barb community enough as is.

About the mp8-9 farming topic. Its been tried and proven that low mp is more viable then high mp for magic finding and leveling. Mp8 is pointless no matter what gear and dps you have. Try going a whole day on mp1-2 with 200k dps and see what happens. More elite kills,more white kills,= more exp and gear.
Reply Quote
I did pick a fight i'll admit that. You come off as being an a hole. All i'm trying to say is that you're gear nor my gear or anyone else that trolls these forums is the "best". So dont act that way.

There is no point to have "the best gear" since its all pixels. Efficiency or e peen becomes the question. Having nice gear is fine altho why try and draw attention to yourself and make barbs in general look bad? People hate the Barb community enough as is.

About the mp8-9 farming topic. Its been tried and proven that low mp is more viable then high mp for magic finding and leveling. Mp8 is pointless no matter what gear and dps you have. Try going a whole day on mp1-2 with 200k dps and see what happens. More elite kills,more white kills,= more exp and gear.


I get roughly two legendaries/sets on average per run at MP9. XP farming is the least of my priorities. The XP gains on MP9, however, is pretty huge and I think at sufficient gear and damage, it's more than enough on a per run for loot/XP basis.

It's not about the gear -- it's about inherent satisfaction with the build you're playing. I had this argument already and I made it clear that efficiency should be based on the player's preference; not the common trend of maximum efficiency via XP.
Reply Quote
I have been using this built. Swapping overpower to Rend sometimes switching between this two. Handles mp4-5 very fine. Didn't bother to farm mp 6 or anything above. Feel to slow.

Mighty throw is a good option. It procs back fury way faster than richot rune even when it hits 3 targets, not to mention on a single target elite.
Edited by Horngyuh80#6218 on 10/28/2012 6:02 PM PDT
Reply Quote
http://www.twitch.tv/acrimony1561/b/337262211

Start at 7 minutes in. Bad quality due to game lag when I stream, so I had to keep the quality low. Still easy to see the crits and attack animations though.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]