Diablo® III

The Immortal Words of Old School (Itemization)

02/28/2013 03:12 AMPosted by Mist3rHyde
Yep my bad, it's just that they could easily rename it all to "+X% damage", since the denomination has absolutely no impact on the game whatsoever. I mean, who cares if it's poison or physical or lightning, it changes nothing.


No then it just becomes a Universal Buff. The idea is to buff it so specific skills which are underused will get used. Every attack in game is based on a "School" of damage.

But from how they've been buffing underused abilities so far. I hope they are a little more generous when doing it. A crap skill gaining 20% dps buff(example) is normally still a crap skill.
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Really good post. I agree 100%

Its funny that you mention you had diablo in your best man speech.My wife said something about sticking with me even when diablo 4 is released,in her vows. Its kinda funny that a game could impact people so much that they would think to have it as a small part of their wedding.
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This is a great and constructive thread which brings up both a lot of good ideas and valid points. Items is a topic of conversation on a daily basis, we talk about where they are currently, where we want them to be, and how to get them there. Some of the future changes involve making item affixes that aren’t currently good into something that at least some players are really excited to see. A good example of this is Pickup Radius and Witch Doctors. Sure not everyone wants a lot of Pickup Radius on their gear but there are some specs of WD that love it and want as much as possible and we want to expand that idea further. Thorns is a good example of a stat that, at its core has potential, but in reality falls short. While we plan to improve thorns by allowing a players primary stat to increase its damage, we have other plans that help further embrace thorns for specific classes and specs.

Increasing the availability of skill specific affixes and school damage affixes is also something we plan on doing. They have the potential to open up more fun and varied character builds as well as simply giving players another way to improve abilities they enjoy. An example that has worked previously is Zombie Dogs and Sacrifice using Zombie Dog cooldown items, Wall of Zombies cooldown items with Pile On, and Hammer of Ancients with cost reduction items. We like that these builds exist and want to open up even more builds by virtue of expanding the availability of these affixes.

We want items to make you feel more powerful but more importantly we want players to feel like items can be game changers. We want players to find items and think to themselves “whoa I wanna try making a spec for this item” or “oh man I’m totally gonna level a Monk to use this thing”. Improving the overall feel of the Diablo item game is something that is incredibly important to us and is receiving a lot of attention from our development team because it's important to you all as well.


THIS IS a 5 months old THREAD...
Where have you been...
Edited by WhiteBootz#6395 on 2/28/2013 5:31 AM PST
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THIS IS a 5 months old THREAD...
Where have you been...


Might as well have been bashing their heads against the wall trying to fix itemization on their own not knowing there have been good solutions posted here all along.

As far as I know, this may well be the first time Blizzard has actually responded to such well written posts by the OP. Such level of disconnect between the players and them, it is disturbing.
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OK, The problem is that Crits, stats are FAR too IMPORTANT that it undermines every other Affix..
For god sake, Today Crit and Stat is the only build every one is making.
Its all about crits crits and crits...
And stats stats stats stats...
Is there any OTHER way?

You cant just plainly BUFF those other affix, you need to remake them to the point that it was worth sacrificing Stats ans Crits...
And itemization, every legendary should have a unique mechanics....
The builds should be defined on Items.
Not just plain STAT and Crits stacking like we have today...
Reduction on Hota currently are miniscule and not worthy to compensate the loss of one item affix for it.

And whats the point of having paragon level....

This is personal preference...
And give more customization. Maybe Talents tree..
Give us a reason to make 2 monk...
Edited by WhiteBootz#6395 on 2/28/2013 6:03 AM PST
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02/27/2013 06:20 PMPosted by Travis Day
We want players to find items and think to themselves “whoa I wanna try making a spec for this item” or “oh man I’m totally gonna level a Monk to use this thing”. Improving the overall feel of the Diablo item game is something that is incredibly important to us and is receiving a lot of attention from our development team because it's important to you all as well.


This is what we want too!! I stopped playing before I even made it through nightmare because the game just became a bore. I wanted to be a non-AH player, but the drops just weren't happening. I've come back to see how all the patches have changed the game and while it's interested me enough to clear inferno (granted...i've given up not using the AH....seems to be impossible to progress w/out AH unless you farm gear for hrs and hrs and hrs) I foresee myself getting a bit bored after clearing inferno and doing farm routes only to find meh gear.

A post like this however, gives me hope that this game will have some longevity, and hopefully will give me enough motivation to level up some other classes while i wait for these changes to happen.
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The only way I can see it solving it is if the item can only roll one or the other and each held equal stat weight.

Then it would be a choice rather than a mandate.

IMO, items should have never been allowed to roll Crit, Crit Damage, and IAS on the same item. It should have been one or the other, and it's up to the player to balance them.

Itemization is bad because there's no balance and so therefore any item that doesn't have all 3 of these qualities (Or any combination of whatever they can actually roll) has no intrinsic value.

In other words, unless you have to choose between one or the other, items will still be "bad."


I agree. Or make some formula, where CHC, CHD and IAS are connected and gives a number, and that number can't exceed an another number that is defined by Blizzard.

02/28/2013 02:51 AMPosted by Aphraell
What do you mean by "school damage" ?


Fire, Arcane, Lightning, Poison, Physical.


Idea for elements on weapons/items:

Cold: chance to slow / freeze
Fire: chance to spread to nearby enemy/enemies
Lightning: chance to Stun
Poison: reduced damage
Arcane: reduced resistance

Also i liked that when a class could use a weapon faster, then other classes. And 2 handed long weapons had greater reach which was excelent for some skills. Dual handing felt more sophisticated too.
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This is a great and constructive thread which brings up both a lot of good ideas and valid points. Items is a topic of conversation on a daily basis, we talk about where they are currently, where we want them to be, and how to get them there. Some of the future changes involve making item affixes that aren’t currently good into something that at least some players are really excited to see. A good example of this is Pickup Radius and Witch Doctors. Sure not everyone wants a lot of Pickup Radius on their gear but there are some specs of WD that love it and want as much as possible and we want to expand that idea further. Thorns is a good example of a stat that, at its core has potential, but in reality falls short. While we plan to improve thorns by allowing a players primary stat to increase its damage, we have other plans that help further embrace thorns for specific classes and specs.

Increasing the availability of skill specific affixes and school damage affixes is also something we plan on doing. They have the potential to open up more fun and varied character builds as well as simply giving players another way to improve abilities they enjoy. An example that has worked previously is Zombie Dogs and Sacrifice using Zombie Dog cooldown items, Wall of Zombies cooldown items with Pile On, and Hammer of Ancients with cost reduction items. We like that these builds exist and want to open up even more builds by virtue of expanding the availability of these affixes.

We want items to make you feel more powerful but more importantly we want players to feel like items can be game changers. We want players to find items and think to themselves “whoa I wanna try making a spec for this item” or “oh man I’m totally gonna level a Monk to use this thing”. Improving the overall feel of the Diablo item game is something that is incredibly important to us and is receiving a lot of attention from our development team because it's important to you all as well.


Diablo 2 didn't have this issue. All you had to do was copy items from Diablo 2 and we'd be YEARS ahead of where we are now, instead of your team trying to do it your "own" way.
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I absolutely love the idea that any stat stacks damage as if it were your main stat. Could you imagine a dodge based CM wiz???? Such a simple fix to a hugely complex problem. Bravo OP and original OP of the idea.
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02/28/2013 06:55 AMPosted by ssanyesz
Or make some formula, where CHC, CHD and IAS are connected and gives a number, and that number can't exceed an another number that is defined by Blizzard.

You mean something like a hidden cap?

It would work, but all it's going to do is upset a lot of people. It's better when the system's mechanics are out in the open for all to see and not buried beneath the code.

Hidden mechanics don't necessarily fly well.
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You mean something like a hidden cap?

It would work, but all it's going to do is upset a lot of people. It's better when the system's mechanics are out in the open for all to see and not buried beneath the code.

Hidden mechanics don't necessarily fly well.


Yes a limiter, but not hidden. And not for each seperatly, but altogether. Then the players can notice when the value closing to its limit.

For example:
Max CHC CHD IAS bonus = 100 or 150 or 200 or X points.
+10% IAS = 25 points
+10% CHC = 25 points
+25% CHD = 10 points
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First off, thanks for responding! I didn’t think it was going to happen but this response gives hope to anyone who cares about itemization. A lot of my suggestions were just examples of where I would like to see itemization go and it seems like you guys have a lot of the same expectations.

02/27/2013 06:20 PMPosted by Travis Day
Sure not everyone wants a lot of Pickup Radius on their gear but there are some specs of WD that love it and want as much as possible and we want to expand that idea further.

Really happy to see there are plans to take this concept further.

02/27/2013 06:20 PMPosted by Travis Day
While we plan to improve thorns by allowing a players primary stat to increase its damage, we have other plans that help further embrace thorns for specific classes and specs.

I would love to see some viable thorns builds.

02/27/2013 06:20 PMPosted by Travis Day
Increasing the availability of skill specific affixes and school damage affixes is also something we plan on doing. They have the potential to open up more fun and varied character builds as well as simply giving players another way to improve abilities they enjoy.

This is huge! This is probably the most important concept in itemization in my opinion. People want to be able to stand out for certain skills. I think this is the only way to do that!

02/27/2013 06:20 PMPosted by Travis Day
Improving the overall feel of the Diablo item game is something that is incredibly important to us and is receiving a lot of attention from our development team because it's important to you all as well.

I cant wait for some big itemization changes to start to make its way into the game. Thanks again for responding and I cant wait for the "ask the devs" on itemization.
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02/28/2013 07:43 AMPosted by Drothvader
Or make some formula, where CHC, CHD and IAS are connected and gives a number, and that number can't exceed an another number that is defined by Blizzard.

You mean something like a hidden cap?

It would work, but all it's going to do is upset a lot of people. It's better when the system's mechanics are out in the open for all to see and not buried beneath the code.

Hidden mechanics don't necessarily fly well.


If anybody has any doubts that what Drothvader is saying is true, just look at the frustration the proc coefficients has brought about for most players in this game. They're hidden, make certain skills useless, and basically just kill many builds. It isn't fun, and it definitely doesn't feel like Diablo.

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+1 to OP's ideas and at last a BLUE is responding positively and giving hope to ppl who are waiting this game to bloom.
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This is a great and constructive thread which brings up both a lot of good ideas and valid points. Items is a topic of conversation on a daily basis, we talk about where they are currently, where we want them to be, and how to get them there. Some of the future changes involve making item affixes that aren’t currently good into something that at least some players are really excited to see. A good example of this is Pickup Radius and Witch Doctors. Sure not everyone wants a lot of Pickup Radius on their gear but there are some specs of WD that love it and want as much as possible and we want to expand that idea further. Thorns is a good example of a stat that, at its core has potential, but in reality falls short. While we plan to improve thorns by allowing a players primary stat to increase its damage, we have other plans that help further embrace thorns for specific classes and specs.

Increasing the availability of skill specific affixes and school damage affixes is also something we plan on doing. They have the potential to open up more fun and varied character builds as well as simply giving players another way to improve abilities they enjoy. An example that has worked previously is Zombie Dogs and Sacrifice using Zombie Dog cooldown items, Wall of Zombies cooldown items with Pile On, and Hammer of Ancients with cost reduction items. We like that these builds exist and want to open up even more builds by virtue of expanding the availability of these affixes.

We want items to make you feel more powerful but more importantly we want players to feel like items can be game changers. We want players to find items and think to themselves “whoa I wanna try making a spec for this item” or “oh man I’m totally gonna level a Monk to use this thing”. Improving the overall feel of the Diablo item game is something that is incredibly important to us and is receiving a lot of attention from our development team because it's important to you all as well.


Travis have you been reading my posts? I wrote almost exactly the same thing you did just there about why pick-up radius' synergy with thing of the deep and grave injustice is good design and why thorns isn't working. ;)

Life on kill is another affix that needs to be looked at too, but it's tricky to imagine how it can be fixed as it's something that's always going to work best when a player is already killing stuff quickly anyway and thus probably don't need the extra life. Perhaps something like a passive could be made to give synergy to it eg- for monks for every 100 points of life on kill you get 1 spirit regen on kill (as monks need a few more passives anyway). This could be nice for monks who use spirit heavy builds like wave of light and would make a completely shunned affix actually sought-after by some.
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Great post OP! Glad to see a thread about items started in a positive light. I also quite like your idea for Illusionist thorns.

This is a great and constructive thread which brings up both a lot of good ideas and valid points...


It is really comforting to see a d3 game designer post in here! I know all of the d3 forum posters will really appreciate the fact you guys are reading these threads. It is a big concern to these players that Blizz does not listen. Judging from posts like these, and recent patches, they do listen.

I really like the direction D3 is going and am eagerly anticipating future patches as well as the itemization changes everybody has been waiting for.
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02/27/2013 06:20 PMPosted by Travis Day
Thorns is a good example of a stat that, at its core has potential, but in reality falls short.


Make thorns return the damage it deals as life (or even a percentage of the damage it deals) and you make it pretty interesting / worth while to pick up as a stat.
Edited by Skeeks#1791 on 2/28/2013 12:31 PM PST
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Gotta say tho it is refreshing to see an actual game dev responding to a post on the forums. Let's hope it leads to something
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