Diablo® III

The Immortal Words of Old School (Itemization)

It makes me sad to see the hyperdramatic thread riddled with nonsense constantly remaining on the front page of the general discussion forum but work like this being forgotten.
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+ a million.

A "we have read this & are considering the concepts within" post from a Blizzard employee would be nice.

Try it just once, CM's. Show the paying customers you care.
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+111111111111111111111! request sticky and everything else.

I actually made a topic yesterday, right here: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7179258734
on this same subject, had similar ideas but different suggestions. here goes my text:

Well, Itemization and loot in general is probably the most important aspect in a game like Diablo III.
It's a loot based game after all, and the itemization has very apparent flaws.

There are some simple problems with it, issues that I'll break down and analyse one by one

1 - There's absolutely no balance between item affixes.

The game has reached a point where only a handful of affixes are wanted or useful, basicaly if an item has none or even just one of them, that item isn't useful for anyone in any slot, they are:
Critical Hit Chance
Critical Hit Damage
Increased Attack Speed
Movement Speed
All Resistances
Extra Damage
Life on Hit
Life Steal
Life Regen
% Life
Magic Find
Socket
Main Attribute Bonuses

and... that's it.

An item is good if it rolls 3 or more of those... it has no chance whatsoever to be good if it doesn't and even between this family of good affixes, there are ones that stand out as being even better than the others.

The first problem is how to fix this.
First get rid of the stupid ideas.... Look at the resistances for instance.
All Resists can roll up to 80 on a single equipment piece, ok, that's pretty good and relevant, BUT, single resists can roll up to 60 in a SINGLE resist.
What sense does this make? Both "All Resists" and "Arcane Resist" uses an entire affix slot.... why would "All Resists" be strictly better even in the upper bound?!
Shouldn't "Arcane Resist" be more appealing if it could roll up to 200 in a single item while All Resists remain rolling only up to 80? This way you could have 5 itens giving 200 Fire Resist Each and walk over Molten trails while laughing... This could be relevant just by giving single resists decent numbers to roll.

What about procs? Abilities like Bleed or something.
Bleeding is interesting, but completely negligible as it stands today, it just is NEVER relevant.
Take Skorn for example, it has the absolute BEST Bleed effect in the entire game and it's not even close.

OK, it does something like 10k damage over 5 seconds to almost everything that is hit by any of your attacks...
Seems good? Sure... but well, it isn't.

Take, for example, a really poor geared fella that happened to find a Skorn and bumped his damage to "whooping" 30k DPS.
Now, he attacks a monster for 30k and causes the bleed which will cause like 2k more damage a second!

It's 2k damage more in a 30k universe.... it's really negligible even in this damage level that's way below today's standards.
Most people using a Skorn do at least 70-80k DPS which are DPS levels that make that extra 2k damage per second barely noticeable, no one will EVER look at bleed damage as it was something important...
Make that Bleed damage and all procs take into account the main attribute damage bonus, as it was direct weapon damage. It could never critical or something, but would add a relevant amount of damage.
With 2000 intelligence, a Wizard using Skorn could bleed monsters for a whooping 200k damage over 5 seconds and that would be probably a lot less damage than the actual attacks would do during that same period, but would be a big enough number to make people look at that bleed damage as it was an important attribute of that weapon.

There are a lot more useless affixes such as life on kill or life from globes that are just bad by nature, I mean, it still hardly relevant even if it fill your life by 100% by kill or globe. There's a possibility those cannot even be fixed, so you're probably better of without them.
Why not put back "Resource Leech" or "Resource on Hit"?
Why not make elemental damage relevant?
Why not make new and relevant "proc like" effects?

There's just too many options.

2 - Weapon Types are mostly irrelevant.

Well, when 4 out of 5 classes would like very much to use a perfect echoing fury over anything else, you know something is quite wrong.
I find quite disturbing that Big axes and maces are among the best weapons a WIZARD can use.
Why does crossbows can roll witch doctor skill bonuses and are balanced to be used together with a Quiver which the Witch Doctor cannot use?

Who would ever use a Staff? A Polearm? No one even picks up 2 handed melee weapons anymore just because there's no real advantage for anyone that uses those, the only relevant aspects are bigger Critical hit damage bonuses while sacrificing critical hit chance from off hands nad bigger life steal bonuses...
Still Barbarians and Monks can still get over that with dual wielding weapons with bonuses to life leech and critical, and still have 2 sockets to play around.

2 handed weapons should be able to roll with 2 sockets... All of them, not just Manticore, also the reach of the attacks of those weapons should be bigger in a relevant manner.
A 10% extra damage overall could make those weapons more relevant and wanted.

Something should be done to generate an incentive for classes to use the "right" weapons for them.
For example, Wizards should be able to equip Sources together with staves but no other 2 handed weapons just like demon hunters can equip Quivers with 2 handed Bows and Crossbows.

Witch Doctors could equip Mojos with Crossbows, and finally all of those Manticores with intelligence would finally have a real home.

I'll leave my opinion just like this for now, the text is already pretty long and I have a bunch more ideas to share, I'd just like to see how these first ones are received.
If there's healthy discussion and good feedback, maybe we can come up with a good solution for the bad itemization in this game and even be heard by Blizzard when the expansion comes out.

Thank you very much if you read it all.
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They are great ideas, but they will have to spend years to make this happen. They are not working as fast as this game demands to improve it, and they dont seem confident of what they are doing patch after patch.

This ideas need a lot of brainwork, and i doubt they can handle this.

No offense :D
Edited by Rhaovian#1662 on 11/20/2012 2:42 PM PST
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bump.
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+1 All I can say is that I could not agree more. I am happy to see that someone was willing to take the time to spell this out as it is. I will continue to play and do enjoy diablo3 but I do not think it will ever be as enjoyable for me as diablo2 because it does lack that super ability to make a viable one of a kind character. I do not enjoy the fact that everyone is trying to get the same uninteresting stats on their gear just to be competive.
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I dont know about demon hunters, But as a wizard I cant just change my skills to a CM with my current gear and expect success. And a CM cant just change his skills to an archon build and expect the level of succes that an archon achieves in his/her field.

Wizards do actualy have to gear a certain way to make a certain build work, and with my little experience with a barb I can say the same for them.
Edited by Camisto#1172 on 11/20/2012 6:26 PM PST
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I dont know about demon hunters, But as a wizard I cant just change my skills to a CM with my current gear and expect success. And a CM cant just change his skills to an archon build and expect the level of succes that an archon achieves in his/her field.

Wizards do actualy have to gear a certain way to make a certain build work, and with my little experience with a barb I can say the same for them.


this is true.... BUT, the difference should be less subtle....

to swap between Archon and CM, for example, just exchanging 2 or 3 gear pieces tend to be enough every time.

just swap that Triumvirate/Black Weapon with lots of critical or Skorn for the chantodo set (or wizardspike + Occulus... lol)
and swap your Mempo/Andy's for something with good APOC and you're most likely good to go....

You're swaping from a build that relies on high damage and melting everything fast into a build that just tries to control everything by never let them move....
those are two almost completely oposite philosophies....

and still, you swap one for another changing just 3 of your 12 gear pieces....
You need some details to make a build work, but the gear basics is the same for both CM and Archon... and this is exactly the problem with the itemization...
every build for every class needs the same affixes.
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Great Ideas OldSchool. Hope some of the ideas get picked up for a future patch :)
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+1, A fantastic post. If even one of the many changes you've suggested comes to fruition Diablo 3 will be a better game.
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Good post

Adding in some variation on build will actually help boost the economy of AH. Contrary to someone saying that it will destroy the current gear .

Imagine playing a melee wizard, a magic monk, wow, that is going to be cool. but simply not possible in current D3 situation.

As the op has stated, 80% of the properties on item are useless, everybody wants crit, ias, primary stat, that is the real imbalance in this game.
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+1 for fun builds. I don't need to be them to be efficient, I want them to be fun! heheh
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+1
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In my opinion, with the games current state, no build is viable or optimal anymore; the characters gear measures how optimal they are. This is not a bad thing but a shallow fundamental for this game. The more of these optimal item stats a player stacks the better the character is on the imaginary ladder. All other item stats, indirectly, will make your character weaker because these are areas where more optimal stats could be added. Currently, itemization is robotic and does not reward thought or creativity. The true quality of a character is completely based on this very linear progression. These stats have become more expensive on the auction house and have resulted in pushing players apart. It becomes a game where anyone, can switch to any build, at any time, and be better, based on this narrow itemization focus and zero commitment.

Optimal item stats have become required and destroyed what it means to be viable. Customization should be a way for your character to stand out from the crowd, not be measured against it. I think this will take away from the challenges of PVP when it comes out and emphasize the problem.


I completely agree with this. Char customization must be improved with the addition of other sytems.
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To have written all that while drunk, in proper English nonetheless, makes the OP really deserve their name. Kudos, OldSchool! I did read it all and largely like your ideas (as well as those you've credited others for, too -- how old school of you!) As others have commented, these are pretty radical changes that would require very careful balancing, but that doesn't make them intrinsically bad. I'd also like to see Dex affect block chance and block speed, monks being able to block and deflect projectiles with a daibo or tonfa (new class-specific one-handers), an innate passive that scales with plvl (e.g. barb: stun, dh: pierce, wiz: burh, wd: fear, monk: regen), and some other fun. Oh well, I guess I too have too much time on my hands during the holidays :)
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not just legendaries, or uniques, or rares, but even blue level gear as well. since we arent using stat points anymore, and probably never will in this game, its about time to start adding it to the gear, in a more abundant fashion.

blizzard - it isnt the amount of gear, but the quality of the gear. i think its time to realize we want more quality gear, even if said gear is useless on all levels, having a large pool of randomly generated gear, is better then having more pre programmed gear that does nothing. main stat is boring, let me actually see your false advertised build diversity.
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+ 1 - Great Post. Very well thought out and written!
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