Diablo® III

The Immortal Words of Old School (Itemization)

I hate committing to builds, that means your stuck with a cookie cutter build forever. I like swapping out skills, experimenting. doing so however requires legendaries etc which costs gold.

So experimenting isn't really free. Since weapon switching doesn't exist (or just plain a major inconvenience) your limited enough on build.

I also don't like the idea of rushing another class to lvl60. Couldn't even get my WitchDoc to lvl60 because it was so boring.
Edited by Techies#1508 on 12/13/2012 8:17 AM PST
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12/13/2012 03:43 AMPosted by okComputer
Pickup radius is NOT a worthless stat.

Debatably, there are no worthless stats… That was just an opinion. If you can grasp the overall message I am trying to relay you can see the imbalance when it comes to item affixes. Those are just EXAMPLES of a way to add some creativity to itemization. I can see from your characters that you tend to stack the optimal item stats I listed to improve your character.

Look at your monk. Wouldn’t it be awesome if there were some interesting itemization choices to make that separated you from other players? What if you tried to squeeze pick up radius in on your current set up? Your DPS would go down. Your Defense would go down. Your Survivability would go down. …and what would you get in return? Nothing! If we use the example I listed, your sweeping winds radius would increase… your mantras radius would increase… …or what if you stacked more pick up radius & % damage toward sweeping winds? You would start to be more efficient on the sweeping winds side of things than a random tempest rush monk who maybe stacks % damage toward tempest rush. This is all hypothetical BS but I think it would revolutionize this game and get everyone loving Diablo again. You could start to stand out from a random tempest rush monk standing next to you who decided to copy your build.

We are all just going after these optimal item stats. Some of us are more efficient at doing so and that’s really the only thing that separates the true quality of a character. The itemization in this game set up all the ground work for a fantastic game but has been very poorly executed. Jay said it himself that he would rather play a game that was better executed than innovative. The game play in this game is also fantastic but it doesn’t shine without decent itemization.
Edited by OldSchool#1359 on 12/13/2012 1:11 PM PST
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I hate committing to builds, that means your stuck with a cookie cutter build forever. I like swapping out skills, experimenting. doing so however requires legendaries etc which costs gold.

So experimenting isn't really free. Since weapon switching doesn't exist (or just plain a major inconvenience) your limited enough on build.

I also don't like the idea of rushing another class to lvl60. Couldn't even get my WitchDoc to lvl60 because it was so boring.

Diablo has always been about committing to a particular build. However, I completely agree with you. Being adaptable is fun too and I think this change changed Diablo for the better. If you read the changes I was proposing you would see that it's not aimed toward changing people's current set up or forcing them to commit by any means... It's aimed at some affixes and a particular functionality of those affixes that already exists. I am really just proposing to emphasize it!

You will always be adaptable with the way this game is set up. This is a really good thing, overall, so we don’t have to remake characters. There is always the option to switch your gear and go toward a different build and it's convenient to do so with the convenience of the auction house. There are also rune abilities to switch between if you already have committed to a particular skill and don’t feel like switching items. You also have 6 skill slots! If you committed to one skill and you now want to change up your build, you can still change your other 5 skills and your 3 passives. Above all else, if you are the kind of person who doesnt want to commit to a certain skill by any means, you still wouldnt have to if changes like this were implamented.

You said it yourself… You like to experiment. These itemization changes would just add additional experimentation options! This is end game!
Edited by OldSchool#1359 on 12/13/2012 1:19 PM PST
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- Diablo III (Monk)
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I am sorry it took me so long to read this.

This is the best suggestion post I have ever read on a Diablo3 forum.

I fully support and endorse these changes though I would prefer to see unique modifiers to skills instead of flat +%damage. (Example, I like that my SoJ gives TR CRIT instead of TR damage)

+10000000000000000000000000

-Druin, the happy monk
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12/13/2012 12:44 PMPosted by Druin
I fully support and endorse these changes though I would prefer to see unique modifiers to skills instead of flat +%damage. (Example, I like that my SoJ gives TR CRIT instead of TR damage)


Yes good point. I kinda had that in mind similar to how it is now... Thanks for the support
Edited by OldSchool#1359 on 12/13/2012 7:29 PM PST
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+1 Great Post


EXAMPLES of primary stat changes:

Intelligence Damage Benefit: Peirce the enemy’s resistance & reduces cool downs.
Dexterity Damage Benefit: Increase movement and attack speed.
Strength Damage Benefit: Pure damage boost & increased crowd control chance.


I was thinking of ways to improve upon the undervalued stat system and thought another great way to incorporate stats would have them increase certain elemental damage percentages. For example:

Strength would increase Ice skill damage
Dex would increase lightning skill damage
Intelligence would increase fire and poison skill damage
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I was thinking of ways to improve upon the undervalued stat system and thought another great way to incorporate stats would have them increase certain elemental damage percentages. For example:

Strength would increase Ice skill damage
Dex would increase lightning skill damage
Intelligence would increase fire and poison skill damage

That is an interesting one and the first time I have heard it. I need to let that marinate a bit. :)

One of the elemental damage ideas I had was to clear all elemental damage types from the rune related abilities and have more dynamic type changes from runes and being able to control damage types through socketing gems in the actual skill. I havnt really thought it out and its no simple change by any means so i didnt get into it.
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Great post but I don't think all these changes are necessary. Your problem is more with the lack of legendary elite items in the game. If they would just add 50 - 100 more legendary items and fix the current ones in the game we could achieve build diversity. If every slot you had the option between 10-20 legendaries rather than 1-2 you would see more diverse builds. You can still use any skill in the game as long as you’re not running mp10 solo and you have the right gear.

I saw a monk who had 1000 to all resistances that is unique and is build diversity. The game at its core is about damage which is why the best wizard don's an axe rather than a wand. This could be easily fixed by adding +100% to skill class damages with crit chance. I don't believe the entire weapon calculations is the problem. I believe if they would add runes back in the game and add a socket quest a lot of these issues could be fixed very easily.

If you could socket any item you get via quest or a fixed dollar amount after one use say 1 million you would start to see items people quoted as junk become a lot more feasible. In the re-work of the items they could also just add more random properties to elite lower tier items. They introduced frostburn gauntlets but failed to make them effective in the least if they would have added a couple more magic properties you would see very nice rolled gloves. The base stats on a lot of legendary items also need to be re-worked so that the drops are still random but still effective.

Also bringing back rune wards in equipment with the socketing feature would be just amazing for build diversity. They should have more set items like the ones from d2 where it changed you into a vampire. Legendary items must once again become legendary; meaning they need to bring back lower level legendaries that are viable end game for a certain type of niche. This niche could be life leech, +to skill damage, all resistances, magic find, attack speed, crit chance/damage, vitality, armor there is still tons of options in this game.
Edited by IFranchizeI#1513 on 12/13/2012 2:13 PM PST
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A bump for the deliciousness within
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Great Post, <3 it.
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Great post but I don't think all these changes are necessary. Your problem is more with the lack of legendary elite items in the game. If they would just add 50 - 100 more legendary items and fix the current ones in the game we could achieve build diversity. If every slot you had the option between 10-20 legendaries rather than 1-2 you would see more diverse builds. You can still use any skill in the game as long as you’re not running mp10 solo and you have the right gear.


Not if every legendary is the same or slighter better. They would need to add new affixes that support build diversity to do that, otherwise it would just be a large group of legendaries with trifecta/quadfecta stats and that's all. Boring.
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Great post but I don't think all these changes are necessary. Your problem is more with the lack of legendary elite items in the game. If they would just add 50 - 100 more legendary items and fix the current ones in the game we could achieve build diversity. If every slot you had the option between 10-20 legendaries rather than 1-2 you would see more diverse builds. You can still use any skill in the game as long as you’re not running mp10 solo and you have the right gear.

I saw a monk who had 1000 to all resistances that is unique and is build diversity. The game at its core is about damage which is why the best wizard don's an axe rather than a wand. This could be easily fixed by adding +100% to skill class damages with crit chance. I don't believe the entire weapon calculations is the problem. I believe if they would add runes back in the game and add a socket quest a lot of these issues could be fixed very easily.

If you could socket any item you get via quest or a fixed dollar amount after one use say 1 million you would start to see items people quoted as junk become a lot more feasible. In the re-work of the items they could also just add more random properties to elite lower tier items. They introduced frostburn gauntlets but failed to make them effective in the least if they would have added a couple more magic properties you would see very nice rolled gloves. The base stats on a lot of legendary items also need to be re-worked so that the drops are still random but still effective.

Also bringing back rune wards in equipment with the socketing feature would be just amazing for build diversity. They should have more set items like the ones from d2 where it changed you into a vampire. Legendary items must once again become legendary; meaning they need to bring back lower level legendaries that are viable end game for a certain type of niche. This niche could be life leech, +to skill damage, all resistances, magic find, attack speed, crit chance/damage, vitality, armor there is still tons of options in this game.


IMO there are a number of ways to address the issue. The new legendary patch they did seemed so amazing at the time but we are now at the point where there are 1 or 2 items that are competitive. We cant even consider half of the work they did on legendary items unless we plan on sacrificing a ton of DPS, Defense, or Survivability. Affix balance is the key.

Edit: I don't even want to go into gems or sockets. You said it pretty well... They had 4 gems to balance and does anyone question what gem to add to their weapon? Maybe when you are leveling up a low level char its different but I am speaking from an end game perspective. The choice is as easy as roman noodles.
Edited by OldSchool#1359 on 12/13/2012 7:42 PM PST
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Bump for Friday!
Edited by OldSchool#1359 on 12/14/2012 8:48 AM PST
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The Problem – Optimal Item Stats
Diablo 3 is a game where 100% of your characters customization comes from your gear.


Actually, half the problem is this is totally wrong. Character customization primary comes from what runes you decided to play. The gear just improves the numbers. That's why some people liked D2 system and the gear felt "deeper" If you compare Affixes from D2 to D3, there are no huge differences. But with how your builds are just a choice of playstyle and not a stat/gear dependent build. So it's not so much that itemization is that much worse, it just doesn't fit as nice with Diablo 3's Rune system, plus Primary stats just makes it even worse.

IMO there are a number of ways to address the issue. The new legendary patch they did seemed so amazing at the time but we are now at the point where there are 1 or 2 items that are competitive.


What do we mean by competitive? Like only certain gear gives you that magic DPS to clear MP10?

I think an easy step would be to diminish Primary stats. Why do we even need them? What would happen if we would just remove the damage bonus Primary stats give to each class and then never overall Monster health to balance the loss of DPS?

Now to make Itemization deeper in Diablo 3, gear has to start affecting how we use our skills even more, not just add damage or survivability. What if we start bringing back gear that actually gives anyone access to certain class skills? Seems like an easy thing to add. Or are they actually too worried about PvP balance to be really creative? I think adding more unique abilities to Legendarys is a great start. They just need to go a little further.
Edited by Connatic#1376 on 12/15/2012 1:31 PM PST
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truly godlike ideas.
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great ideas. That said, I sure hope blizzard gets cracking on SOMETHING. The game has become so stale. I think people like the op have done so much of someone's job by giving out these great ideas for nothing.
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To be perfectly honest. All I see are ideas that make the game easier for more people. Easier as in more options to become OP. Unlike D1 & D2 we have the AH/RMAH so when you don't get items you would like from drops, you have the option to use either of the Ah's to gear up from other players drops.

Things I'm sure would make the game better for the majority of players;
1. Item sink - Items that don't sell on either AH/RMAH are removed from the game. This would remove ridiculous prices. Give more players an incentive to buy gold, thus increasing the price of gold. With less items 'in game' since items in the AH's are factored into the item drops, this would increase drop rates without making any adjustments to the mechanics.
2. More gems - Gems with elemental damage, that scale up & give viable options other than crit damage. Maybe even putting some non essential stats into gems. For instance, gold find into a gem. Then players would have to sacrifice a stat for more gold find. Stats in gems that are specific to skills for each character, etc. (it's not adding anything new, just moving around existing things)
3. More content - a lot more content (expected in the expansion)
4. More characters/Classes - 1 would be nice, realistically expecting 3 with the expansion.

Build diversity is already in the game, just most builds aren't viable for high mp levels or even public games. Is that a bad thing though? You try some different builds, the game is still playable. Not efficient, not OP, but still enjoyable if you want a challenge. When I say challenge I don't mean doing exactly the same thing in MP10 as you would in MP1, but it taking 10 minutes longer. I mean a challenge as in having to think about what your doing (there's a big problem right there for some players)

Personally,
In 'the immortal words of old school'. Since it has become obvious that players (people) have become so 'soft'. Catering to that & making things easier for them, isn't doing them any favors.
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i couldn't even read it. too many errors in the first paragraph to go on.
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How do people think any of this is good? All these suggestions are from scrubs that want it easier.
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I suppose you could interpret this as buffs but I could care less about difficulty with the way monster power is now. That was not a result I was aiming for.
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