Diablo® III

Disappointed with Nephalem Valor

It takes too long to get to 5NV in Act 4.
Reply Quote
i don't think nv should be removed, but i think they should remove the NEED to have 5 valors
they should lower the bonus to like 15% and have it just as a mf/gf bonus rather than buffs that you need to have to get keys/drops


I like this and if a lot of people are doing the same type of run patterns isn't that like everyone being in the same part of the game?
Reply Quote
You dont need nephalem valor Lyllira. All you need is item´s drops diversity. You can remove nephalem valor, also people can farm all maps in the world as they want. Maybe you tell me, that cow level was mostly use to farm, but it isnt true. Many players (high players) will tell you that you had dozens of maps and bosses to farm in the world in Diablo 2 and cow level wasnt the best way how to get charms. So, I will tell you my feedback why to remove nephalem valor.

-Gems- Topaz can be dropped only in act 1, ruby only in act 2, emerald only in act 3, amethyst only in act 4.

-Crafting- Every boss have a unique material for crafting, which adds unique abillity to your crafted item. So butcher can drop any part of material, which it gives you +100 dexterity on item. Belial will drop part, which gives you +100 strenght on crafted item. Azmodan will drop material with +100 intelligence bonus. Diablo with +150 vitality bonus. Cydaea can drop material with +20 % crit hit damage. Ghom +6 % attack speed........ much much more

-white items- if I want farm white mobs, I need usability of white items. So bonus from superior items is usable for crafting.


-----much much more, this is only example. By these solutions, you dont need any nephalem valor stacks. Everobody will farm what he wants, in the conditions of time, boredom, fun, challenge.
Edited by zobudeny#2800 on 12/18/2012 7:07 PM PST
Reply Quote
NV once made it possible for all classes to do MF, while you couldn't imagine a bar or else beyond wiz to do such a job in Diablo 2. My idea is, to reduce the stacks to 1 or 2 but remain the same bonus. It's two wins of avoiding <1m games and shorten the boring time spent on stacking NV.
Reply Quote
12/18/2012 06:22 PMPosted by Lylirra
"5 to 10 minutes in length and still be rewarded well" Is that really one of your goals for this game? o wait this is subjective what do you mean by "well" If that is your goal, the please show effort of proving that, right now 5 to 10 minutes will get me like maybe a full bag of crap rares


I think you might have misunderstood. We're saying that's a goal we want to achieve, that it's an improvement we want to make to the game as it exists currently. :)

12/18/2012 06:15 PMPosted by Gunghoe
Also are you just balancing the game around Plvl 100?


No, not "just." We take a lot of different factors and play styles into consideration.
To me 5-10 minutes is not as rewarding as it should be. I guess i miss read you initial post, i thought it meant it is a goal, and was also a past goal... I did not think it was a new goal, so i hope you are correct and will make the game more rewarding, it still favors using the auction house a little too much... though the auction house is a good thing, but NEEDING it for an upgrade, in a timely manner is pretty rubbish. if you do not use it, you could play for hundreds of hours unrewarded, at least by loot... you will find some gold.
Edited by Gunghoe#1987 on 12/18/2012 7:19 PM PST
Reply Quote
One of the problems with NV stacks and MP Lvls is doing key runs.
The amount of runs an MP5 needs to get keys, then there is the chance no body part will drop also, it makes getting a Hellfire ring harder than it should be when compared to an MP10, who by then does not need the ring anyhow.
This game is designed so top Lvls get the best drops, and this makes it very hard for lower lvls to advance, given crazy prices on AH.
Why not let MP1 stack 14 NV for a 100% chance drop, MP2 13 NV etc decreasing 1 each Lvl.
This would give all Lvls a 100% chance for key or body bits, but still requires work to get it.

I have a lot of 2 body bits, and cannot get the 3rd, very frustrating.
Reply Quote
Posts: 7,264
View profile
12/18/2012 05:56 PMPosted by Lylirra
Certainly, one of our goals is to allow people to play game sessions that are about 5 to 10 minutes in length and still be rewarded well


This already exists IMO. Doing a VotA run on a monster power level for which you are overgeared shouldn't take long at all.
Reply Quote
.
Edited by Nocturnal#2168 on 12/18/2012 8:11 PM PST
Reply Quote
12/18/2012 06:22 PMPosted by Lylirra
"5 to 10 minutes in length and still be rewarded well" Is that really one of your goals for this game? o wait this is subjective what do you mean by "well" If that is your goal, the please show effort of proving that, right now 5 to 10 minutes will get me like maybe a full bag of crap rares


I think you might have misunderstood. We're saying that's a goal we want to achieve, that it's an improvement we want to make to the game as it exists currently. :)

12/18/2012 06:15 PMPosted by Gunghoe
Also are you just balancing the game around Plvl 100?


No, not "just." We take a lot of different factors and play styles into consideration.


Whilst we have you in the thread, are there any plans to make Act 4 more rewarding (much higher density of mobs / elites as a start). Currently farming for 5 NV stacks pretty much covers 1/2 the entire act. The Act is simply too small to make running this Act efficient especially given the NV system.
Reply Quote
Posts: 7,264
View profile
I do a pretty lengthy a3 run most of the time, so I think it would be cool if you got a 6th stack for elite kill #12 and a 7th stack for elite kill #20. Just a suggestion.
Reply Quote
Hate to be the wet blanket here, but outside of Key/Uber farming, NV is not necessary. It isn't like NOT having 5 stacks of NV will prevent legendary drops. It is just that you get higher chances with the MF that NV provides.

At capped MF, I usually get 1-2 yellows and the occasion legendary BEFORE 5 NV stacks. You can farm Diablo all you want. He drops like any elite, no more no less, just based on your MF.

NV is earned bonus. Not a right.
Reply Quote
How about remove NV on elite kills and reward them on major quests completion, which eventually buffs the drop rate(like on first kill) of bosses per act.

But then again boss fights are not as epic as Diablo2, so the idea of boss killing probably doesn't appeal to people. :/
Reply Quote
Have you all forgetting what your drops looked like before you had access to NV?
Even w/o everything Lylirra said it is a good system in that it rewards us for doing something most of us would do anyway.
Put another way it is a good bonus.
Edited by ThePsyko#1814 on 12/18/2012 7:51 PM PST
Reply Quote
. I want to play where I want for how long I want.


You can. Just pretend they already got rid of NV and go play.
Reply Quote
I had a problem with this when I was not geared well. Now in 15 minute bursts I don't even feel bad if I get off after that. Usually that's enough time for a potential key and some monster hunting.
Edited by LaZ#1907 on 12/18/2012 7:58 PM PST
Reply Quote
12/18/2012 05:56 PMPosted by Lylirra
Certainly, one of our goals is to allow people to play game sessions that are about 5 to 10 minutes in length and still be rewarded well, but we need to make sure that in the process we don't make rapidly flipping games the go-to method. It's all about striking the right balance for a wide variety of players


This is dangerous thinking. Allow me to explain why i think that.

I understand you do not want short games to be the ideal way to farm, and that is understandable. However, you censor the free choice by adding a barrier, basically a rule(law), to the game, so that it is less attractive to farm. This is in reality what it is. It is a law players are forced to abide, yet is not held up to moral.

You have the power to mold the world itself, mold its very shape so that it functions as you choose. But instead you are satisfied to create a flawed world which has some weaknesses, and you patch them by laws of censorship to prevent players from using the world you created in ways you do not agree to. This is the ballpark of imagination, shape the world to fit with your visions and ideas!

It is the world itself you must adress, because censorship only ever removes possibilities. It never creates oppertunity, it removes oppertunity. It is very important to understand this principle.

The more patchup and weird residual systems are left, the more rigid the system becomes. The patch up rules of any system, prevents the system from adjusting balance by itself. It will even make it much more tricky to balance everything in the game, as you will have to adjust extra factors when doing so.

-----------------
On a side note, it would seem that the players of Diablo 2 did not agree that quick runs were not fun, considering they been doing it for the past 10 years or more. A shame that you should decide to limit the ways of the past.

Let me point out, now you have bosses which pose no challenge, yet are major bosses so have lots of HP, and drop so little loot they are not worth the effort. How can one be proud of this?

----------------------
Right now i can think of 3 patchup/residual systems which i think were all a mistake, the shortcut to doing the real improvement.

1. Inferno level. Hell was fine, although since monster power systems you have made it attractive to farm all inferno which it was not before, and that is a really good thing.

2. Paragon levels. This is just bad, you thought this was wow and made a lvl cap of 60. We wanted the Diablo experience, you patched with paragon..

3. Nephalem valor. The ultimate symbol of giving up to create the perfect world, but instead choosing laws and censorship as the way to adjust peoples behavior.

A good example of two conflicting systems within the system are Nephalem Valor and Paragon levels. One would assume you had chosen the values for nephalem valor, which were in the retail game, because you had an idea or an understanding.

Then you introduced paragon levels which effectively reduced the impact of the Nephalem Valor system, but with no change in those values. Makes you wonder.

These are the kinds of extra adjustments that will come if you dont have a simple world without a million patch up rules to make the game rigid. And you will forget the reasons systems were made and forget to adjust them accordingly, it is only human. That is why you must avoid it at all cost, especially this early in the game!

---------
EDIT: to comments

This is about ideology, it will manifest when you deal in mediocrity.
Edited by Nocturnal#2168 on 12/18/2012 8:26 PM PST
Reply Quote
As we already said, anyone can still just keep farming Diablo or Gnom without NV and still get legendaries. NV only (read again, only) gives you 2 more drops which is at least a rare.

In other words, if you don't like NV and have a good amount of MF, you can just farm the boss 3 or 4 times, in the same time it will take to acquire 5 NV and will most probably have the same chances to get the same number of rares and legendaries.
Edited by Wtflag#1258 on 12/18/2012 8:19 PM PST
Reply Quote


I like nv. but sometimes I feel the "guarenteed rare" is overriding drops that could potentially be legendaries. (as I most often find legendaries when I'm at 3-4 stacks). and I find tons of rares anyway (99.9% are vendor trash anyway)

I realize for lower paragon/mf players that the garenteed rare is a blessing as not much will drop with 0 mf anyway. but for players at the 200+ mf mark we find plenty of rares anyway

as I don't know the inner workings of the game its all just my theory. perhaps you could elaborate on if the gaurenteed rare can or cannot override the possibility of a legendary?


The "guaranteed rare" actually increases your chance to find a legendary. Calling it a guaranteed rare is kind of misleading as it can be a rare or higher.

See this:

http://www.diablofans.com/topic/57939-magic-find-and-its-efficiency-a-statistical-insight

It has a lot of information about item drops.


^^This.

Basically the guaranteed rare from packs is another chance.

It being a rare is pretty meaningless, because it is basically just another item added to the drop. On items, the game rolls first for legendary/set, then for 6 prop, then 5 prop, then 4 prop, etc.

The guaranteed rare does the same rolls but at the 4 prop rare stage it has a 100% chance, if it gets that far.

As you will likely know, a 4 prop rare has very little chance of being good, well all rares have very little chance of being good, but a 4 prop one has a lot less chance of being good.

Your NV stacks, in respect of the extra rare, really only mean that instead of the elite pack for example dropping 3 to 4 items on the death of the yellow or final blue mob, it will drop 4 or 5.

Any of the 3, 4 or 5 drops can roll legendary, any can roll 6 prop rare, just the extra one will never be below 4 prop rare (but will nearly always suck if it is only a 4 prop rare).
Edited by Anuhart#2131 on 12/18/2012 8:22 PM PST
Reply Quote
This is not about what is possible and not possible, this is about ideology.

It will manifest when you deal in mediocrity.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]