Diablo® III

Disappointed with Nephalem Valor


As far as OP s concerned; He did raise a good point. Why are people forced to play for more than a couple of minutes? You're talking as if that would discourage team play. Are you saying D3 is a highly social game currently? The real social aspect of D3 is missing: PvP
People doing <1 min farming is not going to make the game less social.


On which planet do you live ??? The SC one ? Of course there is not much team play there, because it si not necessary, its mostly a moneymaking machine. SC is a broken economy with bored out players, just watch their expression on their life streams... but we knew that already 18 months ago, when the a ladder system was canceled.

In Hc there is a lot of team-play and we barely play with dry eyes due to too much fun and laughs. (again not saying D3 is a good game, just that we have fun). We are almost always 3-8 players and the feature we are missing most is a channel and and 8ppl game.

An yet there are some who want to optimize and maximize their efforts and play alone because of that or smaller parties, if we would have 1 min games we would see much more of them, just on for a quick run or one more ... and one more... and then play alone for hours for one more... of course social play would suffer. At least on the HC planet - the planet for real playerz with skillz (!!! ATTENTION: SARCASM !!!).
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No body forced you to play it in certain ways. If you don't like Naphalem Valor, then just don't use it. Stack on magic find to get your rare/legendary items. The valor is just a way to guarrantee rare items if you have 5 stacks.

I am not sure what people are expecting from a game nowadays any more. If you just want to play 5-10 minutes, then your reward will not be as great as those who plays 5-10 hours. If you only studied for 5-10 minutes, then don't expect to get a better grade (unleses of coz you are a genius).
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How does Nephalem Valor, Paragon Level, and Monster Power work on Magic Find?Each stack of Nephalem Valor gives 15% MF up to 5 stacks (75MF). This can exceed the 300MF cap. 25% bonus MF is granted per Monster Power level up to a 250% bonus at MP10. This can exceed the 300MF cap, as well. 3% permanent MF is granted per Paragon Level up to a 300%MF. This is subject to the 300MF cap.

They need to remove the 300% mf cap end game; you should not be punished for getting to paragon level 100 by already maxing out your magic find. They should atleast make the cap 700 or 1000 mf. With the introduction of paragon's they should have removed nv and just made all bosses have the same bonus as nv did. That way their is a point to killing a Boss!


You stop playing at Paragon 100 and start working. DON'T GO THERE ! Just because you can, doesn't mean you have to.

And max mf is capped at 475% (at least for me in normal, nm and hell, havent checked Inf yet, but i bet its the same).
Edited by Ferisam#2351 on 12/19/2012 7:44 AM PST
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11/12/2012 06:08 AMPosted by Morningrise
I always liked to turn to Diablo when I had 20 minutes before I had to leave the house for work or class, I could get in a couple Mephisto runs and maybe get some quick loot to be excited for when I got home.

Omg this is so true. As a result of NV I just quit playing. I dont like to sit down for hours and play. I enjoy quick play sessions. Get up and do something. Sit back down and play for 15-20 minutes. Do something else around the house.
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First, it helps make sure that extremely short play sessions (i.e. < 1 minute) are not the optimal way to play. Second, there's a lot of value in being able to swap your skills at will and tailor your builds to the environment around you, but there's also gameplay to finding a build that really works for you in a variety of situations -- we like that NV helps balance these two concepts

How about adding more build specfic gear? Doesnt the game creation limit you added combat short play sessions?
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Overall, we think Nephalem Valor does a great job at addressing two core needs. First, it helps make sure that extremely short play sessions (i.e. < 1 minute) are not the optimal way to play. Second, there's a lot of value in being able to swap your skills at will and tailor your builds to the environment around you, but there's also gameplay to finding a build that really works for you in a variety of situations -- we like that NV helps balance these two concepts, and allows players to feel like there is some commitment to a skill build without also feeling like they’re locked into that build forever. So, while there are definitely some issues with the current design, we currently think that the pros outweigh the cons of how the game would probably feel if the system were not in place.

That said, you're right -- the system isn't perfect, and we're definitely looking at ways we can do better. Certainly, one of our goals is to allow people to play game sessions that are about 5 to 10 minutes in length and still be rewarded well, but we need to make sure that in the process we don't make rapidly flipping games the go-to method. It's all about striking the right balance for a wide variety of players, and we'll definitely be keeping your feedback in mind (as well as other threads on the topic) as we explore options for how to improve NV.

Great thread!


Lylirra, I think you do a great job in terms of interaction and keeping a good relation with the community. But there's one thing I like less, blue posts most of the time, if not always mention in their response with "we think this...", "we think that...". It's annoying for me to just read what you guys think should be(I'm not addressing you directly). Can you please sometimes provide an answer like "The community think that...so we..." ? At least, mentionning what the community think makes us feel that you guys care.
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I don't like them either, any change that wouldn't make us lose the bonuses would be great.
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Don't really get the whining about the buff in general.

Some exceptions should be made though, for example key runs, they are the only real runs, nobody tries to get buffs for a boss-only-run. and bosses do not make sense at all without them. its not d2 (can't believe i ever said that in that context).

Getting the buff for the key bosses is a good idea, because, if you can get the stacks you can do the bosses in that mp level - nice party/gear check.

If you don't play party or hc, whats the point in mf-ing and paragon leveling anyway ????? Then just don't bother with the game, finish dia inferno and quit.
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First, it helps make sure that extremely short play sessions (i.e. < 1 minute) are not the optimal way to play.


Frankly speaking, it never was the MOST optimal play in D2.
Secondly, why can't NV remain when we finish one act if your aim is to keep players play longer in a single game?
Moreover, what's wrong with those generic way points we have now? Why can't we just use them to go between acts and different zones? We have to find the way points every single game in order to use them... That is kinda lame.
Lastly, in many ways, the game doesn't function like Diablo. Please go play Diablo 2 for another 10 years and hope you understand why Diablo 2 was so addictive.

*Forgot to mention, those less than one minute games are what made Diablo 2 so addictive if you haven't thought about it.
Edited by MisterAjikko#1937 on 12/19/2012 11:51 AM PST
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Overall, we think Nephalem Valor does a great job at addressing two core needs. First, it helps make sure that extremely short play sessions (i.e. < 1 minute) are not the optimal way to play. Second, there's a lot of value in being able to swap your skills at will and tailor your builds to the environment around you, but there's also gameplay to finding a build that really works for you in a variety of situations -- we like that NV helps balance these two concepts, and allows players to feel like there is some commitment to a skill build without also feeling like they’re locked into that build forever. So, while there are definitely some issues with the current design, we currently think that the pros outweigh the cons of how the game would probably feel if the system were not in place.

That said, you're right -- the system isn't perfect, and we're definitely looking at ways we can do better. Certainly, one of our goals is to allow people to play game sessions that are about 5 to 10 minutes in length and still be rewarded well, but we need to make sure that in the process we don't make rapidly flipping games the go-to method. It's all about striking the right balance for a wide variety of players, and we'll definitely be keeping your feedback in mind (as well as other threads on the topic) as we explore options for how to improve NV.

Great thread!


TL/DR = Instead of giving you real farming options we keep trying to line everyone into an almost identical grey farming area without a real identity other than the grind.
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12/18/2012 05:56 PMPosted by Lylirra
we like that NV helps balance these two concepts, and allows players to feel like there is some commitment to a skill build without also feeling like they’re locked into that build forever


From a players perspective I feel there is still no commitment to a build. Just a commitment for a farming session.
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says the guy with a world of warcraft portrait.
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12/18/2012 05:56 PMPosted by Lylirra
Certainly, one of our goals is to allow people to play game sessions that are about 5 to 10 minutes in length and still be rewarded well, but we need to make sure that in the process we don't make rapidly flipping games the go-to method.


And what's wrong with creating games that are 1 minute in length to hunt a key or farm a boss, it worked fine in Diablo 2 no one complained. Level 99 would be impossible in d2 without the baalrun1 go ballrun2 go baalrun3 go (and bots to make them to join :) )...... countess, nialathak, sumoner quit countess, nialathak, sumoner. Drop rates were on the money in D2 1 in 14 games get keys open portals and 100% organ drop for your effort. Torch 1 in 7 it'd be the one you want but no biggie to farm all over again to obtain another. Diablo 3 drop rates are horrific waste of time getting nv no keys, can't swap acts, new game waste time getting nv no keys, oh thank god finaly have enough to make 3 portals waste time getting nv no organs....... lame lame lame. I could careless about the infernal machine, I was exicited about it upon reading but the drop rates are a joke, new games for each key run stupid. Please fix these aspects and don't tell us how to play the game it's a game and everyone is intitled to find enjoyment his or her own way not "we feel that 1 min games are no fun so we are going to make that not worth while" "we feel that X skill is overused so let's nerf that and buff the potion finding skill" For those who have D2 still installed please go do a chaos/baal run on hell and I bet after downing diablo and baal you will have at least 1 set and 1 unique drop (they might be crap but green, gold!!!!) then come play D3 kill Azmodan and Diablo on inferno and I bet trash drops (Since launch a boss has never dropped a legendary or set piece for me)
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make a new shrine that allow you to change skill for a certain time (like 2 minute) without losing stacks
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It should be possible to continue a game (from the last checkpoint, as usual) with the number of NV you had when you left it. Problem solved.
If you fear people abuse this for farming, just don't respawn elites/chests you already found.
Example: a level spawns 6 elites. You killed 4, leave the game. When you restart, level will only spawn 2 elites.
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agree, nv is just a waste of time
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I like NV, and enjoy farming more in this game than in D2. Is it as rewarding? No, but fighting randomish mobs with randomish affixes is much more fun than tele to meph, cast ~5 fireballs and collect loot, rinse and repeat.

NV isnt even that time consming, if you have 10 mins go to core of arreat get 2 stacked and go to keeps 3 get your additional 5 then kill as much stuff as possible in your remaining minutes. Getting 5 stacked should not take you 20mins and if it does lower your mp lvl significantly. Mp0-3 maybe painfully easy but no easier than tele to meph(apart from those pesky fetishes), fireball and leave.

Especially in short runs, ~15mins, if you are solely mfing and not worried about paragon all acts are reasonably viable. A1 go to Festering Woods and Leorics Manor/Cemetary and 5 stacks are super easy to get. A2 go to Black Canyon Mines, Alcarnus/Sewers of Cald, and Daghlur and you are good to go.
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I think NV is awesome, and a reward for those playing the game. What I would say, and I hope Blizz is still reading this thread: INCREASE MOB DENSITY. Increase the number of mobs, both elite and regular. Maybe even add a "flood" random event that can occur in any part of the game in Hell and Inferno difficulties.

I would love to see this as an option! With few exceptions my legendaries have dropped from trash mobs (and have been trash, but that's another issue). I figure the more/faster I can kill things, the better. Also, there's a sense of catharsis and fun to decimating a large mob. Really hope Blizz can accommodate this somehow.
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ive found plenty of legendaries without 5 stacks. It happens. It only bumps up your MF and gives you a guarenteed rare when you kill an elite/elite pack when you have 5 stacks.

You still have the chance to get rares and legendaries off of any monster without 5 stacks. just significantly less chance.
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