Diablo® III

Disappointed with Nephalem Valor

12/19/2012 04:32 PMPosted by Lylirra
There are no current plans to remove NV, but we do feel like we there are ways that we could continue improve the system to allow for a broader variety of play styles (i.e. shorter play sessions, as mentioned).


Wooo blue reply.

That's good news, I was just laughing at the situation you guys are always put in where a bunch of people crying about something and then getting mad because the results provide consequences which are easily seen (maybe not by them). People wanted increased leg drops, but now theyre crying about the consequence (more bad legendaries and their gear losing value)
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acually there not qqin about the drops, well the drop rate is fine but the good legs dont drops to much at all lol, mempo, echoing fury, ik, tal, all the legs everyone uses doesn't drop, everytime i get a leg its the same old crap 99% of the time thats not RNG rofl
and the 99.9% rolls on legs and rares are completely bogus junk, many would agree^
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acually there not qqin about the drops, well the drop rate is fine but the good legs dont drops to much at all lol, mempo, echoing fury, ik, tal, all the legs everyone uses doesn't drop, everytime i get a leg its the same old crap 99% of the time thats not RNG rofl
and the 99.9% rolls on legs and rares are completely bogus junk, many would agree^


Uhh yea actually thats the whole point. Before 1.05 a good mempo didnt have to have crit. After 1.05 any mempo without crit is garbage. Thats because a lot more of the mid range mempos drop, so more people have them. And if more people have them, less people need them. Therefore their value goes down. This is why rares also became so devalued. They didn't get worse, its just theres a ton more now. The same thing will happen if you bump up the amount of "good" drops. The goal post will just be moved higher, these "better" drops that you are now getting will become devalued, and the truly godly items will become even more expensive. This is what you, and other short sighted people can't seem to grasp, and it's frustrating as hell when there's sooo many of you that Blizz actually implements your opinions.
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12/18/2012 05:56 PMPosted by Lylirra
but there's also gameplay to finding a build that really works for you in a variety of situations

Then stop pigeonholing us into one spec.

That said, you're right -- the system isn't perfect, and we're definitely looking at ways we can do better. Certainly, one of our goals is to allow people to play game sessions that are about 5 to 10 minutes in length and still be rewarded well,


Never going to happen. I can go WEEKS of playing without seeing a single piece of gear I don't hand to a vendor and say "here, YOU take this piece of !@#$". 5-10 minutes sessions are IMPOSSIBLE without some sort of gear mass overhaul. This isn't "enter game, go kill Pinder, kill Andariel, kill Meph, kill whoever else". This game doesn't even LET you do that, because you can't switch acts in the same game (unless you "clear" the act, in which case you lose your Nephalem Valor stacks anyway). This game forces long sessions for VERY LITTLE gain, and does not reward people for playing.
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12/18/2012 05:56 PMPosted by Lylirra
Certainly, one of our goals is to allow people to play game sessions that are about 5 to 10 minutes in length and still be rewarded well, but we need to make sure that in the process we don't make rapidly flipping games the go-to method. It's all about striking the right balance for a wide variety of players, and we'll definitely be keeping your feedback in mind (as well as other threads on the topic) as we explore options for how to improve NV.


One thing you are currently missing is rewarding players for playing an entire act from the beginning. To do that, you could allow nephalim valor to stack to ...say... 100 (with diminishing returns of course). There could even be certain rare new legendaries which only drop at 100 stacks (such as a hell-fire legendary 5-piece set). Or better yet, make these nephalim different from the valor (call them something different) but they only activate if you start at quest 1 of the act and then when you kill the act boss, you have a chance for the legendary set-drop...

But then you could also add more short term farming options (to balance out the longer runs). These would only require a 5 stack and would be similar to farming for keys to open a portal to the ubers (maybe new ubers with new items to craft).
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my suggested changes to nv.

nv stacks to 30

killing a pack will give you 2-6 stacks.

the probability of more stacks gained depends on mp lvl (eg: at mp10, every pack will give you 6 stacks)

each stack gives you 5% mf/gf/xp subjected to the cap of 75% for mf/gf, (you are allowed to stack till 30, so that it forms a death buffer)

every elite pack gives you a guaranteed rare. (even at 1 stack) (who cares. since 99.99% of all rares now are vendor trash,. giving everyone 4 more per run is hardly game breaking at this point)

dying causes you to lose 1 stack,changing skills causes you to lose 1 stack (eg: before you kill the final bosses and you have sufficient buffer, then by all means change skills for single target bossing)

keywardens no longer require 5 stack. but all key wardens are guarded by 5 elite packs and cannot be killed until those elites die. furthermore, there is a slight bonus to keys dropping above the standard mp lvl rate based on number of stacks you have. eg: 30% bonus for mp7 pretty much gives you 100% key drop rate. for those situations where you have > 100% chance, there is a probability of dropping 2 keys. (110% chance = 100% + 10% chance of additional key)

ubers no longer require 5 stack.
Edited by chrisloup#6305 on 12/21/2012 4:01 PM PST
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acually there not qqin about the drops, well the drop rate is fine but the good legs dont drops to much at all lol, mempo, echoing fury, ik, tal, all the legs everyone uses doesn't drop, everytime i get a leg its the same old crap 99% of the time thats not RNG rofl
and the 99.9% rolls on legs and rares are completely bogus junk, many would agree^


Uhh yea actually thats the whole point. Before 1.05 a good mempo didnt have to have crit. After 1.05 any mempo without crit is garbage. Thats because a lot more of the mid range mempos drop, so more people have them. And if more people have them, less people need them. Therefore their value goes down. This is why rares also became so devalued. They didn't get worse, its just theres a ton more now. The same thing will happen if you bump up the amount of "good" drops. The goal post will just be moved higher, these "better" drops that you are now getting will become devalued, and the truly godly items will become even more expensive. This is what you, and other short sighted people can't seem to grasp, and it's frustrating as hell when there's sooo many of you that Blizz actually implements your opinions.


you say thats why mid range mempos drop?? rofl the rolls are RNG i thought..... and i dont care what there worth i hate the ah, but unfortinutly thats the only way to get the gear hahaha, its helarius diablo is a loot game and d3 isnt because of the ah. you can sit there n talk w/e but the majority know the truth. im not rly talking about the rolls rly because i know you got to get lucky but luck dont exist in d3 for me and many others but w/e, the legs that all classes use are what im talking about, for me echo, ik, lacuni, mempo, this !@#$ dont drop, its always the crap nobody uses rofl, i got my first ik item gloves.. like 2 weeks ago and echo fury yesterday, both rolled crap, but rly it took this many hours n months to get 2 single items i needed? how is that RNG haha, AH/RMAH needs to go, its been like this since release, all its doing is bringing botters in to try n make some free money, over half of the diablo community got banned now they will be back soon if not already rofl.
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12/19/2012 06:40 PMPosted by Epic
you say thats why mid range mempos drop?? rofl the rolls are RNG i thought


Based on your grammar you're either very young or dumb or both. Please learn to type properly so people can actually understand you. Yes the PRICE of mid range mempos dropped because more of them were dropping. The demand for them went quicker than the demand for higher tier mempos because they are not as common, and much better.

12/19/2012 06:40 PMPosted by Epic
and i dont care what there worth i hate the ah, but unfortinutly thats the only way to get the gear hahaha, its helarius diablo is a loot game and d3 isnt because of the ah.


This is the !@#$ that pisses me off. Yes diablo is a loot game. You want to know what the ah is? Its a vehicle to facilitate trade that uses a common currency. Instead of finding someone that has a specific item you want, and you having to have a specific item, it uses a common currency make trading easier and faster. That's it. Diablo moved to a common currency because it was much easier to trade with. The ah doesn't magically ruin trading or the loot hunt, what ruins it is your envy now that you can see what the best items go for.

12/19/2012 06:40 PMPosted by Epic
because i know you got to get lucky but luck dont exist in d3 for me and many others but w/e, the legs that all classes use are what im talking about, for me echo, ik, lacuni, mempo, this !@#$ dont drop, its always the crap nobody uses rofl, i got my first ik item gloves.. like 2 weeks ago and echo fury yesterday, both rolled crap, but rly it took this many hours n months to get 2 single items i needed? how is that RNG haha,


Want to know how that's RNG? Because you couldnt predict when it could happen. And judging by the amount of EFs and IKs on the AH it happens to other people. Stop thinking that you should be guarenteed anything for playing x amount of hours.

12/19/2012 06:40 PMPosted by Epic
AH/RMAH needs to go, its been like this since release, all its doing is bringing botters in to try n make some free money, over half of the diablo community got banned now they will be back soon if not already rofl.


Stop blaming the AH for your badluck. Want to know why d2jsp was so popular? Because it constitued an AH like trading format with a common currency. It's what people naturally move to because it's easier and faster.

But looking back on your apparent IQ level, Im going to go ahead and say all of the above is just going to fly right over your head. You dont care about any of the above stuff, and just want your godly items. And your mad that other people can have them but not you. Take your pettiness elsewhere and grow up.
Edited by Martimus#1266 on 12/19/2012 7:17 PM PST
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Pre launch the preview videos showed changing skills with the mouse wheel. Where is that now? Of course with NV you can't change skills or you loose your stacks. I am just glade you don't loose them for changing gear. I swap belts for ubers.
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NV sucks because u cant move through acts without loosing it. Simple as fck
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Overall, we think Nephalem Valor does a great job at addressing two core needs. First, it helps make sure that extremely short play sessions (i.e. < 1 minute) are not the optimal way to play. Second, there's a lot of value in being able to swap your skills at will and tailor your builds to the environment around you, but there's also gameplay to finding a build that really works for you in a variety of situations -- we like that NV helps balance these two concepts, and allows players to feel like there is some commitment to a skill build without also feeling like they’re locked into that build forever. So, while there are definitely some issues with the current design, we currently think that the pros outweigh the cons of how the game would probably feel if the system were not in place.

That said, you're right -- the system isn't perfect, and we're definitely looking at ways we can do better. Certainly, one of our goals is to allow people to play game sessions that are about 5 to 10 minutes in length and still be rewarded well, but we need to make sure that in the process we don't make rapidly flipping games the go-to method. It's all about striking the right balance for a wide variety of players, and we'll definitely be keeping your feedback in mind (as well as other threads on the topic) as we explore options for how to improve NV.

Great thread!


I'm confused by the part where you guys try to tell someone that bought a game for their own personal play how they should farm in it. Oh wait, this is Blizzard.
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Overall, we think Nephalem Valor does a great job at addressing two core needs. First, it helps make sure that extremely short play sessions (i.e. < 1 minute) are not the optimal way to play. Second, there's a lot of value in being able to swap your skills at will and tailor your builds to the environment around you, but there's also gameplay to finding a build that really works for you in a variety of situations -- we like that NV helps balance these two concepts, and allows players to feel like there is some commitment to a skill build without also feeling like they’re locked into that build forever. So, while there are definitely some issues with the current design, we currently think that the pros outweigh the cons of how the game would probably feel if the system were not in place.

That said, you're right -- the system isn't perfect, and we're definitely looking at ways we can do better. Certainly, one of our goals is to allow people to play game sessions that are about 5 to 10 minutes in length and still be rewarded well, but we need to make sure that in the process we don't make rapidly flipping games the go-to method. It's all about striking the right balance for a wide variety of players, and we'll definitely be keeping your feedback in mind (as well as other threads on the topic) as we explore options for how to improve NV.

Great thread!


Funny, your core need of making short game sessions ineffective. Is that another one of JWs ideas of what he perceives the community thinks isnt fun? Because once again, that is wrong. I enjoy short play sessions and know many players who did so in Diablo 2. But due to efficiency I am forced to play longer sessions and full runs, despite those being boring in my eyes. Stop telling us whats fun.


Stop telling us what is fun
Edited by Doracahl#1483 on 12/20/2012 12:27 AM PST
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i really miss the old days

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvkaF8JEPC8
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I absolutely detest the NV system and wish it removed henceforth...we don't even need now we can farm high MP!
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I'm a rather casual gamer and I must say I like the NV system.

About the "Short but still rewarding" game sequences, my opinion is that the people it concerns are casual gamers like me, who sometimes only have time for a, say, 20-30 minutes session, thus not being able to reach enough NV stacks for it to be interesting.

However those same people are also the ones who don't play every day I think.

So how about a system like in Wow (I'm not a wow fan, don't start me on "get lost wow player"), where starting a game after a long-ish offline period grants you a bonus (could be only MF/GF bonus, XP is not necessary). This bonus would fade away either with time or as you stack NV bonuses.

How about that?
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