Diablo® III

Black Damage?

Saw some people talking about this in trade chat.

If a weapon doesnt have any elemntal damage on it, that makes it black damage, correct?

Now, if it has fire damage, does that proc Conflagartion? Same for Arcane and Temporal Flux and Cold for Cold Blooded?

What spells work in cohesion with things like that? Things like magic missile or just spells that deal physical?

Also, how would something like Frostburns work with a weapon that does cold damage?
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Now, if it has fire damage, does that proc Conflagartion? Same for Arcane and Temporal Flux and Cold for Cold Blooded?


No, no, and no. Skills convert the elemental damage into the damage type of the spell.
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Oh, I saw a Wizard in here with really good gear with Conflagaration and a Chantodo's with fire damage.

No other skills did fire damage, so I figured it had something to do with his weapon.
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Oh, I saw a Wizard in here with really good gear with Conflagaration and a Chantodo's with fire damage.

No other skills did fire damage, so I figured it had something to do with his weapon.


That probably would be because he wears Fire Walkers. The molten deals fire damage. (e.g. me)
Edited by Eddavatar#1487 on 10/29/2012 1:17 PM PDT
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Ahh, that makes sense.
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So why do people bother posting that their weapon deals black damage. Does it matter?

I guess for Barbs and stuff maybe? Wizards and WD not at all?
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So why do people bother posting that their weapon deals black damage. Does it matter?

I guess for Barbs and stuff maybe? Wizards and WD not at all?


when they have gear that adds X% elemental damage, like a triumvirate.

Therefore making the entire min-max damage range of the weapon 'black' aka non-elemental. All +x% elemental damage effects on gear such as triumverate and stormcrow are applied only to non-elemental portions of your characters min/max damage.
Edited by txag2k#1789 on 10/29/2012 1:21 PM PDT
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So why do people bother posting that their weapon deals black damage. Does it matter?

I guess for Barbs and stuff maybe? Wizards and WD not at all?


It's the difference between 18% extra damage or not (aka Triumvirate).
Edited by Eddavatar#1487 on 10/29/2012 1:21 PM PDT
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Ok, so this is where I am confused.

So if you have Triumvirate that has for example 6% additional arcane damage, and an SoJ that does the same thing, and your weapon has +300-500 arcane damage, you are doing...

336-560 arcande damage instead?
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no, lets say you had a fictional easy math weapon

It does 100-1000 damage (black)
Add a 6% soj
now it does 106-1060 damage

If you had a weapon that did 50-500 damage
plus 50-500 fire damage
you do 100-1000 damage
BUT add a 6% SOJ and the bonus only applies to non-fire damage
So you will get
53-530 damage plus 50-500 fire damage

for a total of
103-1030 damage
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i have around 32% at the moment i think

18% from triumvirate. 6% from tal rasha's helm. another 7% poison from zun trail.

I am hoping to add another 8% from Storm Crow in the near future.
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no, lets say you had a fictional easy math weapon

It does 100-1000 damage (black)
Add a 6% soj
now it does 106-1060 damage

If you had a weapon that did 50-500 damage
plus 50-500 fire damage
you do 100-1000 damage
BUT add a 6% SOJ and the bonus only applies to non-fire damage
So you will get
53-530 damage plus 50-500 fire damage

for a total of
103-1030 damage


This 6% SoJ is for physical damage? I dont get it!!!!
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Im reading SoJ and it says "adds 6% to X damage"

This would make me think it would only add 6% to that damage type, not "Black Damage"
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Can anyone please explain to me how things like SoJ, Triumvirate and Frostburns would add to your weapon damage.

As its written that seems completely off.
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I think some of the explanations here are pretty good, but I'll try from a different angle.

Every weapon comes with a +X type of damage. This can be fire, lightning, arcane, poison, physical. "Black Weapons" are really just weapons that have +Physical damage.

If an item has an affix that reads, "Adds Y% to X damage", it only adds the Y% if the weapon has the same X damage OR if it has physical damage.

I believe the math is like this:

Scenario 1:
You have a wand that does 200 to 300 Lightning damage.
You have an item that "Adds 5% to Lightning damage"
The wands Lightning damage is now 210 to 315.

Scenario 2:
You have a wand that does 200 to 300 Lightning damage.
You have a tritium that adds 5/5/5 elemental.
Only the 5% to lightning applies so the wands lightning damage now does 210 to 315.

Scenario 3:
You have a wand that does 200 to 300 Physical damage
You have a trium that adds 5/5/5 elemental
Each elemental damage is added for a total of 15% additional Physical damage, 231.5 to 345.

Again, this is just my elementary understanding as to why "Black" weapons benefit more from multiple elemental damage buffs.
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I think some of the explanations here are pretty good, but I'll try from a different angle.

Every weapon comes with a +X type of damage. This can be fire, lightning, arcane, poison, physical. "Black Weapons" are really just weapons that have +Physical damage.

If an item has an affix that reads, "Adds Y% to X damage", it only adds the Y% if the weapon has the same X damage OR if it has physical damage.

I believe the math is like this:

Scenario 1:
You have a wand that does 200 to 300 Lightning damage.
You have an item that "Adds 5% to Lightning damage"
The wands Lightning damage is now 210 to 315.

Scenario 2:
You have a wand that does 200 to 300 Lightning damage.
You have a tritium that adds 5/5/5 elemental.
Only the 5% to lightning applies so the wands lightning damage now does 210 to 315.

Scenario 3:
You have a wand that does 200 to 300 Physical damage
You have a trium that adds 5/5/5 elemental
Each elemental damage is added for a total of 15% additional Physical damage, 231.5 to 345.

Again, this is just my elementary understanding as to why "Black" weapons benefit more from multiple elemental damage buffs.


The first 2 scenario's as someone already stated and its been stated so many times now don't happen

Adds + x% to elemental damage IS WORDED wrong. It only works with physical damage modifiers from weapons, Amulet's, Ring's, and Off-hand mojo's//source's Period

you have 3 weapons and 1 triumvirate (5% , 5%, 5%), a nice storm crow (8%)(lighting), and a nice Zunimassa's trail (8%)(poison) for a total of 31% elemental damage

weapon 1 does 500~1000 damage all black with no elemental tie in
In this scenario All sources of + x% elemental damage are added together and your average damage is now between 655 ~1310 (31% of 500~1000 total physical damage)

Weapon 2 does 500~1000 damage of which 250~500 damage is poison based.
In this scenario All sources of +x% elemental damage are added together and your average damage is now between 327.5~655 +x% elemental damage ONLY works with physical originating damage

Weapon 3 does 500~1000 damage of which 250~500 is lighting based. In this scenario all sources of +x% elemental damage are added together and your average damage is now between 327.5~655. Because +x% elemental damage ONLY works with physical originating damage.

Weapon 4 as an example does 500~1000 damage of which 250~500 damage is fire
weapon 4 has the special affix property of adds +x% to fire elemental skills. at 25% we are also still using the same elemental adders as well

For all fire based spells (skills that change the damage type to fire based)
Its damage is ((250~500) x (+0.25)) + ((250~500) x (1 +.08+.08+.15)) x 1.25 = (327.5 ~655) + (409.375~818.75)

I.e. Fire elemental damage on the weapon is still boosted by this special affix and ONLY when using a fire based skill... Otherwise the affix has no effect. which is (327.5~655)

The physical damage gets both benifits from Elemental damage % and elemental SKILL damage resulting in a higher raw damage and ONLY WHEN fire based skills are used. This amount is (409.375~818.75)

For all non fire based skills the weapon acts like examples of weapon 2 and weapon 3 for damage.

Weapon #4 damage Totales at 736.875~1473.75 total damage <--- and ONLY when using a fire based skill! Meaning You get huge damage pools when using fire based skills, which is why Weapons like Won Khim Lau, Maximus, and Burning axe of Sankis are sought after. This extra damage isn't included in the paper dps in-game calculator. If you still can figure this out May I direct your attention to another thread covering this same subject. I detail the differences here as well.

*edit* slight correcting in math results are still true

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7004690548#6
Edited by Harrowing#1449 on 10/29/2012 8:46 PM PDT
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Can anyone please explain to me how things like SoJ, Triumvirate and Frostburns would add to your weapon damage.

As its written that seems completely off.


Stone of Jordan is its own factor in the damage formula so it would act like 3 magic weapon buffs at 30%.

I.e. Weapon style #1 would be (655~1310) x (1+0.3) = 851.5~1703 total new damage if adding in a stone of jordan

Weapon style #2 and #3 would be (327.5~655) x (1+0.3) = 425.75~851.5 new damage from stone of jordan's effect

Weapon style #4 would be (736.875~1473.75) x (1 + 0.3) = 957.9375~1915.875 new raw damage from adding in a stone of jordan

So why do people bother posting that their weapon deals black damage. Does it matter?

I guess for Barbs and stuff maybe? Wizards and WD not at all?


Because each effect is its own factor each adder gets important when getting end game gear levels. Essentially each adder even though they are small greatly inflate your raw paper dps (excluding +elites damage% and +elemental skill damage %) getting enough modifiers together can nearly double your actual dps. So as a damage for gearing choice it becomes very clear at end-game gear levels that adding 18% elemental damage is more important than adding more primary stat and critical hit damage.<--- only when your gear is sufficient to warrant the adding in. I.e. high critical hit damage and chance + high intelligence levels. (+ 50% crit and +300% critical hit damage and +2200 intelligence).
Edited by Harrowing#1449 on 10/29/2012 8:58 PM PDT
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Black damage matters.

http://imgur.com/coc6Q

I picked up 2 daggers with nearly the same dps, one elemental one black. Just to show why it matters.

805.3 dps black dagger vs 805.5 dps elemental dagger
black dagger does 7862.9 DPS more than elemental (with all my +% bonuses)

Ignore what the text says, it is awkward and poorly worded.

Black damage and +% to <elemental> = Good. There is no mystery here, no hidden context, beyond BLACK GOOD, TRIUMVERATE GOOD... Don't over-think it... blizzard didn't.
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i honestly feel like this is a big mistake by blizzard and its going to get changed.

think about it, theres no reason that the triumvirate added elemental dmg should add dmg to physical weapons. it should only add damage to skills and atks that already use that element or to weapons with elemental dmg.

so for everyone spending mills on black dmg weps i really hope they dont change this for your sake, but dont be suprised.
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I'm a prime example of how elemental effects get amplified by a black weapon. The elemental effects really up the damage. Also, there is a blue post somewhere that states how it works and how this was the intended effect but worded oddly... Similar to the original wording of cold blooded...
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