Diablo® III

Black Damage?

Its overly confusing for sure. I have been frustrated by a lot of Blizzard games because of their poor wording or lack of information.

Why can we not have the coeffiecients listed for skills on the skill.

Why can we not see the damage and internal cooldowns for items like Wizardspike and Stormcrow procs.

Why did they hire workers from call centers in India to write skill tooltip text?
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here you go:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6413025317

The "+x% Elemental Damage" affix works by adding "x%" of your physical damage to your attack, in the form of the damage type listed.

So, really basic example:
Your physical damage is 100, and the item adds +3% Fire damage.
You gain 3 extra damage to your attacks as Fire damage.

Things this takes into account:
Rings, mojos, orbs (etc) that have an "X-Y" damage affix (e.g. "1-2 Damage")
The base damage range of your weapon, before any elemental damage is added from the affix
+Min or +Max affixes on weapons

(Note: It doesn't benefit from "+X-Y Elemental Damage" affixes on weapons.)

We realize the current wording for this affix can be confusing, and it's something we'd like to make more clear in the future. If you have any suggestions for how this affix could be better worded, we're definitely interested in your suggestions. Just keep in mind that space is limited in item tooltips, and that whatever we use would need to be translated into all of our supported languages


This is the blue verification quote
Edited by FrozenSolid#1462 on 11/1/2012 10:17 AM PDT
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Elemental damage is a train wreck in this game. It was handled much, much better in D2. Remember, when the type of elemental damage actually mattered?
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So...on the Tal Rasha's set where you get a bonus with 2 set pieces:

"Fire skills deal 3% more damage"

...is this added on to black damage, or does it boost fire damage like it says?
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11/01/2012 10:28 AMPosted by Requiescat
Elemental damage is a train wreck in this game. It was handled much, much better in D2. Remember, when the type of elemental damage actually mattered?


Yep, I always liked resistances and immunities. I think that's one of the main reasons multiplayer was killed in D3 - you can kill everything with one type of elemental damage now, whereas in D2 and D1 you would do MUCH better with a diverse group.
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So...on the Tal Rasha's set where you get a bonus with 2 set pieces:

"Fire skills deal 3% more damage"

...is this added on to black damage, or does it boost fire damage like it says?


This is easier. Fire Bolts do 155% instead of 152%, Meteor Shower does 107% instead of 104%. Right? Unless you change it to Comet...
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So...on the Tal Rasha's set where you get a bonus with 2 set pieces:

"Fire skills deal 3% more damage"

...is this added on to black damage, or does it boost fire damage like it says?

This is easier. Fire Bolts do 155% instead of 152%, Meteor Shower does 107% instead of 104%. Right? Unless you change it to Comet...


This is correct... The set bonus only adds to actual abilities. If you notice the wording is different and specifically indicates skills.
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Ok, so here is a break down of what I understand: Lets take Frostburns for an example:

https://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/frostburn-gauntlets

Lets say your frosties are 6% additional cold damage, 30% additional cold skills damage.

So the 6% is factored in towards your sheet DPS for all black damage sources.

30% is factored in towards cold skills (hydra, RoF, etc..)

I assume no one uses these because trifect gloves offer a much higher DPS boost, even on the best geared wizards?

They seem like they would be really, really good in combination with a tals ammy, trimvirate and zums boots.

Has anyone done the math on these? Is there a breakpoint at which its better to gear for elemental damage vs crit and crit damage?
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I just got a !@#$% when I realized you can link gear here in the forums and the tooltip pop comes up. Sexy.
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So going back to the Stone of Jordan example, if the ring Adds 6% to Holy Damage but rolled for Wizard, obviously we don't have Holy spells but it would still add 6% to the sheet DPS?
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11/01/2012 10:42 AMPosted by Savious
I just got a !@#$% when I realized you can link gear here in the forums and the tooltip pop comes up. Sexy.


Skills too!

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/wizard/passive/critical-mass
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OMG!
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11/01/2012 11:03 AMPosted by Requiescat
So going back to the Stone of Jordan example, if the ring Adds 6% to Holy Damage but rolled for Wizard, obviously we don't have Holy spells but it would still add 6% to the sheet DPS?


6% dps to your physical damage yes.

This is easier. Fire Bolts do 155% instead of 152%, Meteor Shower does 107% instead of 104%. Right? Unless you change it to Comet...


Actually it would be slightly different its currently its own factor so it would be in example forms. for tal's effect bonuses

For the largest example lets use molten impact at 390%
3.90 x (1.03) =401.7% damage instead of your assumed 393%

For the smallest lets take living lighting
0.37 x (1.03) = 38.11% extra damage.

In this instance the bonus doesn't do much, and any skill which has its damage under 100% total this effect wouldn't be better than the version you think is happening. Except for this fact, the effect is its own factor in your damage of your elemental skill related damage.

I.e. this is the example of what really happens in the damage equation when you find weapons with this stat, like Maximus.

Weapon 4 as an example does 500~1000 damage of which 250~500 damage is fire
weapon 4 has the special affix property of adds +x% to fire elemental skills. at 25% we are also still using the same elemental adders as well

For all fire based spells (skills that change the damage type to fire based)
Its damage is ((250~500) x (+0.25)) + ((250~500) x (1 +.08+.08+.15)) x 1.25 = (327.5 ~655) + (409.375~818.75)



I assume no one uses these because trifect gloves offer a much higher DPS boost, even on the best geared wizards?

They seem like they would be really, really good in combination with a tals ammy, trimvirate and zums boots.

Has anyone done the math on these? Is there a breakpoint at which its better to gear for elemental damage vs crit and crit damage?


There is eventually a dps difference for frost based skills when you go with tri-fecta's. It takes a while for tri-fecta's stat wise to catch up, but the real importance for tri-fecta's is is added effect of increased Apoc gains because of both IAS and crit chance, Getting an extra skill or two out in just the right time in Inferno is often the difference between life and death for most wizards, which is why almost no wizard who has decent gear with Apoc or crit chance relies on frost burns.

Frostburns still have a great use though they are awesome low gear for kiting wizards using mostly cold skills.

Now if only we could get magefists with a higher level,. in terms of damage for a fire wizard once they hit 6% IAS, 5% crit chance and 30% extra critical hit damage, they would be best BIS.<--- I.e. that is the breakpoint for magefists.
Edited by Harrowing#1449 on 11/1/2012 11:42 AM PDT
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elemental damage effect is funny for wizards compared to melee. Here's why and the things to consider...

A elemental effect (cold = slow effect ) is only applied if you use a melee ability like spectral blades.

The bonus damage is rolled into the weapon regardless of the element or lack there of...

Black damage is the absence of any elemental effect on the weapon. This becomes important because of certain other bonuses which only utilize black damage. Any piece of gear which has "adds %damage to X type" (IE adds 6% to holy damage) is based upon the black damage only. It takes a percentage of your base black damage (not dps...the actual damage)...and adds that as the damage type which as we discussed is just rolled into the dps.

It is worth noting that black weapon coupled with a triumvirate are very powerful...elemental effects such as poison do damage if you strike the target as melee.

additionally, your scoundrel coupled with a frost bow will trigger the cold blooded passive.
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Answer Re: Black Weapon and + Element%

My weapon is 2H Skorn (1096 - 1457), 100% Physical

My elements and Magic Weapon total +25% (SoJ +5%, Tal's Cold +6%, Zuni +8%, Frostburns +6%. Magic Weapon +15% (additional 406-587)

+min max from jewelry (68-60)

Overall my 2H Skorn is now (1,488 - 2,114) or ~1,801

Intelligence of 2340 converts to a multiplier of 24.4 for standard attack of 43,937
Critical attack multiply by + Critical Damage +1 (405% + 100%), or 221,882

Sum 19% of 221,882 and 81% of 43,937 = 79,923

+ Familiar and Glass Cannon (27%) or 21,578

Average Attack is 101,502

Attacks Per Second =1.09

"From Math" DPS = 110,637

My Screen DPS = 110,969 - Close enough for Government Work

Screen DPS doesn't figure in SoJ +7% Crit Chance using RoF. For Ray of Frost purposes, my DPS is 124,868.

Here's my question

Say you're using Ray of Frost / Snowblast (@ 280% Damage after 1.5 seconds)

Frostburns , Cold Blooded and Tal's Set bonus (4th - Cold Skills) Give you 53% more damage. Is this additive? i.e.: 333% of weapon (280% + 53%) or cumulative? i.e.: 428% (280% * 153%)

It makes a big difference, as I'm at an effective, single target DPS of 415,810 if additive (333%) and 534,435 if cumulative.

Also, with the bonus damage to elites, is that applied to the spell or after all of this math? For me the bonus v elites totals 24% between Tal's belt and SoJ. Additive would be 357% using Ray of Frost but "Total" cumulative is off the charts (280% * 153% * 124%) or 531%

Elite / Single Target DPS after 1.5 seconds using Snowblast for me would range between 445,700 - 662,900. HUGE Difference!

Throw in Storm Armor (pretty much a passive and random 100% DPS output) and crowd control with Blizzard and I am a weapon of mass destruction with this build, but the Single Target DPS is really important to me :)
Edited by Frigg#1154 on 11/1/2012 3:58 PM PDT
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Frigg Cold blooded works like a magic weapon buff on chilled or frozen enemies for you only. it would be in the portion.

Secondly this is actually easy to figure out because screen dps is now actually correct because all adders excluding + elemental skill damage are properly included. Passive buffs such as frostburns, tal's, cold blooded, and soj bonuses are not inlcuded.

(110k) *(1.33) * (1.2) * (1.21) = 214.3k dps before any skill bonuses 1.33 = frostburns +Tals, 1.2 = cold blooded, 1.21 = soj bonus

(214.3k) * (3.8) = 814,335 real skill dps after 1.5 seconds of buildup.
without tals your real skill dps would be 795967 after 1.5 seconds of buildup.

tals at 1.03 to cold skills paper dps isn't that much currently you could drop the belt and helm for better gear and more Ehp. I.e. witching hour and a nice stormcrow. These would really add to your dps and with stormcrow add a ton of survivability. Not only that because of the added Apoc you might get away with dropping astral presence and you could add something else instead. Also I would place a high priority on finding a Lifesteal skorn instead of a ignore durability. In fact with your current gear I would say that is probably the best possible upgrade that could be found for your character.
Edited by Harrowing#1449 on 11/1/2012 2:13 PM PDT
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I think some of the explanations here are pretty good, but I'll try from a different angle.

Every weapon comes with a +X type of damage. This can be fire, lightning, arcane, poison, physical. "Black Weapons" are really just weapons that have +Physical damage.

If an item has an affix that reads, "Adds Y% to X damage", it only adds the Y% if the weapon has the same X damage OR if it has physical damage.

I believe the math is like this:

Scenario 1:
You have a wand that does 200 to 300 Lightning damage.
You have an item that "Adds 5% to Lightning damage"
The wands Lightning damage is now 210 to 315.

Scenario 2:
You have a wand that does 200 to 300 Lightning damage.
You have a tritium that adds 5/5/5 elemental.
Only the 5% to lightning applies so the wands lightning damage now does 210 to 315.

Scenario 3:
You have a wand that does 200 to 300 Physical damage
You have a trium that adds 5/5/5 elemental
Each elemental damage is added for a total of 15% additional Physical damage, 231.5 to 345.

Again, this is just my elementary understanding as to why "Black" weapons benefit more from multiple elemental damage buffs.


that is so wrong.
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I know people will never get it, and I don't know why I try but...

When you see Zuni boots, SoJ, Triumverate, Tal's ammy, please read them as this:
Adds 7% <IGNORE THIS TEXT BECAUSE IT IS CONFUSING YOU>

Ignore the element, ignore the wording, they don't mean anything to you.

Adds 7% DPS if you have a black weapon, less if you don't.

THAT IS ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW, really, it is that simple.
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I know people will never get it, and I don't know why I try but...

When you see Zuni boots, SoJ, Triumverate, Tal's ammy, please read them as this:
Adds 7% <IGNORE THIS TEXT BECAUSE IT IS CONFUSING YOU>

Ignore the element, ignore the wording, they don't mean anything to you.

Adds 7% DPS if you have a black weapon, less if you don't.

THAT IS ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW, really, it is that simple.


Shaggy, I find your post helpful and just for confirmation for my monk:

Won Khim Lau:
Adds 5% to lightning damage = adds 5% damage to a black weapon (my other one that is)
Lightning skills deal 21% more damage = 21 % more damage to my skills alone.

Is this correct?
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Shaggy, I find your post helpful and just for confirmation for my monk:

Won Khim Lau:
Adds 5% to lightning damage = adds 5% damage to a black weapon (my other one that is)
Lightning skills deal 21% more damage = 21 % more damage to my skills alone.

Is this correct?


yes
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