Diablo® III

SEISMIC SLAM - IN DEPTH RUNE ANALYSES

01/10/2013 01:32 PMPosted by Orion
If you are willing to use Into The Fray, you will find yourself generating fury much faster to start slamming.

couldn't have said it better myself.

01/10/2013 01:32 PMPosted by Orion
aftershocks of Rumble is spread out over 2 seconds and you do an additional 2 procs (of Into The Fray and LoH) in that 2 seconds. So although Rumble returns more Fury and LoH, you actually have to wait 2 seconds to get the full benefit. If you have faster attack speed, you will have more Rumble effects underneath the mobs at the same time, returning Fury and LoH faster.

This appears to be why rumble is so good.

But, Mr. Orion, can you compare Strength from Earth vs Rumble?
My attack speed during Wrath (and I'm 99% in Wrath during a run) is around 3.5 APS.
For smaller sized mobs and one-to-a-few elites, I find Strength from Earth easier to spam. The 30 fury cost of Rumble is quite a bit especially because of my stacked attack speed.
Currently, my technique is to alternate Weapon Throw's periodically (as I have -10 fury WT's, they only cost 1 fury and NoEscape+IntoTheFray = 14+15=29-1= 28 fury generated per crit (and my crit chance is almost 70% in wrath).
So, my slams and weapon throws basically become a blur.
Now, with Strength from Earth, I don't have to alternate WT's nearly as much.

Opinions?
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01/10/2013 01:32 PMPosted by Orion
Finally, IAS helps a lot more than you think. With faster attack speed, you not just return Fury faster with Into The Fray, but it also helps you maintain the Knockback effect on mobs. The aftershocks of Rumble is spread out over 2 seconds and you do an additional 2 procs (of Into The Fray and LoH) in that 2 seconds. So although Rumble returns more Fury and LoH, you actually have to wait 2 seconds to get the full benefit. If you have faster attack speed, you will have more Rumble effects underneath the mobs at the same time, returning Fury and LoH faster.

100% agreed.
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But, Mr. Orion, can you compare Strength from Earth vs Rumble?
My attack speed during Wrath (and I'm 99% in Wrath during a run) is around 3.5 APS.
For smaller sized mobs and one-to-a-few elites, I find Strength from Earth easier to spam. The 30 fury cost of Rumble is quite a bit especially because of my stacked attack speed.
Currently, my technique is to alternate Weapon Throw's periodically (as I have -10 fury WT's, they only cost 1 fury and NoEscape+IntoTheFray = 14+15=29-1= 28 fury generated per crit (and my crit chance is almost 70% in wrath).
So, my slams and weapon throws basically become a blur.
Now, with Strength from Earth, I don't have to alternate WT's nearly as much.

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wow, i just tried out rumble. with a small to large mob, i can perma this skill, pretty wicked.
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01/10/2013 08:14 PMPosted by SuperJJ
wow, i just tried out rumble. with a small to large mob, i can perma this skill, pretty wicked.


now imagine superstacking them with 3.0 aps
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If you are willing to use Into The Fray, you will find yourself generating fury much faster to start slamming.

couldn't have said it better myself.

aftershocks of Rumble is spread out over 2 seconds and you do an additional 2 procs (of Into The Fray and LoH) in that 2 seconds. So although Rumble returns more Fury and LoH, you actually have to wait 2 seconds to get the full benefit. If you have faster attack speed, you will have more Rumble effects underneath the mobs at the same time, returning Fury and LoH faster.

This appears to be why rumble is so good.

But, Mr. Orion, can you compare Strength from Earth vs Rumble?
My attack speed during Wrath (and I'm 99% in Wrath during a run) is around 3.5 APS.
For smaller sized mobs and one-to-a-few elites, I find Strength from Earth easier to spam. The 30 fury cost of Rumble is quite a bit especially because of my stacked attack speed.
Currently, my technique is to alternate Weapon Throw's periodically (as I have -10 fury WT's, they only cost 1 fury and NoEscape+IntoTheFray = 14+15=29-1= 28 fury generated per crit (and my crit chance is almost 70% in wrath).
So, my slams and weapon throws basically become a blur.
Now, with Strength from Earth, I don't have to alternate WT's nearly as much.

Opinions?


If comparing Strength from Earth vs Rumble, in an extreme situation where you have infinite Fury, then Rumble will always be better, as it does more damage for the same attack with the same attack speed. But we don't have infinite fury, so comes the question whether you can sustain the fury for Rumble, if you can, Rumble will still be better. Whether Rumble can be sustained depends on the mob size. At your Crit Chance, you can sustain Strength From Earth with a 4.29 mob size and Rumble with a 8.58 mob size from the initial slam (not factoring in the additional fury return from the Rumble aftershocks as that will make the calculations more complex).

But if you're talking about getting the full benefit of Rumble and it's aftershocks and assuming the mob stays in the aftershock area the whole 2 secs without dying, a mob size of 2.86 will return you 30 fury enough for one Rumble slam, but you have to wait 2 secs for it, so it's actually not sustainable.

The above is just some number stuff for your consideration, in actual game play, the bigger the mob the better for Rumble, very obvious point. Problem is although your attack speed is fast, Rumble aftershocks still operates at 1 proc per second which means you run out of fury faster before the additional procs return fury for you. The faster your attack speed, the more likely this will happen for the first second when you start engaging a smaller mob. Maybe that's why you find SFE better.

In my guide, I wrote something like choose SFE if you find yourself killing mobs and elites in about 3 seconds. In your case, if you find SFE is better for your attack speed vs a small mob size, then you can use that. But I still think SS should be used more for AOE which means its meant for larger mobs, and Weapon Throw to handle the single or few targets that are left. With your -10 fury for WT, I think generating fury for Rumble is not a problem and will definitely be better when you need the additional damage on huge mobs at higher MP level.
Edited by Orion#6600 on 1/11/2013 1:20 AM PST
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Oh and just call me Orion, Mr Orion sounds so formal lol.
Edited by Orion#6600 on 1/11/2013 1:42 AM PST
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Thanks for the information guys. Very helpful tips. I understand your builds and I know why you are using Into the Fray etc. I look at a lot of different builds on this site to get tips and Into the Fray is in almost every build. What are your thoughts on using Strength from Earth instead of Rumble - or just Shattered Ground with Into the Fray? And perhaps Unforgiving - probably my biggest problem is just the loss of fury over time moving from mob to mob as my movespeed is so slow.

EDIT: Sorry didnt see the in depth analysis of SFE vs Rumble posted above.
Edited by Magneto#1397 on 1/11/2013 7:07 AM PST
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Also, how does the Rumble effect work on mobs. Do the rumbles follow the cursor as just an "visual effect" with the actual damage occurring where the seismic slam was? Or does the dmg of Rumble follow the cursor move visually - meaning I can proc Rumble anywhere I move my cursor too? I have a little confusion about this based on earlier posts.
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@Magneto

I would like to point you to my guide on Seismic Slam Builds here:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7320262273

I explain some stuff on the use of Strength from Earth vs Rumble and my thoughts on other runes along, as well as different builds and gameplay videos.

Hope this helps.

@Castablanca

I hope you don't mind me posting the link to my guide here, just trying to help him. If you do, let me know and I will remove it. :)
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The guide looks great, thanks. Will read at lunch.
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01/11/2013 01:12 AMPosted by Orion
In my guide, I wrote something like choose SFE if you find yourself killing mobs and elites in about 3 seconds. In your case, if you find SFE is better for your attack speed vs a small mob size, then you can use that. But I still think SS should be used more for AOE which means its meant for larger mobs, and Weapon Throw to handle the single or few targets that are left. With your -10 fury for WT, I think generating fury for Rumble is not a problem and will definitely be better when you need the additional damage on huge mobs at higher MP level.

This means that Rumble is better in almost every aspect over Strength from Earth.
Thanks for the in-depth analysis.

My next question is more speculative in nature. Shattered Ground vs Stagger in PvP:
I'm planning on using Throwing Hammer (stun throw) for near perma-stun in PvP.
Therefore, I think Shattered Ground might be better since it actually adds noticeable knockback to Elites, whereas all other runes of Slam don't have detectable knockback to elites). I'm assuming PvP will be treated as Elites. Which do you think is better?
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01/11/2013 07:09 AMPosted by Orion
I hope you don't mind me posting the link to my guide here, just trying to help him. If you do, let me know and I will remove it. :)


Dude, I love your thread. If anything, I should apologize for making a redundant thread.
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I hope you don't mind me posting the link to my guide here, just trying to help him. If you do, let me know and I will remove it. :)


Dude, I love your thread. If anything, I should apologize for making a redundant thread.


Nah, this is not redundant, good discussion here. :)

SFE is still good for very low MP levels btw.

Replied you in my thread.
Edited by Orion#6600 on 1/11/2013 3:28 PM PST
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Nah, this is not redundant, good discussion here. :)

SFE is still good for very low MP levels btw.

Replied you in my thread.

thanks bro
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When reading all the caps I thought I´d find some game mechanics info, for example why seismic slam takes 77 frames per slam at 1.00 aps which makes it the slowest Barb skill but I guess I was wrong...
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